The Instigator
TUF
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
tvellalott
Con (against)
Losing
17 Points

In a zombie apocalypse it would be better to be on a roof, rather than in a basement.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/6/2011 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,278 times Debate No: 15817
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (8)

 

TUF

Pro

This debate is about a hypothetical situation. If A zombie apocalypse were to occur would it be better to be elevated, or depressed?

For this debate we will be using a specific example of a house, with the options of either being upstairs, roofs, etc, or the basement.

A more specific example can be found in the 1960's film, "night of the living dead", one of the first zombie movies ever made.

http://www.angryalien.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Two characters in this movie have a dispute on whether it would be safer to hold out in the basement or on the roof.

I will be standing for the Pro side of this debate, meaning I will be arguing that is would be better or safer to hold out on the roof rather than in the basement.

1. The first and utmost reason it would be most logical to stay on the roof, or upper floor, is because there are plenty more options for escape. For example, in a basement, if you run out of ammo and get over-run, your SOL.
There is no where else to go, no where to turn to. The zombies have every available opportunity to rush in and finish their victims off.

However, with the freedom of being elevated, even if you do run out of ammunition, and zombies over run the place, you still have a wide variety of escape options. For example, you can climb out a window or off of the roof, out into the open where you have every option possible to get away or survive (granted that would probably be a hard task to accomplish).

The point being, worst comes to worst, escape is an option.

http://roadtickle.com...

2. Elevation offers better range, view, and is tactically more of an advantage.
From the roof, we can see where all the outside zombies are, better enabling the victim to plan routes of escape, or even plan aversions, etc.

Not only that, but the broad scale view offers options of scoping zombies from afar, better prolonging attention for longer periods of time.

In a basement, we only get to look at one option of attack, which is the entrance to the basement. When a bunch of zombies are subjugated to one specific area, they are more likely to bust in due to the fact that so many of them are coming in at one time, where as in a roof situation, zombies are scattered and easier to pick off.

3. Third and final, it is always logical to stay upstairs. Even in games like Nazi Zombies in COD: Black Ops, it is always easier to be in a higher elevation, where one can jump from a balcony, to a lower surface in order to prevent death for a time. I know it's a video game, but the zombies are simulated to go after human flesh relentlessly, just like we all assume real life zombies would. Given this, we have to assume that these zombies would act similar.

http://callofduty.wikia.com...

Even In all of the movies, including Dawn of the dead, The people stay on roofs and above ground. Zombie's represent brainless lifeless being intent on killing and eating any one they come across. They don't however represent the ability to learn, or to climb. Its easy to rush a door leading down stairs, where gravity can kindly carry a zombie. However, given these situations, it is unlikely to assume a zombie wouldn't have as hard of a time trying to climb a roof, or high area.

http://en.wikipedia.org...(2004_film)

It is for these few reasons I urge you to vote pro. I wish my opponent the best of luck and thank him or her for accepting this debate, in advance.
tvellalott

Con

Really sorry TUF, but I don't have time to write this. Conduct points to you. My internet is down at home and I'm at my mates place. I'll make up arguments in the other two rounds. Zombies are going to beat your zombies.

^_^
Debate Round No. 1
TUF

Pro

I wait for my opponent to make his arguents :)
tvellalott

Con

My opponent makes some very valid points regarding the tactical advantages of being elevated in a zombie apocalypse situation. Unfortunately, he is very, very wrong.

He cites Romero’s original “Night of the Living Dead” as evidence of the superiority of the rooftop. Hey brah, did you actually watch the movie?

The guy who was arguing for staying upstairs ended up…
GOING INTO THE BASEMENT!!!
…AND he was the only frikkin’ survivor (until those damn rednecks got him.)

My main source of evidence is the third Romero zombie movie Day of the Dead [1].

For those who haven’t seen it, the zombie apocalypse has almost completely wiped out humanity. A group of soldiers and doctors have been surviving in an underground bunker. Given that the reason for their destruction was in-fighting and a lunatic letting all the zombies in, I think a better group of people could have survived indefinately.

REBUTTALS
My opponents first argument is that a roof offers better chance of escape. I agree, but I’d like to suggest that it also offers a better chance of being eaten. At the point where your position is overrun by zombies to the extent that you have to escape out a window or something, it’s likely the building is completely surrounded. Zombies are slow, but their strength is in massive numbers.

How, pray tell, are you going to get past that horde outside? Jump over them? Crowd surf? You're still as fvcked as someone in a basement.

My opponents second argument is that an elevated place gives you a better tactical advantage in terms of sniping zombies. Again, I agree but I’d suggest shooting from any place you’re hoping to secure is more likely to get you eaten then help. Zombies are drawn to noise. Your awesome tactical position will be great… until there are hundreds of zombies on the way. Those bastards will come for miles for a taste of TUF.

(See conclusion for my reply to the third argument.)

“…In all of the movies, including Dawn of the dead, the people stay on roofs and above ground.”

No. Please watch Day of the Dead (the 1985 one, the new one is crap. See source.)

“Zombie's represent brainless lifeless being intent on killing and eating any one they come across. They don't however represent the ability to learn, or to climb.”

No. In Dawn of the Dead, we see zombies climbing up the ladder to chase the man when he decides not to kill himself. All 6 of Romero’s zombies movies suggest that they are dumb, but are capable of replicating actions they did in life. (ie. the zombie smashing the window to get to Barbara in NOTLD, the Hari Krishna breaking through the secret wall in DawnOTD; Bud shooting a gun in DayOTD.)

CONCLUSION
While a Basement is not your ideal location for a zombie apocalypse, it is vastly superior to an elevated area for the reasons I have listed above.

My opponent has been playing too many video games. COD Zombies and Left 4 Dead zombies are wrong, because anyone who takes damage from a zombie dies in the movies. This wouldn’t make for much of a game, so they have changed the mythology.

What you really want to do is avoid the zombies completely, hold up in as secure a place as you can. Both “Night of the Living Dead” and “Day of the Dead” show that: underground > elevated.

Vote CON!


SOURCES
[1] http://www.imdb.com...
Debate Round No. 2
TUF

Pro

Ladies and gentlemen, lets try to get one thing clear. My opponent makes alot of very great arguments against being on a roof, but really doesn't give a whole lot of credence to a basement being safe. Sure being on a roof is definitely going to be unsafe. But let's remember, we are in a world full of zombies in this hypothetical situation. No where on the planet at this point is going to be neccesarily safe. So in this situation we have to evaluate which area in this house would be safer.

First I will go over my opponents arguments.

The first thing my opponent says is the guy who was originally upstairs ended up going in to the basement before being killed. Let's clear something up here to as well. Zombies Originally overran the basement! After Harry, Helen, and Karen, were all chopped liver, zombies eventually 'overran' basement.

He wasn't even able to give the roof a try because his buddies running out to the truck screwed them over. Tactically, Ben would have survived on the roof, given his fellow humans didn't gun him down.

Next my opponent cites day of he living dead as a source for being underground as a better way to survive. Basically he says that if the characters worked together more, they could have offered a better chance. My question is how? Being underground they are really only pro-longing the inevitable. Even if they were to subdue the zombies for a short time, eventually, no matter what scenario, the humans end up dead. Sooner or later, they will run out of food and water. The only way out is upwards where the zombies patiently await their dinner. This is assuming the zombies haven't already broken into the basement and feasted their undead hearts out. No matter how anyone looks at it, the basement will never be a way to go.

Now going on to the attacks made on my case.

My opponent claims that being on a roof is tactically unsafe because the hordes of zombies surrounding the house would quickly catch up to you and devour you. This is most likely true as I have admitted a few times already. But really, opposed to being in the basement, there is alot more options. Again in the basement there is absolutely no where to run or to hide, the zombies have every available opportunity to surround a basement.

There is no where to run. On a roof you at least have an option. Worst comes to worst, you can always book it to a nearby vehicle, or try to outrun the hordes of zombies. Also being on a roof allows you to think of plans. For example if someone was to distract the zombies, another person could easily start up a vehicle while the zombies are subdued, and go pick up the distractor. Another plan can be taken from the new T.V. series, THE WALKING DEAD, where two humans (Rick and Glenn) cover themselves in zombie guts and are able to escape while disguised as zombies.

Their predicament was they were stuck on a roof.

http://www.bestweekever.tv...

Even most strategies for zombie attacks do not include being bunkered in.

See: http://zombie.wikia.com...

Next my opponent says tactical positions for sniping are detrimental because they attract more zombies.
Basically what I am saying with this argument, is that worst comes to worse, you can shoot down zombies that aren't going to get into the house. The less zombies in a subcluded area, the more likely a chance for escape will appear. No matter what you do, or where you go, you are more than likely to run into (guess what!?) Zombies! *gasps*. Mine as well gun as many down as we can to reduce from the horde that will most likely be chasing you.

Also what makes the new movies "crap" compared to the old ones? They all possess hypothetical ideas of what to do in zombie situations. Each movie gives us a different theory on tactical approaches in saving ourselves from zombies. Same with the video games, too.

My opponent next cites a few examples claiming that zombies can replicate some actions they had in real life according to a few zombie movies. However, this doesn't detract from the fact that a roof still provides the best protection against a dim witted zombie. Even if a zombie attempted to climb a ladder, it would be easy to push the ladder over, or throw objects at the zombies, to push them down. Or even barricade entry points. Bottom line, a zombie doesn't have intelligence to breach a roof, whereas it only takes brute force to breach a single basement door. We already know that zombies work in numbers, meaning all brawn no brain.

A basement, in this scenario, definitely not the best way to go.

My opponent says that NOTLD and DOTD both prove a basement is most secure. How? Both movies, the characters in the basement always die, as there is no escape. A basement proves as a death trap, for those who cannot escape.

To conclude, I strongly urge the voters to VOTE PRO, as I have proven that being in a basement, we are basically wrapping ourselves up nice and tidy in our own little lunch box, for the zombies to have a gourmet tvellalott for dinner.

Thankyou.
tvellalott

Con

FINAL ARGUMENTS

Dearest voters,
If the resolution had been “It is easier to escape from a house while on the roof, then when in a basement” I wouldn’t have taken this debate, because clearly that is true.
Perhaps I can make a case for escaping from a basement as well, before I argue why a basement is a superior place to hide and to survive.

ESCAPE FROM A BASEMENT, COMPARED TO A ROOF

In our situation, clearly the house is overrun with zombies to the point where our hero has been driven into a corner and the only option is either a roof or a basement. Now imagine they were completely equal situations, except for the location. Both characters have a bolt-action rifle and say, 20 rounds. They are both uninjured. They both have no rations. The character in the basement has one thing the character on the roof doesn’t have; resources.

The character in the basement might find something of use to him; a chainsaw or a torch for example. The character on the roof potentially has tiles to throw, I will give him that, but ultimately only has his gun. Now, I don’t think it’s too far a stretch of the imagination to say the basement would have the resources to make a torch. Some rags, a piece of wood and a flammable liquid. I can’t assume this, but I find it to be a very probable situation.

Now, if the house is completely surrounded, clearly neither roof guy or basement guy have a reasonably equal chance of escape. To escape from the roof, the character has to either climb down or jump. Climbing down takes some time and gives the surrounding zombies time to surround you. Jumping down from the roof risks injury which could ultimately be your demise.

Assuming we are talking about the house from NOTD, there is only one chance of escaping the basement, which is through the door and that is almost impossible. The character would have to be extremely lucky to escape through the door, although if he had the aforementioned torch, it might be easier.

Therefore, I would concede that while both are exceedingly difficult in a surrounded situation, the roof is indeed a better place to escape from.

HIDING IN A BASEMENT, COMPARED TO A ROOF

Now, let me discuss the main argument I attempted to make originally. If you’re planning on making a short term base, the basement has obvious advantages. Unless you’re crazy, hiding on a roof is obviously a terrible idea, as there is no more open spot possible. You can be seen from every direction! Furthermore, being exposed to the weather would be detrimental.

In terms of a long-term base, the basement (or in my example an underground bunker) is basement again wins. If the zombies have no way of getting in, you can stay there indefinitely.

REBUTTALS

“Let's clear something up here to as well. Zombies originally overran the basement!”

From the inside! That hardly counts as a breach. If there was a zombie on the roof with you, you’d be in trouble too.

“My question is how? Being underground they are really only pro-longing the inevitable.”

Yes, but they are hidden while doing it, whereas someone on a roof is highly exposed, drawing more and more zombies.

“Again in the basement there is absolutely nowhere to run or to hide, the zombies have every available opportunity to surround a basement.”
Yes, but there is significantly less chance of them doing so. Zombies aren’t magically attracted to people. They see, hear and smell them. Where are you more likely to be seen, hear and smelt: on a roof or in a basement?

“Also being on a roof allows you to think of plans.”

And you cannot think of a plan in a basement?

“For example if someone was to distract the zombies, another person could easily start up a vehicle while the zombies are subdued, and go pick up the distractor.”
Ok, so that could possibly work, given all the pieces were in place. Lots of things could work for both scenarios if the pieces are in place.

“…two humans (Rick and Glenn) cover themselves in zombie guts and are able to escape while disguised as zombies.”
Remember that you are on a roof, not in a house. Given you have a zombie on the roof and I have a zombie in the basement, this would work equally well for both of us.

“Also what makes the new movies "crap" compared to the old ones? They all possess hypothetical ideas of what to do in zombie situations. Each movie gives us a different theory on tactical approaches in saving ourselves from zombies. Same with the video games, too.”
I don’t have problems with new zombie movies, only the new Day of the Dead. It was a terrible movie and should be deleted from everywhere forever. The problem, as I already mentioned, with video games is that you can be bitten and scratched by zombies and not die and become one of them.

[Talking about Day of the Dead] “Both movies, the characters in the basement always die, as there is no escape. A basement proves as a death trap, for those who cannot escape.”
Not true at all, demonstrating that you clearly haven’t seen it. 3 people survive Day of the Dead.

CONCLUSION

My opponent asked “Is it better to be on a roof in the zombie apocalypse, or in a basement?”

I answer with “It’s somewhat better to be on a roof if you are completely surrounded, but it is definitely better to be in a basement if you are hiding.”

VOTE CON
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tvellalott 5 years ago
tvellalott
I get butt-hurt when people don't even read this debate and vote for it... "Con didn't explain why we should stay in the basement until Round 3". God damn it, I didn't have the BOP and I offered rebuttals in round 2, DIDN'T I? Geez.
Posted by Maikuru 6 years ago
Maikuru
This was a fun debate. I'm into zombie topics lately.
Posted by TUF 6 years ago
TUF
Sure bro, that'd be cool.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
TUF, since I fvcked up this one, would yo be interested in another zombie-themed debate?
Posted by TUF 6 years ago
TUF
Its all good. Thanks for a fun debate!
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I couldn't be bothered proof-reading my final argument at all. I hope it isn't wretched.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
@Kenyon: >_<
I forgot about that.
Posted by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
When you're on the roof it's also easier for rescuers to see you and maybe get you safety via helicopter. You can bring attention to yourself to outside help if you are on the roof while if you were in the basement a helicopter searching for survivors would fly right over your house and you wouldn't know.
Being on the roof is the only real chance to survive.
Posted by J.Kenyon 6 years ago
J.Kenyon
Lol, TV, you know if you forfeit the first round it just cancels the debate, right?
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
It's ok. Do it whenever you want.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con never explained why we should choose the basement until the final round, giving pro no chance to respond. Conduct for forfeit. Much more sources on Pro.
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 5 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Both sides argued well, but tvellalot showed more skill. He also knew more about NOTD, which is a source, and showed more knowledge than the Pro.
Vote Placed by PartamRuhem 5 years ago
PartamRuhem
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Con gets the win because both debaters agree that you are pretty much doomed if zombies surround you. The basement provides more options. The roof, you have jumping. That's not going to work out well. It was never stated that new arguments couldn't be introduced in the last round.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 6 years ago
Maikuru
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: The conduct vote goes to Pro because of Con's forfeit. The arguments, however, fall in favor of Con. Pro was resolved to the fact that both locations would lead to inevitable death. As such, the safety, security, and supplies afforded by a basement trump the slim possibility of escape offered by a roof.
Vote Placed by socialpinko 6 years ago
socialpinko
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeit or whatever it's called. Also con brought arguments in the last round without giving pro a chance to respond so they cannot be counted.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Close but in the end Con made a stronger position for safety, I was curious as to the exposed position of the roof was not mentioned as there is no shelter there, falling, etc. are real issues.
Vote Placed by BlackVoid 6 years ago
BlackVoid
TUFtvellalottTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con never explained why we should choose the basement until the final round, giving pro no chance to respond.
Vote Placed by Brenavia 6 years ago
Brenavia
TUFtvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: This really came down to what I think of the zombie apocalpyse. In a ZA, the zombies wouldnt be able to find you unless you allowed yourself to be seen or smelt, which a roof would be a downfall position. If you can hide yourself in the basement and do not allow yourself to be detected, then the basement is a better option. Yes, it is easier to escape from the roff, but my basement has 2 doors, one of which could be a potential escape route. Also, the supplies in a basement for survival are ther