The Instigator
Logical-Master
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
Yraelz
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

In general, Sonic Customers should not feel obligated to tip Sonic servers

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Logical-Master
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,853 times Debate No: 41815
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (32)
Votes (1)

 

Logical-Master

Pro

First Round = Acceptance.
Remaining Rounds = Debate.
Yraelz

Con

It's time to d-d-d-d-duel!!!
Debate Round No. 1
Logical-Master

Pro

Greetings to my opponent and many thanks for accepting this debate. Members of Debate Dot Org (DDO), today’s debate boils down to two things: Work and Benefits. Before discussing these two points of interest, we should first learn a bit more about Sonic itself; to determine whether you should feel obligated to tip Sonic Servers, one should first consider why they go to Sonic in the first place.

Sonic is a fast food establishment where people can get burgers, fries, hotdogs, cheesesticks, soft drinks, etc.[1] At sonics, customers have the option of pulling into a parking space and ordering their food from said space, eating outside on a table or (depending on the location) purchasing food from a drive-thru window. Sometimes, customers can have their food served to them by servers on skates, otherwise known as carhoppers.[2] All in all, people go to Sonics for the food, convenience and the atmosphere.

However, does Sonic offer food, convenience and atmosphere such that customers should feel obligated to tip? Not a chance. This is so for two reasons:

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Work: |

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I submit to you, members of DDO, that servers at sonics generally don’t do enough work to warrant a “tip.”. Although people may come to sonics for the food, convenience and the atmosphere, the level to which sonic servers contribute to sonic customer experience is generally pretty negligible.

Pay special attention to the youtube video I provided. This, members of DDO, is a Sonic server in action (note that not ALL Sonic servers even skate). For the most part, what you see in the video sums up what they get paid to do. (1) They do not enhance the quality of the food. No amount of walking/skating back and forth and is going to accomplish that. (2) Besides grabbing extra ketchup packets or napkins out of their pockets if asked, they don't really contribute to convenience either. The convenience of going to Sonic is ordering and eating from your car. (3) The amount to which Sonic Servers contribute to the atmosphere is negligible at best. Skating over small distances, even with food in your hands is not an impressive feat. It's simply a gimmick and nothing more.

Because the work they produce is practically negligible in comparison to what you as a customer are already expecting to pay for when you visit a Sonic drive-ins, you as the customer should not feel obligated to tip them. If you simply wish to tip them out of kindness, that's one thing, but no obligation should exist as far as Sonic severs are concerned. In essence, car hoppers simply carry the customer’s order out from the restaurant to the customer’s vehicle or table. Unlike servers at higher class restaurants (i.e. Olive Garden), a Sonic server's work is pretty one dimensional.

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Benefits|

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Second, I submit to you, members of DDO, that Sonic servers are already provided a wide range of benefits regardless of whether they are given a tip. [3] Most notably is the benefit of employers adjusting their salaries to fill in for any gap between the amount of money they’ve been tipped and the amount of money required by minimum wage laws. In essence, if severs already receive a wide range of benefits and are still protected by minimum wage laws, we as customers should not feel obligated to tip them.




Now since I am psychic and know the arguments my opponent will try to use, I'll set two cards face down and end my turn! ;)

Sources:

[1] http://www.sonicdrivein.com...
[2] Video http://www.youtube.com...
[3] http://www.job-applications.com......
Yraelz

Con

Aloha to my opponent and those voters who will eventually vote for me. Although I typically maintain a cordial demeanor in my debates I would ask to be excused in advance for this one. On such a heated topic I can only justify my opponent's stance as the ravings of a class 7 lunatic. Today's debate evaporates into two major topics: hazards and entertainment. As my opponent has already devastatingly mischaracterized the work of a sonic server, I will immediately jump into the topics at hand.


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Hazards:

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My misnomered opponent suggests that skating with food in hand is not an impressive feat! This statement could be no further from the truth. In my first piece of evidence I clearly demonstrate the strenuous level of skill and precision involved in world class sonic skating [1]. Indeed, the video portrays sonic skaters pulling off food-in-hand triple axles, even Olympic figure skaters accomplish no such feat. Sonic skating is in fact so impressive as to warrant competitions in Las Vegas each year. Sonic skating continues to evolve, some skaters have incorporated exceedingly difficult break dance moves into their routines [2].

But with every impressive feat comes to risk of debilitating injury. In the next video I will demonstrate the extreme dangers of skating in general [3]. Literally every person shown in this video will, at some point, die. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some sonic skaters have suffered life threatening injuries from their respective routines [4]. The Economics of Happiness rate injury and illness as a potential $320,000 economic deficit [5]. However, sonic car-hops are compensated little above minimum wage; to alleviate the potential risks Sonic worker's rely on tips.

Thus we arrive at the first reason why customers should feel obligated to tip. Sonic car-hops risk their lives every day to serve customers in a unique fashion. A single freak slip and suddenly the car-hop faces the prospect of living eternally off of a feeding tube. Beneath their limp form a smashed meal, that they will never be able to enjoy again, only adds insult to injury. Great justice demands that customers try to alleviate these risks through tipping.


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Entertainment:

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Until this point my opponent has conceived of sonic employees purely as they relate to the food industry. But don't sonic employees do something more than deliver food? And aren't their non-food industry activities which we feel obligated to tip? In the previous contention I demonstrated the world class skill involved in sonic skating. In this contention I will bring light to a separate class of activities which we feel obligated to tip: street performers [6-8]. It's of course no coincidence that all three street performing videos involve roller skating. This is because roller skating is a valid street performance which obligates compensation for entertainment. Moreover, I will argue that sonic roller skaters are much more deserving of tips than most other street performers. Take a look at these street performances: [9] or this: [10].

Thus we have arrived at the second conclusion. The amount of skill and performance involved into the sonic car-hop routine doesn't exclusively qualify for them for a 'food-service' tip. In reality, they also qualify for a street performance tip. In this way sonic carhops are, generally speaking, twice as entitled to tips than any other group.


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Final Thoughts:

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My opponent suggests that the sonic routine adds nothing to the convenience of the experience. Physics begs to differ. While world class runners can move at roughly 25mph, a skater can actually exceed speeds of 50mph [11]. Scientifically speaking, the sonic experience has potential to be at least twice as convenient as the Kenyan carhop experience.

Finally, the false master of logic asserts that the food is not enhanced via the sonic servers. I would beg to differ! Not only does the food arrive quicker (read: 'warmer = better' and 'Kenyans got nothing') but food treated with extra care really does taste better [12]. The study notes that intentions behind a meals serving actually effect how the meal tastes. Since the sonic carhop intends to offer an extra satisfying experience, their intentions create a better meal.


With use of the millennium eye I deftly counter my opponents cards with three face down.

Sources:
1. http://tinyurl.com...
2. http://tinyurl.com...
3. http://tinyurl.com...
4. http://tinyurl.com...
5. Grant, Lyle K. "The economics of happiness: Building genuine wealth." (2010): 10.
6. http://tinyurl.com...
7. http://tinyurl.com...
8. http://tinyurl.com...
9. http://tinyurl.com...
10. http://tinyurl.com...
11. http://wiki.answers.com...
12. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 2
Logical-Master

Pro

REBUTTING CON's CASE!!!


Turapu kado hatsudo!!!

Not so fast! I reveal my face down card, Unjustifiable Assumption! At the cost of 1882 characters, I can destroy any argument from my opponent that is premised upon an unjustifiable assumption! Here, both of my opponents arguments, Hazard and Environment, are premised upon the notion that all Sonic servers rely upon roller skating. However, this is not the case. At this time, I'll reveal my other face down card, Counter-Evidence! [1] [2]

One should note that there are two different kinds of sonic servers. There are car hops and skating car hops. As the attached evidence indicates, these are two different positions with two different expected sets of duties. Thus, even if you were to buy into my opponent's case, by restricting his arguments to the expected performance from skating car hops, he is conceding that there should not be an obligation to tip carhops in general.

Another problem with my opponent's arguments is that even if all Sonic servers were required to skate, the kind of evidence he uses is restricted to the very best and otherwise daring Sonic Skaters. As Sonic itself admits, the talent displayed in the videos my opponent links to are restricted to but a few Sonic servers.[3] Most servers simply have to worry about skating a dozen or so feet back and forth. My opponent, by his own admission, talks about "world class sonic skating", but Sonic skaters in general aren't world class Sonic skaters.

In sum, CON's entire case is premised upon two unjustifiable assumptions; 1) That all Sonic Servers Skate and 2) that all Sonic servers engage in world class skating/danger. This is clearly not the case, thus both of my opponent's arguments are destroyed! This debate deals with Sonic Servers in general, thus my trap cards remain effective! Hazard and Environment are destroyed!



Street Performance and Entertainment do not create an obligation!


But wait, there's more! When my opponent uses an argument that doesn't logically follow, he takes additional damage! His exact reasoning for Sonic servers being owed a tip is that there are hazards to skating back and forth at short distances that and that Sonic servers are actually owed a street performance tip.

First, to the very same extent that Sonic carhopping is a hazardous activity, we must keep in mind the dangers associated with being a Sonic customer! Indeed, customers who visit Sonic face the risk of getting robbed [4][5], facing life threatening illnesses [6] and even murder! [7]. The risks that Sonic customers face as they bravely march through this unholy citadel of chaos and destruction far outweigh the risk of skating back and forth a few feet at your leisure. If anyone is to be compensated for the risks they face, it is the brave customers who that enter this foul hive of scum of villainy at their free will! It is my contention that the risks constumers face while dining in at Sonic at very least negates any risks a Sonic server could face!

Second, street performers do indeed engage in some extraordinary activities, but my opponent is incorrect to compare the two. Street performers don't have the luxury of healthcare benefits, minimum wage, and 401K retirement plans.[8] A Street Performer on his own, hence that may weigh the scales when one decides to tip said performer. On the other hand, a Sonic server is pretty much 'covered' by his/her employee. Moreover, my previous round argument that Sonic skating is not impressive holds strong. This can be seen in my opponent's evidence. The fact that he speaks strongly of so many alleged instances of failure makes his argument inconsistent. If Sonic skaters are failing all the time, then they clearly aren't living up to the prodigious task of street performing. On the other hand, if they aren't failing all the time, the tasks of skating back and forth a few feet clearly isn't that hazardous.

Empty Final Thoughts!


My opponent offers some final thoughts, but these thoughts are quite thoughtless! He is indeed correct about the capacity of a world class runner, but a world class runner has an entire track to buil a speed whereas a Sonic skater moves back and forth a couple of feet all day. He's also correct about food tasting better when treated with exra, but this doesn't alter the fact that a sonic server is merely a middleman when it comes to caring for the food!

I set a card facedown in the field spell slot!

Turn endo da!


Sources:

[1] http://www.azrsi.com...
[2] http://www.azrsi.com...
[3] http://ir.sonicdrivein.com... (noting that "guests expect to see a skating Carhop or two when they pull into a SONIC Drive-In. But they don't always expect to see the level of creativity and expertise some of our talented Carhops display! "
[4] http://tinyurl.com...
[5] http://tinyurl.com...
[6] http://tinyurl.com...
[7] http://tinyurl.com...
[8] http://tinyurl.com...

Yraelz

Con

Yraelz forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Logical-Master

Pro

Realizing that defeat is inevitable, the once mighty Yraelz flees in terror like a scared kitten! A real shame as I don't get to use my field spell card!

Thanks for the debate!

Vote PRO!


Logical Master

Yraelz

Con

Use of the millennium eye revealed Logical-Master's face down field spell slot to be the infamous cat world card [1]! His planned use of this card in round 4 would have devolved the entire debate into cutesy cat pictures and memes. Faced with this utter mockery to our high class debate there was no alternative but to forfeit my 3rd round. Breath a sigh of relief fellow debaters and judges, I have saved you from a most tragic fate.

With dramatic poise, I overturn the first of my face down cards: devastating comeback [2]! In a severe oversight Logical_Master forgot to read the graveyard clause of Hazards and Environment, "Sub arguments not refuted will deal 3000 points of damage directly to your opponents life points!" Which leaves us with one question, and one question only, "did Logical_Master forget to refute sub-arguments?"

1. Sub argument "sonic workers break dance" remains untouched on the field of battle!
2. Sub argument "life threatening routines are an economic deficit of $320,000" remains unscathed on the field of battle!

Remember judges, in a game of DDugioh it matters little how many of your opponents monsters are destroyed. At the end of the day it comes down to how many life points remain! Logical_Master has lost 6000 life points, which leaves him with 2000.


Which leads to my second reveal: Collateral Skating Damage! I grant my opponent all of his arguments pertaining to sonic street performances not deserving tips. Specifically I grant this argument, "If Sonic skaters are failing all the time, then they clearly aren't living up to the prodigious task of street performing." I will further grant that only some sonic carhops actually skate. The combination of these concessions is devastating to Logical_Master's case (and life points), this video demonstrates how a single roller skater can be a life threatening nuisance to at least 5 other people [3]. In fact, roller skaters have a proven record of violence against their fellow human beings [4]. In today's debate I will not have to win that all sonic carhop's skate;the existence of a single (proven violent & accident prone) skater can threaten the lives of every single sonic carhop! Recall that my opponent has conceded the $320,000 economic deficit related to injuries. Yet logical_master maintains that, "a Sonic server is pretty much 'covered' by his/her employee." On a minimum wage? From a $320,000 speeding death ball? I think not!!!!


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Hazards Reborn [5]

=====

I overturn my final face down card: Argument Reborn! Hazard's has been returned to the field of battle in attack position with 3500 ATK! Logical_Master has committed a grave tactical error. He correctly articulates that sonic customers face life threatening events at sonic every single day. But wouldn't this also mean that sonic employees face life threatening events on a daily basis? Indeed [6]. The proposition has all but guaranteed a con ballot.

Logical_Master's only recourse is to suggest that sonic customers actually deserve compensation, however, there are two superior arguments on the field. First, sonic customers are in cars which they can use to escape from impending doom at a higher velocity. Thus sonic employees are actually more disadvantaged than the customers they serve! And second, logical_master has created a false dichotomy which supercharges my card. By demonstrating that customer's deserve compensation he has only proven that BOTH customers and employees deserve tips!!! He should have read the latent effect on his monster card, "playing Customer Compensation makes all Hazards in play unblockable!"

Before ending my turn I attack with Hazards, doing an additional 3500 damage directly to my opponents life points! That's OVER 9000! The judges may think it's unfair that my opponent does not receive one additional round to combat me, but remember that these are the rules of DDugioh: When a player's life points drop below 8000 they can no longer play.

Regards,
Yraelz


Sources:
1. http://yugioh.wikia.com...
2. http://tinyurl.com...
3. http://tinyurl.com...
4. http://tinyurl.com...
5. http://tinyurl.com...
6. http://www.knoe.com...
Debate Round No. 4
32 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Yraelz 2 years ago
Yraelz
Fear you say? Only this time shall I overlook your wanton misspelling of "sympathy". In truth, I couldn't bear to see you lose yet another debate to me.
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
Your fear lead to your undoing, yraelz! VICTORY IS MINE!!!
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
Knock yourself out!
Posted by TheAntidoter 2 years ago
TheAntidoter
Pardon me putting this debate into your notifications, but would you mind if I voted on this debate?
Posted by Yraelz 2 years ago
Yraelz
Excuse my sudden use of 3rd person, but:

You can't vote against a Yraelz forfeit in a debate! That's like voting against Christmas, Japanese Tea Time, or poor Yraelz' grammar. These things are well established traditions that predate the very evolution of this cite. It's like voting against happiness.
Posted by Yraelz 2 years ago
Yraelz
I thought you would enjoy that line. Sorry I missed that round, I wasn't even busy, I just thought I had an additional 8 hours or so.
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
We should do this again some time!
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
" By demonstrating that customer's deserve compensation he has only proven that BOTH customers and employees deserve tips!!! "

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Posted by Yraelz 2 years ago
Yraelz
Posted by Yraelz 2 years ago
Yraelz
It's a tradition in my debates with you. That is kind of sad though, I thought I had like an additional 8 hours.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
Logical-MasterYraelzTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit by Con.