The Instigator
bsh1
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
TheBosss
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

In fair fight, Qui-Gon Jinn would likely defeat Luke Skywalker

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
bsh1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/18/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 888 times Debate No: 52881
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (2)

 

bsh1

Pro

Topic

In a fair fight, Qui-Gon Jinn would likely defeat Luke Skywalker.

Rules

1. Debaters may pull from canon texts, the official Star wars movies, and Wookieepedia to construct their arguments
2. BOP: Pro must show that Qui-Gon would likely defeat Luke; Con must show that Luke would likely defeat Qui-Gon.
3. All links must be cited in the text of the debate
4. Any forfeit, violation of the R1 rules, or violation of the R1 set-up, constitutes a 7-point loss

Definitions

Fair Fight - a fight in which neither competitor has any special advantage other than what they would normally be able to do. In a fair fight the rules apply equally to all contestants.
Likely - indicating probability and/or plausibility
Defeat - to win victory over. This does not mean Windu must kill Yoda, only render him unable to continue or force him to concede the battle.

Structure

R1: Acceptance
R2: Core Cases (no rebuttals)
R3: Rebuttals
R4: Rebuttals
R5: Rebuttals and Crystallization (no new arguments or evidence)

Context

Luke Skywalker - we are assuming that this is the Luke Skywalker from Episode VI
Qui-Gon Jinn - we are assuming that this is the Qui-Gon Jinn from Episode I

Thanks...

...in advance to TheBosss for what I expect to be a fun debate!
TheBosss

Con

Bring it on *cracks knuckles and whispers, "I suck at this"*. This is going to be fun bsh1.
Debate Round No. 1
bsh1

Pro

I thank Con for accepting this debate! It'll be fun! I will structure my case as follows: first, a critique of Luke Skywalker's abilities; second, an analysis of Qui-Gon's abilities; third, a crystallization of the arguments in the form of a brief comparison of both combatants.

LUKE SKYWALKER

Luke, at the end of Episode 5, was indeed a skilled fighter; however, there are several critiques we can make of his abilities. Firstly, he was brash and rushed into decisions. After receiving a prophetic vision on Dagobah, Luke left in the middle of his training to fight an opponent (Vader) who was far more skilled than he. Luke demonstrated difficulty in calming himself when channeling the force, as evidence by his issues with telekinesis during his training period with Yoda (clip No.1).

Moreover, during Luke's duel with Vader, Luke's lightsaber strokes were blunt and imprecise. His technique lacked refinement, enabling Vader to disarm him at two different junctures. At no point was Vader not fully in control of their duel. Then, we faced with Vader's using of telekinesis to fling objects at him, rather than respond calmly, Luke ineffectively attempted to bat the objects away with his lightsaber (clip No. 2).

Finally, Luke lacked training. Consider that by this point, Luke's only formal training in lighstaber combat was with some practice using a remote while en route to Alderaan in Episode 1, and, presumably, during his brief stay on Dagobah with Yoda. In contrast, Qui-Gon had a lifetimes experience beneath his belt, and was far more practiced and confident.

QUI-GON JINN

"Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the finest swordsman in the Jedi Order, having frequent sparring experience with many of his skilled contemporaries; notably Mace Windu and Anoon Bondara. Jinn was a master of the fourth form of lightsaber combat, Ataru. In combat, his bladework was wide and powerful, marked by heavy, two-handed slashes, and sudden flourishes to cover his flanks. Jinn's mastery of Ataru allowed him to easily defeat blaster wielding opponents despite the forms weakness to blaster fire. Rather than focus on an overall strategy, Jinn preferred to adjust his technique based on the needs of the moment...Jinn was also capable of effectively employing unarmed combat strikes into his lightsaber sequences." [1]

We can see a marked difference in skill, elegance, and precision in the clip of Qui-Gon's duel with Maul vice the clip of Luke's duel with Vader. Moreover, Qui-Gon gave Maul a vicious fight and a run for his money. At times throughout the duel Qui-Gon would be on top, clearly pushing Maul to his limits even without Obi-Wan's assistance. Again, at no point did Luke dominate Vader.

ANALYSIS

Qui-Gon was skilled as a swordsman and in his abilities to deflect blaster blots. In fact, Qui-Gon as one of the best duelist of his time would have clearly dominated the Luke Skywalker from Episode VI. Moreover, Qui-Gon was not likely to act in an irrational manner, and had years of experience on which to draw. Luke, however, clearly lacked to seasoning and clearheadedness of combat Vader effectively. Therefore, this is a no contest. Qui-Gon would crush Luke like a bug.

SOURCE

http://starwars.wikia.com...

Thanks! Over to Con...
TheBosss

Con

TheBosss forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
bsh1

Pro

Extend points.
TheBosss

Con

TheBosss forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
bsh1

Pro

Extend points.
TheBosss

Con

TheBosss forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
bsh1

Pro

The ignominy of a full forfeit. Please vote Pro. Thanks!
TheBosss

Con

TheBosss forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bilbobaggins11 2 years ago
bilbobaggins11
Qui-Gon Jinn
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
I messed up. I gave argument for Luke from Episode V; I should have given them for Episode VI, where they're more even.
Posted by thett3 2 years ago
thett3
To be clear, I would *not* f*** with the first guy, but compared to someone who's been able to practice their craft and learn under masters in a society where those skills were relevant (not the force being viewed as an "ancient religion" like in A New Hope). Damn, I just realized that guy is kind of the Ninja version of Luke
Posted by thett3 2 years ago
thett3
I would not take neg on this btw, it seems pretty impossible. I'm far from an expert on Star Wars but it would be hard to argue that a young Jedi like Luke being taught as a teenager after the Jedi were exterminated could compare to a master who's trained since childhood at a time when the order was still vibrant.

It would be like arguing this guy: http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Could beat this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
Lol...you've had an interesting life, musically. I'll say that much.
Posted by thett3 2 years ago
thett3
Lol, when I was young apparently I made my sister and cousins play this song for me on repeat. I still remember when I first heard American Pie and realized that it was a parody of it. My 8 year old mind was blown
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
-_-

nac
Posted by thett3 2 years ago
thett3
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
@thett3 - DON'T EVEN INSULT QUI-GON
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
@thett3 - DON'T EVEN INSULT QUI-GON
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by thett3 2 years ago
thett3
bsh1TheBosssTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z29OVZLbZk
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
bsh1TheBosssTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Well, what can you do? Full forfeit, Pro wins.