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The Contender
Con (against)
3 Points

In the Bible Angels and Demons are interchangeable

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/30/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 532 times Debate No: 61068
Debate Rounds (3)
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Have you ever watched the Three Stooges on TV? Moe, Larry and Curly. Moe, Larry and Shemp (Champ for all you non-Yiddish). Moe, Larry and Joe, (er, ah, didn't like the Joe episodes). In the Stooges you have 2/3 which would be Moe and Larry. Then you have the 1/3 which would be either Curly or Champ, (Shemp for all you non-English). The gest of the Stooges is that there is something wrong with the world and they, the Stooges are going to straighten it out. You get all the laughs from all the kookie things that the Angels, (Stooges for all you non-religious) do.

As Pro in this debate we will be examining just how ignorant the Angels, (and the Demons) really are. The Bible is my source. Con is welcome to use any source. And as always, good luck Con.

The First Passover:
That is right. In the First Passover we find the Angel outside.


I've been anticipating such a topic for some time.
I haven't watched the Three Stooges on TV (though i've watched the movie).

As con i say that Angels are not ignorant as pro thinks. And thank you pro for giving me liberty of source.

Hoping for an interesting debate...Please enlighten my dull intellect!
Debate Round No. 1


(That you have watched a Three Stooges movie shows some literary spark about you. Anyone who would watch a Three Stooges movie just cannot have a dull intellect. You must be trying to trick me into underrating you. That is not very nice.)

In the Three Stooges episode, "I'll Never Heil Again" Moe Hailstone declares that the world belonged to him. The actor Moe Howard was making fun of the original Heil Hailstone who actually thought that the world belonged to him. What the original Heil Hailstone believed was that if he could kill off all of his enemies then the world would be his. I know that that is not very original but hey that is what the guy really believed. Now the original Heil Hailstone had to have gotten this idea from somewhere. So I am just guessing that since the original Heil Hailstone was a student of history and a Roman Catholic in upbringing that he was familiar with the story of the first Passover there in Exodus chapter 12.

To give a little background to the first Passover we can discover the origin of Heil Hailstones big idea-

In order to keep control of the Egyptian world the Pharaoh thought to kill off all the Israelites by first killing off all the first born Israelite male children.

Now Con there is this author by the name of Jack London. (Funny that an American would have the name 'London' but maybe there is a connection.) Anyway Jack London coined the phrase 'the law of the club and fang'. This also is not really very original as it is a knock off of the law 'an eye for an eye'. If the law 'an eye for an eye' is applied to the Pharaoh of Egypt then that would bring us to the original


Where the first born of Egypt were slain just like the first born of Israel were slain.

(Isn't Old Testament Law fun?)


Using the opportunity of Liberty of Source....I'd like take the Hindu scripture Bhagavad-Gita as my source.

In the Bhagavad-Gita chapter sixteen, Lord Krishna (The Supreme Personality of Godhead) speaks about the Divine and Demoniac Natures. The Divine corresponds to Angels and The Demoniac corresponds to Demons.

Bg 16.1-3 " The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Fearlessness; puri@257;cation of one"s existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacri@257;ce; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to fault@257;nding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor " these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.

Bg 16.4 " Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance " these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of PM71;thā.

Pro quotes from OT
But Old Testament cannot be taken as a coherent source of spiritual knowledge but an attempt by an imperfect soul to describe the Absolute.

Scriptures like OT defame God and ashame theists. Such scriptures incite hate against God and have also been instrumental for atheism.

If someone was to include Adolf Hitler in a mini-series that portrays him as a noble and admirable man by deliberately and completely removing anything about his cruel persecution of innocent people there would be absolute outrage. But when such a portrayal is done for Moses in The Bible series, no one blinks an eye.
the Old Testament is the barbaric insanity from which Christianity and Islam flow.

From the two verses i've posted above there's a massive difference between Angels and Demons...And Its impossible to interchange both character as PRO states...Even though OT states so, we can clearly understand the lack of spiritual knowledge of OT authors.
Debate Round No. 2


Yes the Old Testament is barbaric. The Old Testament is a barbaric relic. We can even say that the Old Testament is-

The Barbaric Relic

That is because the Pharaoh like Heil Hailstone was not an original thinker. Pharaoh was controlled by the demonic who persuaded Pharaoh to liquidate the first born of Israel. Now comes the interchangeable part-

The only difference between the Egyptians and the Israelites was that the Egyptians held political power and the Israelites did not. Therefore-

In order to enforce the LAW the Angels had to do it themselves. The Angels with all their goody goodness that Con has mentioned in Karmac went ahead and slaughtered all the innocent Egyptian children that they could find.

While we must face the fact that there is such a thing as LAW, that does not mean that we are LAW zombies. The German Blitzkrieg operated under the rule of law. Heil Hailstone ordered the German army to cross the border and invade Poland. What was the legal obligation that the German army had since Hailstone was the legal leader of Germany at the time?

A. To follow the leader's orders blindly, invading Poland?
B. To march directly to the border and stop without crossing, accepting a coward's court marshal?

(Con, you didn't say anything about a court marshaled coward being good.)


Pro's argument is kinda shaking the foundation of this debate.
Hence i'd like to redefine terms Angels and Demons
Angels: beings full of goodness and willfully surrendered to God's will.
Demons: Revolting against God's will and misleading others from following God's will.

I quote further from the Bhagavad-Gita to differentiate between Demons and Angels.

Bg 16.13-15 " The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacri@257;ces, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.
Bg 16.16 " Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, they become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and fall down into hell.
Bg 16.17 " Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes proudly perform sacri@257;ces in name only, without following any rules or regulations.

Bg 16.18 " Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demons become envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in their own bodies and in the bodies of others, and blaspheme against the real religion.

I don't understand how are these traits which are complete out of phase interchangeable?

Pro said "A. To follow the leader's orders blindly, invading Poland?
B. To march directly to the border and stop without crossing, accepting a coward's court marshal?"

I think the soldiers should use their conscience and make intellectual conviction of what do to instead of blindly following their leader....

Refutation with a Story:

There a story in Hindu history (believed to be more than 2 million years ago) in which there existed a king called Hiranyakashipu who wanted himself to be called God. He would persecute all those who worship Lord Vishnu.
People of his kingdom started worshiping him as God.

read the story in full version here since i'm not a good narrator:

Video version with English Subtitles: (prahlad's faith will inspire you)

Conclusion: My point here is....Hiranyakashipu is similar to God of OT (a demon) and who's son Prahlada is similar to God's Son Jesus (an angel)....Thus i've clearly demonstrated that there's a massive difference between Angels and Demons whether it be Bible or any other scripture, hence are not interchangeable.

Bhagavad-Gita reference:

Thank you pivot, its been pleasure debating with you!

Debate Round No. 3
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Vote Placed by ShadowKingStudios 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Failure to remain coherent has cost you my vote Pro. The Stooges input was unnecessary. FYI, Moe Howard playing Heil Hailstone is a parody Adolf Hitler.
Vote Placed by TrasguTravieso 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Can I vote against both?