The Instigator
PeacefulChaos
Pro (for)
Losing
23 Points
The Contender
Hardcore.Pwnography
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

In a fight, Voldemort and Dumbledore would beat Megatron and Optimus Prime.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+7
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
Hardcore.Pwnography
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/22/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,025 times Debate No: 19442
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (55)
Votes (9)

 

PeacefulChaos

Pro

I thank in advance to whoever accepts this challenge.

Burden of Proof:

I must prove the full resolution, which is, "In a fight, Voldemort and Dumbledore would beat Megatron and Optimus Prime."

My opponent must negate the full resolution and prove, "In a fight, Megatron and Optimus Prime would beat Voldemort and Dumbledore."

Rules:

1. There will be no abuse of semantics, loopholes, wordplay, etc.

2. I ask that the person who accepts this knows a little about Harry Potter and Transformers, as these are where the characters are coming from. This is not a required rule, but it is something that would be useful to have in this debate.

3. We will be assuming that all characters will be using the full extent of their powers.

4. Voldemort will be armed with his normal wand, and Dumbledore will be armed with his elder wand. Optimus Prime will be armed with his sword and gun, whereas Megatron will be armed with Optimus Prime's axe and gun.

5. Each character can only use their weapons that are listed above.

6. We will be assuming that the characters will be putting aside their past differences and will work together.

7. The first round will be for acceptance and clarification only.

8. Have fun!

With that said, I hand over the next round to my opponent.
Hardcore.Pwnography

Con

Challenge accepted!

Both Dumbledore and Voldemort are dead, so I assume my opponent means that they will be magically revived and able to fight.

Alright there are things I want to clarify:

Are the forbidden spells allowed to be used?
How long will the fight last? Is it a fight to the death?
If it's a fight to the death, technically Megatron and Optimus Prime cannot die since they are not actual living beings, just machines, so please clarify this point for me.

Will allies be allowed to be called on?
Where will this fight take place?

Thanks to Pro for answering my questions.
Debate Round No. 1
PeacefulChaos

Pro


I will gladly answer my opponent’s questions.



1. Yes, the forbidden spells are allowed. Please note that rule three already indirectly answers this question.



2. I suppose you could say it is a fight to “the death”. If it wasn’t, then that would limit Megatron and Optimus, since it’s kind of hard to K.O a wizard without killing him.



3. They will fight until they destroy one another. You can destroy something that is not alive, so this should resolve the conflict.



4. No.



5. The battle will take place on earth. To be more specific, it will take place in a city. It doesn’t really matter which city they’re fighting in.



All right, now I will get on with my arguments!



1. Dumbledore and Voldemort can use the spell stupefy to harm their opponents.



It is common knowledge among most Harry Potter fans that the spell “stupefy” is used to stun or knock someone out. Optimus and Megatron, being giant robots constructed from metal, won’t be bothered by such a small spell. However, that is assuming that a normal wizard is using this spell on them. Remember that both Voldemort and Dumbledore are some of the most powerful wizards of all time; therefore, the spells they cast would exceed that of the average wizard. Proof of this lies in the fourth book, when Dumbledore casts the spell, “stupefy” right before Barty Crouch (in the appearance of Alastor Moody) was about to cast a spell on Harry Potter. Dumbledore managed to not only to blast the door that was standing in his way apart, but also hit his intended target—Barty Crouch.



Had any other wizard used this spell on the door, it simply would have glanced off. At best, it would have left a scorch mark or perhaps a small dent. However, Dumbledore, being one of the most powerful wizards of all time, managed to blast the door into splinters and still hit his target. This goes to show that when Dumbledore uses the spell “stupefy”, it is the equivalent of a small explosion. Likewise, it is only logical to conclude that Voldemort could also cast the spell with the same affects, if not better. Therefore, if Dumbledore and Voldemort chose to use these spells on Optimus and Megatron, it would do significant damage if Voldemort and Dumbledore aimed at their heads.



2. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use the spell “reducto” to harm their opponents.



I have proved in my other argument that the spells the two wizards cast exceed that of the normal wizard. When a normal wizard casts, “reducto”, it is usually the equivalent of a small-medium explosion. However, when Dumbledore and Voldemort cast this spell, it is probable that the spell is the equivalent of a big-huge explosion. Thus, it would be immensely useful in battle, since several big-huge explosions would tear Optimus and Megatron apart.



3. Dumbledore and Voldemort can apparate.



In case there are those who have no idea what apparating is, it is when a wizard teleports himself/herself to another area. This will be another extremely important factor in battle. With the ability to teleport, Voldemort and Dumbledore could easily dodge any attacks Megatron and Optimus throws at them. At the same time, it let’s them hide in areas where the two alien robots would not expect to find them. Then, when the time is right, they could use a spell and apparate yet again. This tactic will wear Megatron and Optimus down until they are nothing more than heaps of metal.



4. The wielder and owner of the elder wand cannot be defeated in a duel [1].



Dumbledore, who is both the wielder and owner of the elder wand, cannot be defeated in a duel; therefore, even if Voldemort happened to die, Dumbledore would be unbeatable as long as he had the wand within his possession. As a result, Megatron and Optimus are extremely likely to lose, since they cannot possibly beat Dumbledore as long as he had the wand within his possession.



5. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use the spell “Petrificus Totalus” to disable their enemies.



Petrificus Totalus”, also known as the full body-bind curse, would be an easy way for the wizards to win this fight. I realize that Megatron and Optimus are huge, so it will take more than one shot to make them freeze in place; however, because the two wizards are so powerful, one shot of “Petrificus Totalus” will probably freeze an arm or a leg. If this is the case, then Voldemort and Dumbledore could have both their enemies’ arms rendered useless in seconds; thus, the robots can no longer use their weapons. Once they have done so, they can work on the rest of their bodies and within a minute, Megatron and Optimus will simply be unmoving hunks of metal. Afterward, they could work away at the two robots as they please.



6. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use a transfiguration spell of some kind on their opponents.



It would be too much to hope that the wizards could some how turn Optimus Prime into a harmless bunny rabbit; however, it isn’t too much to hope to turn Optimus Prime’s gun or sword into a harmless bunny rabbit. Alternatively, they could use a vanishing spell to make it disappear completely, leaving Optimus with no weapons (not including himself). Likewise, they could do the same to Megatron. On the other hand, they could use a vanishing/transfiguration spell of some kind on the body parts of Optimus and Megatron (i.e. change a foot into a rock, change a hand into nothing, change the head into a bomb, etc.). That last example should be particularly useful when battling the two robots.



7. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use “fiendfyre” on their opponents to destroy them.



Fiendfyre” is an extremely powerful type of fire that is made from Dark Magic [2]. The fire will pursue anything for more fuel and seems to incinerate anything through mere contact. Thus, Voldemort and Dumbledore could have Megatron and Optimus Prime trapped within the burning city and then apparate safely away. Should the two alien robots attempt to stop the flames, it is extremely likely they would fail. This is because “fiendfyre” cannot be put out like a normal fire would. One of the only known ways stop the fire is to get the caster to make it go away. Another way is if a different wizard counters the fire or attempts to put it out. Because Megatron and Optimus are neither the casters of this fire nor wizards, they are very likely to die within seconds after the fire had been cast.



Conclusion:



I have shown a variety of ways in which Voldemort and Dumbledore could disarm/attack/evade Megatron and Optimus Prime so that the two wizards would triumph over the two robots.



I’m intrigued to see what my opponent has in mind for my arguments and for his own. I wish him luck and hope he does not underestimate the wizards’ powers! Just as Optimus Prime once said, “Like us, there’s more to them than meets the eye”.




[1] http://harrypotter.wikia.com...



[2] http://harrypotter.wikia.com...


Hardcore.Pwnography

Con

Thanks PeacefulChaos for presenting the arguments.
However all these arguments are deeply flawed, and I'll tell you why in my rebuttal:

1. Dumbledore and Voldemort can use the spell stupefy to harm their opponents.

This is a projectile spell. In comparison to Optimus or Megatron's body, the size is very small. This means that they can easily dodge it by moving their head to the right or ducking. On a normal wizard, this would be much harder to dodge as the size of the spell is much larger in comparison to his body. Also, Optimus or Megatron's laser beams are a lot faster than any projectile, as lasers move at the speed of light, so they can kill the wizards even before the projectile hits them. So we see that it is obvious that any projectile spell will not work on Optimus or Megatron.

PeacefulChaos also says that "Dumbledore managed to not only to blast the door that was standing in his way apart". Although this is not directly related to the debate, I want to point out that the spell itself did not blast the door, it was the force of the spell's projection. For example, if you threw a really heavy object, that could also blast apart the door. So we see that my opponent's line of reasoning that Dumbledore is much stronger makes no sense, since it is not the spell itself that blasts apart the door, its the physics of it. The magic is actually the same strength as any other wizard, its just the force of the projection. So if this puny spell even manages to hit Optimus or Megatron, it would not do any harm, as I doubt this would even budge them, as they probably weight thousands of tonnes.

2. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use the spell �€œreducto�€� to harm their opponents.

I am fairly certain that this is also a projectile spell, and following the same line of reasoning as rebuttal 1, this would not work. Please point out otherwise if this is not a projectile. It's been a while since I've read or watched Harry Potter. Even if it is not, I want to remind viewers on the size of Megatron and Optimus. Perhaps this spell would work on smaller objects, but not on larger objects such as these.

3. Dumbledore and Voldemort can apparate.

Not a big deal, as my opponent said this fight takes place in a city (meaning that they cannot apparate outside of it, because then it would be breaking the rules), Megatron and Optimus can both level the city with lasers and missiles so that there are no places to hide. In fact, Megatron has a fusion cannon that can level a city block in one blast. [1] Likely, in the process of leveling, Dumbledore and Voldemort will be hurt as well.

4. The wielder and owner of the elder wand cannot be defeated in a duel [1].

I must stress that this rule means that they cannot be defeated in a MAGICAL duel. The wizards have never experienced lasers or missiles, so it is logical that this rule does not apply to lasers or missiles. Megatron and Optimus can easily blow Voldemort or Dumbledore up.

5. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use the spell �€œPetrificus Totalus�€� to disable their enemies.

Once again, if this is a projectile spell, it would be easy to dodge.

6. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use a transfiguration spell of some kind on their opponents.

No, that would not work. My opponent says himself: "It would be too much to hope that the wizards could some how turn Optimus Prime into a harmless bunny rabbit". The guns are a part of the robot's bodies! There is proof of this when they transform into vehicles. The weapons seem to disappear, but when they transform back, it always reappears in their hands. So it is logical to assume that although the guns may not be attached to the body, it is part of the body. Even if they are not, Megatron and Optimus could just as easily crush the wizards just by stepping on them or throwing cars on them. As with changing a body part to an object, it is logical to assume that this is difficult to do as the robots are not living things and are objects, and it is difficult to focus this on one part of the object and not another part.

7. Dumbledore and Voldemort could use �€œfiendfyre�€� on their opponents to destroy them.

Okay first they cannot apparate safely away as the fight is set in the city. I specifically asked this question for this reason. So, if they choose to use fiendfyre on the city, then the wizards will also be trapped. As the robots are big hunks of metal and the humans are just flesh, the wizards will die much faster. Also, I must remind PeacefulChaos that Optimus and Megatron can both fly, so they can just fly out of the fire's reach. The wizards do not have broom sticks as it was not included in the weapons in the beginning, so they do not have the same ability.

Now that I effectively destroyed all my opponents arguments, I will move onto my own arguments. Sorry for the formatting, I don't know how to bold or italicize, can someone please explain that to me? Thanks.

Alright Argument Time.

1. Megatron can shoot lasers from his eyes and electrical blasts from his hands [1]

As I said before, lasers move at the speed of light. This means that Megatron has the ability to kill both Dumbledore and Voldemort from a laser blast. It will also be impossible to dodge because they move at the speed of light.

2. Megatron and Optimus can both move much faster than Dumbledore or Voldemort.

This is a major factor because with the speed, it will be difficult to hit Megatron or Optimus. Likewise, it is much easier to attack Dumbledore or Voldemort because they move much faster. Although apparation is a possibility, it takes time to cast and Megatron can just blast them with a laser beam. Or if he misses, they can level the entire city.

I really only have 2 arguments, but I've destroyed all of my opponents arguments.
It is obvious that Optimus and Megatron can defeat Voldemort and Dumbledore as they are bigger, faster, and stronger. The only thing going for Voldemort or Dumbledore is their magic spells, but a lot of the spells are projectiles that could easily be dodged. Even if they are not projectiles, it is not certain whether they would even work on a non-living robot. Without spells, Voldemort or Dumbledore are useless, and they could easily be killed.

That's why you should vote CON.
Also, because I have an amazing name.
That is all.

SOURCES:
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
PeacefulChaos

Pro

I thank my opponent for his quick response, and I will now address his rebuttals.

My Opponent’s Rebuttals:

1. My opponent’s main argument here is that Megatron and Optimus can easily dodge any projectile spells thrown at them, since they are so small. However, small projectiles have proven to be useful when battling Decepticons [3]. In the video, please take note that Starscream did not manage to dodge the grappling hook that Sam had shot at him. The grappling hook in question is smaller, slower, and less powerful than the spell we are discussing; therefore, the magic that Dumbledore and Voldemort use would still be effective and is likely to hit Megatron and Optimus. Moreover, if Sam can hit Starscream with a weapon he has never used, then the two wizards who have had more than half their lifetime handling wands can hit the two robots.

In addition, spells travel at the speed of light [4]. This is based off the fact that most spells cast are described/seen as, “a flash of bright light went past me”. Wizards can counter spells that move at the speed of light. An example of this lies in the fighting scene between the Death Eaters and the Order of the Phoenix [5]. There are a plethora of bright lights and flashes, all of which Harry and others manage to block/counter/dodge and remain alive. This leads us to believe that wizards have the reaction time of light speed. Now, Dumbledore and Voldemort, being some of the most powerful wizards of all time, can do just as well, if not better. Here is a fight between the two wizards in which they shoot bolts of magic at each other [6]. The main part of the video that I want you to watch is from 39 seconds to 52 seconds. Voldemort attempts to overcome Dumbledore, and in the process several bolts of magic head in Harry’s direction. Look at how fast they move and the how they affect the wall where Harry is. They take out several huge chunks from the wall and they move at what appears to be the speed of lightning. As you can see, Dumbledore and Voldemort have the reaction time equal to the speed of light. Thus, they can dodge any lasers that Megatron or Optimus throws at them. In addition, since the spells themselves move at the speed of light, combined with the facts that I provided in my first paragraph, it is extremely likely that the spells will hit the two robots.

2. Here my opponent bases his reasons off the first rebuttal he made; however, I proved that his line of reasoning incorrect. In addition, a big-huge explosion would certainly do good damage to Optimus and Megatron, as shown in Transformers 3 Dark of the Moon. A specific example is when Sam was battling Starscream. He put an explosive in Starscream’s head that created a big-huge explosion, essentially destroying the robot.

3. While they cannot apparate out of the city, that doesn’t change the fact that they can apparate to dodge the two robots’ attacks. In addition, my opponent explains that Megatron can level a whole city block, not the whole city. Thus, Voldemort and Dumbledore can be in a different part of the city when Megatron fires his fusion cannon. Even if there are no buildings to hide behind, Voldemort and Dumbledore can use the disillusionment charm to make themselves invisible.

4. My opponent attempts to throw this point away by arguing that the elder wand only works in magical duels. However, the story of how the elder wand came to be says otherwise. The eldest of the brothers simply asked for a wand that must always win duels for its owner [1]. Nowhere does it state that it must always win magical duels for its owner.

However, in case some view this as a semantic argument, let’s assume that the elder wand can only be used in a magical duel. Even if this is the case, the elder wand is still the most powerful wand in existence; therefore, Optimus and Megatron will find it difficult (although not impossible) to defeat Dumbledore.

5. I don’t think this is a projectile spell.

6. When claiming it would be too much to hope that Dumbledore could turn Optimus into a harmless bunny rabbit, I was referring to Optimus’s whole body. In addition, changing a non-living thing would be much simpler than changing a living thing into something else. In fact, in Hogwarts, they start with non-living objects, since they are simpler than living beings [7]. Moreover, Dumbledore and Voldemort don’t even have to change the whole body of the robots, they only have to change part of it. Thus, it would be quite easy to transform Megatron’s head into a bomb. Alternatively, they could use a conjuration spell, in which you bring things into being. So, if turning Optimus’s head into a bomb doesn’t work, then you could always implant a C4 on his head. That should give Optimus a headache that no amount of Aspirin will cure.

7. While Dumbledore and Voldemort cannot apparate out of the city, they can still control the fire [2]. The two wizards could bend the fire to their will and make it attack the two robots. In addition, while Megatron can fly, Optimus cannot. In the beginning, I stated which weapons the two robots could have. Unfortunately for Optimus, his trailer (which contains many of his weapons, including his jet pack that enables him to fly) was not included in this battle. Thus, Optimus cannot fly.

However, Voldemort and Dumbledore can fly. In the seventh book, Harry saw Voldemort coming after him and Hagrid by flying. No, he wasn’t flying on a broom. He was simply flying through magic. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that Dumbledore himself could fly without a broom, since his powers are near to equal (if not greater) than Voldemort’s. Not to mention that he has the most powerful wand in existence.

All right, now that I have successfully rebuilt my arguments, I shall refute my opponent’s points.

Rebuttals:

My opponent: “It will also be impossible to dodge because they move at the speed of light.”

I have already proved that the two wizards’ reaction times are equal to the speed of light; therefore, they can easily dodge the laser.

My opponent: “Megatron and Optimus can both move much faster than Dumbledore or Voldemort.”

This is not necessarily true. First, Voldemort and Dumbledore can apparate. Despite your claim that it takes time to cast, it simply requires the flick of the wand or the slight turning of the body.

Second, as I have shown in the battle between the Death Eaters and the Order of the Phoenix, wizards can move at extremely fast speeds without apparating. Notice how the Order of the Phoenix move swiftly in their light forms.

Before concluding, I have one more argument that I would like to present.

8. Dumbledore and Voldemort can use the spell “confundo” to confuse their enemies.

The spell confundo is a spell that causes a person or animated object to become confused, befuddled, and prone to following simple orders without thinking about of them [8]. In case my opponent is wondering, it will work on the two robots since it also affects animated objects. Thus, it can certainly be used on Megatron and Optimus. Once the two wizards have made the two robots helplessly confused, they can order them to tear each other apart.

Conclusion:

I have shown how Dumbledore and Voldemort have reaction times of the speed of light, and most of their spells move at the speed of light as well. Thus, all the spells will be affective on Optimus and Megatron.

Besides, Dumbledore has the greatest power of all. It’s a power far greater than Voldemort’s, Megatron’s, and even Optimus’s combined. It is the power of love! (I know, it’s cheesy, right?)

[3]

[4] http://fanfiction.mugglenet.com...

[5]

[6]

[7] http://harrypotter.wikia.com...

[8] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Hardcore.Pwnography

Con

I must also remind viewers that movies are not a very reliable source. Movies tend to exaggerate certain abilitiies and aspects in order to make a more epic and interesting show. However, I will concede to PeacefulChaos's sources.

I will go on to refute my opponent's weak attempts at a refutation.

Refutation:

1.
My opponent seems to forget that in the video he provided, Starscream is trying to find Sam, meaning that he does not see him. This means Starscream was not paying attention to the grappling hook, as he did not see it, as he could not see Sam. All this proves is that Sam is good at not being noticed and hiding. You could be the best at dodging things, but if you do not notice something coming towards you, you will be unable to dodge it. I must also remind my opponent that this fight is Megatron and Optimus vs. Dumbledore and Voldemort. It is logical to assume that Starscream is weaker than Megatron and Optimus, as Megatron leads the decepticons and Optimus is just as strong as Megatron if not stronger. Also with the fight against Dumbledore and Voldemort, Megatron and Optimus will be solely focused on them. If they try to hide like Sam, Megatron and Optimus can easily level the city, and I will prove this later on in my refutations. My opponent also thinks that "small projectiles have proven to be useful when battling Decepticons". Please take a look at the video again. The grappling hook does not seem to cause any damage, Starscream is just annoyed of it and trying to shake Sam off. Much like a mosquito bite on a human does not cause any damage, it's just annoying. So we see that the robots will be able to dodge projectiles, and even if they do hit, it will do be no more than an annoying mosquito bite. Therefore, my point of reasoning still stands how it would be easily dodged.

My opponent also seems to think that spells travel at the speed of light. In the source he provided, http://fanfiction.mugglenet.com..., it is unanimous that the spell cannot move at the speed of light, as then the wizards are unable to dodge it. Wizards are after all, just humans with magical abilities, they do not have increased physical ability. Let me ask you something. Can you and I dodge things that move at the speed of light? No. Now, if I had could cast spells would I be able to? No, because it will not give me enhanced physical abilitiy. I admit that the wizards do have better than average reaction time, as they have been countering and dodging spell their entire life, but it is impossible to have a reaction time faster than the speed of light. That does not even remotely make sense. At least read the sources you provide, PeacefulChaos. Viewers, this shows how PeacefulChaos is just placing random websites to gain your source vote, while I actually read the websites I provide. Everyone there agrees with this line of reasoning: that the spells seem to be energy forms, but cannot move faster than 200mph as then they would be undodgeable. As with wizards having the reaction time of speed? Wizards do not have enhanced physical abilities. After all, they are essentially just humans who can cast spells.

My opponent tries to prove the speed of the spell with another video. Sure, they look fast, but in reality, how fast can they be? As a said, movies tend to exaggerate effects to make it look more epic. These spells cannot move faster than light, as they would be undodgeable. Wizards do not have enhanced physical abilitiy! So we see that my point still stands, about how laser beams move faster than the spell, meaning that the robots can kill the wizards much faster, as well as being undodgeable. Futhermore, wizards will be unable to counter lasers, because their wands are built to counter spells, not pure energy forms, and it is logical to assume that this is not within their capability. So this argument falls and my opponent's rebuttal does not hold water.

2. As this rebuttal is related to the first one, I have essentially already refuted this. Let me remind my opponent that placing an explosive on someone's head is very different from using the spell reducto. First, that would be impossible to dodge. Second, the explosive would do much more damage as it is placing on your head. Therefore, opponent's line of reasoning is incorrect when he tries to compare the spell reducto with placing an explosive on someone's head. These cannot be compared as they are very different things.

3. I must remind my opponent that Megatron can level a whole city block in one blast. And that's just Megatron. We're forgetting about Optimus, and since they are of around equal strength, it is logical to assume that he has the same ability. My opponent uses this line of reasoning all the time with Voldemort and Dumbledore.

This means that Megatron and Optimus can level 2 city blocks with one blast each. Both Optimus and Megatron have unlimited ammo, as they have never had the need to reload or recharge, so it is logical to assume so. Also, the guns do not fire normal bullets, but instead seem to get their ammo from a different source.

What does apparating to a different part of the city do to advance the fight? Nothing really. Megatron and Optimus can just wait until Voldemort and Dumbledore show up again. Or they can hide as well by transforming and blending in with other vehicles, and this results in a stalemate. I must remind my opponent that Optimus and Megatron are seasoned war general, so he has a lot of strategy and knows exactly what to do. Both Voldemort and Dumbledore do not have as much experience in war as Megatron and Optimus do. Optimus and Megatron have been fighting for hundreds of years, in comparison to Voldemort and Dumbledore who have at most 40 years of experience, with most of that time spent on learning new spells not war strategy. Therefore, there is no need to run around trying to find them as my opponent suggests. Also, my opponent has agreed that apparating takes time to cast. As nothing is faster than the speed of light, the laser will hit the wizards before they can complete their spell.

4. Note how my opponent has conceded this point to me. He agrees that Optimus and Megatron can defeat Dumbledore. The robots can just team up on Voldemort, who does not have the elder wand, then team up on Dumbledore later.

The crux of this argument is that wands are really powerful. But what really can a wand do? Deflect spells and cast spells. As a said in my first rebuttal, lasers are not spells. Therefore, it is logical to assume that wands cannot counter lasers. If they try, the laser will just burn through the wood of the wand. My opponent may argue that the wand can deflect explosive spells, etc., but I must remind my opponent that guns and lasers are not the same as spells. So this argument is defeated, just by saying that, yes, the wand is super powerful in deflecting spells, but is it really in deflecting bullets, missiles and lasers? No.

5. Okay fine, as the name if Petrificus Totalus suggests, it probably petrifies a person. I guess the real question here is: can an object be petrified? No, because it is not a living thing. As this spell has never been used on an object, we must assume that it does not work on an object. Therefore, it would not work on non-living things like the robots.

6. Things cannot be created out of nothing: http://harrypotter.wikia.com...'s_Law_of_Elemental_Transfiguration So we see that the C4 example does not work. What I meant was the robot's parts are attached, so it would be difficult to transform part of an object. In fact, never has only part of an object been transfigured before, it has always been an entire object. So in this case, the entire object (robot) must be transformed rather than just a part, as it is not a living being. e.g. transforming only the buttons on a calculator, and not the entire thing.

Sorry, but I will have to end here as I have ran out of space.
Debate Round No. 3
PeacefulChaos

Pro

Rebuttals:

All right, most of this debate has narrowed down to whether or not wizards have the reaction time equal to the speed of light. Thus, if I manage to prove this, I ultimately win this debate, since it would counter both of my opponent’s arguments and render many of his rebuttals useless.

In the source that discusses what speed spells move at, it is unanimous that spells should move at the speed of light. They have every reason to believe so; however, one factor keeps arising that leads people to believe spells cannot move at the speed of light—the fact that wizards themselves cannot move at the speed of light.

I would like to point out that neither Megatron nor Optimus have ever shown any capabilities of being able to move at the speed of light, yet they have managed to dodge and block laser blasts that are shot at them. Thus, unless there is other evidence suggesting these two robots can move at the speed of light, we must assume that the lasers Megatron and Optimus shoot cannot move at the speed of light. Otherwise, they and other transformers would never have been able to dodge and block lasers shot at them. It is the same situation in Star Wars. Human Jedi have managed to block a countless amount of lasers, yet they are only human. There is no logical explanation as to how they are able to react in such a fast way. After all, if we apply my opponent’s reasoning, then we have to assume the lasers in Star Wars also do not move at the speed of light. My opponent’s reasoning went something like this (although, I am formatting it so that it will work with this scenario) - “Can you or I move at the speed of light? The answer is no. Now, if I was able to wield the force does that mean I could move at the speed of light? Again, the answer is no.” As you can see, I simply used my opponent’s reasoning against him. While Megatron and Optimus are both alien robots that can move extremely fast, they have never been able to move at the speed of light. Thus, if my opponent assumes that spells do not move at the speed of light simply because wizards cannot react fast enough, then the same reasoning should apply to the two robots and countless other movies.

To further back my argument that spells can move at the speed of light, I put several sources to demonstrate just how fast spells move. My opponent, however, disregarded my sources as entertainment factors to make the movie look epic. As my opponent does so, he made a statement that struck me as odd. He claimed, “Sure, they look fast, but in reality, how fast can they be?” The problem with this statement is that none of what we are discussing is reality. Tell me, does wizards fighting giant robots with spells that defy several of our scientific laws (as shown in source [4]) sound like reality to you? I think it sounds a bit more like fiction if you ask me.

Moving aside from the obvious, I would like to remind my opponent that there are two main sources of Harry Potter—movies and books. Since my opponent has disregarded the movie sources as unreliable, we shall turn to the origin of Harry Potter. In the books, they always describe a spell as “a flash of light”. It is common knowledge among most people that spells move at the speed of light; thus, wizards have a reaction time equal to that of the speed of light. Otherwise, they would not be able to block and dodge the spells shot at them.

Now that I have successfully defended my point, I shall move on toward the more trivial matters of the debate.

1. Starscream did see Sam. Look at 30 seconds to 45 seconds, he is looking directly at Sam.

Actually, there is reason to believe that spells are just that—pure energy forms [4] (this is not a new source, I already posted it earlier in round two). Thus, because wizards block and cast spells (pure energy forms) on a daily basis, it is logical to assume they can do the same with lasers. In addition, in the fourth book of the Harry Potter series, Voldemort forces Harry to bow down before him. He did not use the imperio curse, but instead Harry describes it as if a giant hand had forced him to bend his back. Thus, Voldemort and Dumbledore could use this strange form of magic to deflect any other projectiles heading toward them.

Now, I would like to point out that while Megatron and Optimus are more powerful than Starscream, Dumbledore and Voldemort are much more powerful than Sam will ever be.

I would now like to direct your attention to my opponent’s statement, “The grappling hook does not seem to cause any damage”. Judging by his pain filled screams in the video, combined with the fact that he was half-blind, leads me to conclude that it had done some significant damage and is not the equivalent of a mosquito biting me. Not to mention the spell stupefy is the equivalent of a small explosion (which does more damage than a grappling hook) when used by Dumbledore and Voldemort.

2. The point of this example was simply to show that a big-huge explosion would be effective against Megatron or Optimus. While you may not be able to dodge the explosive placed on your head, I already explained that both wizards are likely to hit the two robots. In addition, shooting an explosive at one’s head and placing an explosive on one’s are not very different. In fact, they are quite similar, since both are hitting/exploding the head.

3. Optimus does not have the ability to level a whole city block in one blast. Do not forget that Optimus is only armed with his gun and sword. Throughout all the comics, cartoons, and movies, I have never seen Optimus once manage to destroy a whole city block with either of these weapons. Optimus is simply equal to Megatron in the area of fighting, tactics, wisdom, speed, etc. Megatron has a better weapon than Optimus’s normal gun that simply shoots lasers.

I keep stating that apparating would be useful because the two wizards can use this ability to dodge anything thrown at them. I have already explained that wizards have the reaction time equal to the speed of light and can cast spells at the speed of light as well. Not to mention that Voldemort and Dumbledore can hide behind buildings/rubble, fire a spell and apparate yet again.


5. This spell has been used on inferi in the 6th book in the Harry Potter series. Inferi are not alive; thus, this spell can be used on non-living things. Besides, if there is an object that can move, then this spell will work on it, living or not.

6. Who said anything about creating something out of nothing? Please note that on the site I gave about conjuration and transfiguration, it stated that objects can be created into being; however, they will disappear over time. This spell has been used before by Ron’s mother to bring food out of seemingly “nothingness”. Thus, this spell would work.

Now, I would like to point out that it is a beginner’s mistake to turn only part of an object into something else. I am positive Dumbledore and Voldemort can accomplish a beginner’s mistake. In addition, Dumbledore and Voldemort could transform Megatron and Optimus into giant brick walls of the exact same mass if they tried hard enough. Thus, it would be easier than changing something as huge as Optimus into as something as small as a bunny rabbit, since you would be changing him into something of the exact same size. I am sure the two wizards could pull it off, considering they are the most powerful wizards of all time and one of them has the most powerful wand of all time.

Now, in case my opponent attacks my confundo argument, I would like to point out that cunfondo has been used on the Goblet of Fire (a non-living object) in the fourth book by Barty Crouch; thus, it can be used on things such as the two robots.

Conclusion:

This has been a really fun debate and I am sorry for making such hastily made rebuttals, as I have been very busy (staying up until midnight) with work. My opponent has proven to be an excellent debater, and I hope we can have another debate even better than this one!

Hardcore.Pwnography

Con

I will quickly finish off what I couldn't last round:

7: Once again I want to stress on Megatron's laser eyes. If either wizard tries to apparate, the laser will surely hit them before they can, because in order to cast the spell faster than the speed of light, your hands will need to move really fast. In the books, whenever Dumbledore apparates, the book stresses on a casual flick of the wrist. This means that his movements are not faster than light, meaning that the laser will hit him before he is able to apparate. Also, Dumbledore or Voldemort flying is not a big issue since Megatron can simply look up and shoot his lasers. As mentioned before, they can't possibly move faster than the speed of light since then they would have to be a blur, and Harry would not have been able to see Voldemort coming after them.

I will rebuild and refute point 8 with the rest of the points, since they tie together.

The Light Issue:

Why must we assume that the lasers cannot move at the speed of light? Actually, in Volume 2, Chapter 8 of the transformers manga, Bumblebee says specifically that Megatron's lasers move at the speed of light, translated from Japanese, of course. Therefore, Optimus being able to dodge and block lasers are a result of another factor, Maybe Optimus was just lucky, or Megatron was having a bad day. Who knows. The point is, Megatron's laserrs move at the speed of light. And FYI, Megatron is the only transformer who can shoot lasers from his eyes.

My opponent tries to disprove me using Jedi in Star Wars. But I must remind viewers that the Jedi have the force. Many force abilities give them enhanced physical capabiltiy. So yes, they can dodge and block lasers, but they would not be able to if they did not have this force. The wizards do not have this force. Therefore, no enhanced physical ability. Therefore, they can't dodge lasers like the Jedi.

I think you misunderstood my reality argument. What I meant was that in movies, as you use this as a valid source alot, the spells can't move at the speed of light. If they did, they would be a blur, and we would not be able to see them as clearly as we can. I was also assuming that these characters were somehow magically transferred into our world to fight. I apologize. You were not very clear in the first round.

In books they are described as a "flash of light". PeacefulChaos, have you ever heard of figurative language? For example, when I say "I died laughing." Did I really die? No. It is meant as an exageration or a comparision. It is not to be taken for it's literal meaning. Therefore, this does not prove that spells move at the speed of light. In fact, I have already proven that spells do not move at the speed of light, meaning that robots can dodge them, and lasers move at the speed of light, meaning that wizards can't dodge them.

Once again, if wizards moved at the speed of light, we would not be able to see them as they would just be blurs in movies. My opponent has not addressed my enhanced physical ability argument, so I assume that he agrees with me that wizards do not have enhanced physical ability.

In the end, I win on this light issue for the reasons I have stated above. Therefore, as PeacefulChaos says, I should win this debate.

1. That was just a side point. You missed the main crux of my argument. What the main point was Starscream is not as trained as Megatron or Optimus, much like how Ron is not as trained as Dumbledore. This debate isn't even about Starscream so I have no idea why you would bring that up.

As for the Imperio point? Once again, figurative language. A simile in fact. Harry described it "it was like a giant hand was pressing on my back." Not to be taken for it's literal meaning. Therefore, Voldemort or Dumbledore cannot use this to block lasers. As I have already mentioned, lasers also move at the speed of light, as spells do not, so they would not be able to counter them like they can with spells.

I would say that those are screams of frustration. There is no solid evidence to prove that they're pain filled screams, so they could just as easily be screams of frustration. Once again, stupefy is a projectile. Starscream is not as trained as Megatron or Optimus. So they could easily dodge stupefy. My opponent uses the same argument for every point, and my fingers are growing tired of retyping the same rebuttal over and over again.

2. No, that's not true at all. The robots can dodge a projectile spell, where they cannot dodge a placed explosive, although either wizard would not get the opportunity to since these robots are stronger than Starscream. One is instant death, the other is the possibility of death, which is very low in the robot's case. My opponent has not addressed my point that projectile spells are easily dodged and hold no force, so I assume that he agrees with me again.

3. Once again my opponent has not addressed the possibility of a stalemate. The robots can simply wait until the wizards show themselves and then attack. It must happen sooner or later. Once again, look at my first rebuttal. Apparating is not a possibility when Megatron has lasers.

4. My opponent doesn't even attempt to address this rebuttal.

5. The inferi are reanimated dead bodies. From Google Definitions reanimated means: to restore to life or consiousness, to revive. This means that the inferi do have some life, which would explain why Petrificus Totalus works. Robots not alive, so doesn't work.

6. Yes, it is a beginner's mistake when using it on living things not objects, like when, I forget who, but there was someone who turned another person's ears into a pig's ears, when they meant to turn the entire body. When you have objects, you have only 1 part, not like a person, where there are many parts you can transform (i.e. ears, fingers, etc.) You keep saying that the wizards are the most powerful people. But there are limits to power. By your logic, the wizards can turn the entire universe into a brick of the same weight, because you're sure they can pull it off. Does that sound even remotely reasonable? Then why does Voldemort have trouble killing Harry if he has this much power? Easy answer. He doesn't have this much power.

8. You can't compare the goblet to these two robots. They are of different size and purpose. The goblet has one purpose only, so perhaps it is easier to use the confundo spell as a result. The robots have minds of their own, as well as being huge, as well as being not living things. Therefore, it is logical to assume that the confundo spell will not work. I'm sure that if my opponent had the opportunity, he would stress on Voldemort and Dumbledore's power. But like I said in rebuttal 6, what limit is there to their power if they can do anything, it seems? There is always a limit to power. If Voldemort was all powerful, as you say, how come it was so difficult to kill Harry? Why couldn't you turn his wand into a bunny, or change him into a brick, or change his head into a C4, or stupefy, or confundo, or reducto him? It's because there is a limit to power. Therefore, although they are powerful, they will not be able to kill the robots.

Conclusion:

My opponent has not addressed several points. I assume that means he agrees with me.
Therefore, you should vote PRO!

Also, don't vote based on the amount of arguments. A lot of PeacefulChaos's arguments could have been put under one argument. Although I did not have alot of arguments, I have destroyed all of PeacefulChaos's arguments, and my arguments are still valid.

In the end, wizards can't move faster than light, as it's not physically possible.
Spells can't move faster than light because wizards can dodge.
Wizard's can't apparate faster than light because then wouldn't they be able to dodge every spell and never get hit? But in both the books and movies they get hit by spells, that don't move faster than light.
Therefore, lasers will hit wizards.
Therefore, wizards die.

This has been a fun debate. I hope to debate with you, PeacefulChaos in the future.
Debate Round No. 4
55 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Hardcore.Pwnography 5 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
What's up with all these late votes ?
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
I usually do not attack voter's reasons because I believe it to be wrong, but I would like to ask what semantic argument I used.
Posted by Hardcore.Pwnography 5 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
Sorry but i want to ask a favor again.

http://www.debate.org...

Is it possible for you guys to check this debate out and vote? Preferably vote for me, lol. But I just want to bring this debate to your attention. I only ask you to read it and vote fairly, as I believe that I should be winning.

Sorry for the trouble.
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
I only did it because if you remember what I said before is that I gave you a few extra points. Well, I realized that it should be right to give extra points to only you, so I did the even thing and gave you the correct amount of points is all I am saying.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
Everyone who has the ability to vote can change their vote whenever they please.
Posted by Hardcore.Pwnography 5 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
No, I don't have suspicions, I'm just kind of mad that kyro chose to revote for no apparent reason whatsoever. I didn't even know you could do that.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
I couldn't help but notice your comments. If you have suspicions about me asking kyro90 to vote on this debate, then please just ask me directly instead of questioning poor kyro, lol.
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
Well I saw that there was a comment one day and thought, I should read this... and so I did?
Posted by Hardcore.Pwnography 5 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
So you just decided to re-read it out of the blue? I find that hard to believe.
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
I just thought id reread it and maybe I would understand it. and so I did and changed my oppinion...
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by DanT 5 years ago
DanT
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Neither had a more convincing argument. Pro seemed to rely heavily on videos which were not really a sturdy source for this scenario. Pro seemed to have slightly better grammar and spelling, but Con had a slightly better overall conduct.
Vote Placed by Multi_Pyrocytophage 5 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's arguments were good and convinced me that the wizards would win, and had some good sites, despite the fact that he included movies as sources.
Vote Placed by royalpaladin 5 years ago
royalpaladin
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Movies cannot be an accurate source of evidence, so con wins sources. Also, he adequately showed why the wizards would be heavily restricted in a city, whereas the transformers would not. This was a fun debate.
Vote Placed by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO showed more reasons/strategies that the wizards can use. Also had better S/G
Vote Placed by esisCOA 5 years ago
esisCOA
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Con debunked pros arguments, used his own sources against him, and pro resorted to the same semantics to try and win this debate. Pro does get spelling and G. I don't believe either fully proved their bop, so best argument got the points.
Vote Placed by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:43 
Reasons for voting decision: Now that I have fully read it, I think ill vote for Chaos.
Vote Placed by whitesoxman77 5 years ago
whitesoxman77
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I feel like Con had better all around conduct, grammar, and arguments. There is no way Voldemort and Dumbledore could beat the Transformers.
Vote Placed by renji_abarai 5 years ago
renji_abarai
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I must say that this was a really great debate and each of you had good sources. Still, wizards know spells to blow up thing but transformers are bigger in size and can transform into smaller things and are hard to destroy.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
PeacefulChaosHardcore.PwnographyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro argued that the wizards have a large number of spells at their disposal, con argued the size of the transformers would be immense compared to them though. Really great debate and I gave arguments to pro because the ability to apparate would give them the edge, but con was right about movies being poor sources of evidence so i gave him that. Greatest debate ever guys, well done