The Instigator
applesnacks
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Koopin
Con (against)
Winning
49 Points

In the United States, Marijana Should be Legalized

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,049 times Debate No: 10826
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (9)

 

applesnacks

Pro

Thank you to whoever accepts this debate, and your free to make the first constructive argument. This was an interesting debate among my class recently and i hope to expand on it with some more interesting arguments.
Koopin

Con

Thank you for posting your argument. I decline your offer to go first (since you are Pro) please make your first argument.
In it, please list

1. Why it should be made Legal.

2. The benefits

3. Anything else you would like to say.
Debate Round No. 1
applesnacks

Pro

And that's why I added a 4th round.

First off the definition of Legalized is a tricky one, however for this debate I will define it the same way tobacco is, available at age 18 but illegal until then.

With that I'll move onto my contentions on the high and unnecessary cost, the beneficial effects of legalization and that the current prohibition causes more hard than good.

First off we have to look at the current cost of marijuana prohibition. (1) According to Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron we are currently spending roughly 13 billion dollars on the enforcement of marijuana prohibition per year. (1) In addition, if it were legal and taxed comparably to alcohol and tobacco the US would receive an estimated 6.7 billion in additional tax revenue. This means more money for public spending and less money for the drug dealers and international suppliers, something I will expand on in my third contention.

Second, the beneficial effects of legalization. (2) John DiNardo, an economist now at the University of Michigan performed a study as states changed the drinking age to 21 that compared use of other drugs as the drinking age was increased. In the study it was shown that among high school seniors there was 4.5 percent decrease in drinking and a 2.4 percent increase in getting high. This experiment suggests that an availability of marijuana could lower alcohol consumption. While another study showed a 30% increase in cannabis use lead to about a 10% decrease in alcohol use. However alcohol use leads to thousands of deaths in the US each year, with barely any from cannabis, so trading one for the other seems like an alright deal. This is in addition to the tax revenue and the benefits from a whole new industry opening up.

And third, the current prohibition does not protect this country but in fact aids criminal undergrounds and invites in more gangs and illegal activity. The lack of legitimate marijuana supplies has lead to several problems, its led to massive plantations forming in our own public forests (3), an increased presence of drug cartels in the US and more and more smuggling from foreign countries, especially Mexico. (4)

In summation the current prohibition is irresponsible and give us nothing but wasted money and increased crime. We need to reform the current laws to ones that will actually benefit the US.

1) http://www.economics.harvard.edu...
2)http://motherjones.com...
3) http://motherjones.com...
4) http://www.nytimes.com...
Koopin

Con

Thank you for posting your next argument. I would like to start off with a famous quote that fits the subject.

"A nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket trying to lift himself up by the handle."

Winston Churchill said that in 1903.

You speak a lot regarding money in most of your argument.

You claim that we would actually acquire additional wealth if Marijuana was legalized, this is somewhat true.

But do you know what else we would profit from?

Methamphetamine, Cocaine, and Heroin.

Generating more currency is not a suitable reason to decriminalize something.

If you are okay with those drugs being legalized, let me use some other examples.

"The Untied states would profit from child prostitution."
"The United States would profit from selling nukes to Iraq"
"The United States would profit from raiding houses and stealing people clothes."

Also, Marijuana is extremely cheap and easy to grow.

There would be a lot of people who would just grow their own instead of paying taxes on it.

I do agree that it would bring some extra cash to the United States, but not as much as everyone is making it out to be.

Again, Methamphetamine, Cocaine, and Heroin would in fact decrease alcohol use among high school students.

There is a problem with your studies you listed.

The studies were about high school students, not about the rest of the Americans.

Yes, alcohol does lead to numerous deaths, but so does Marijuana.

First of all, the legalization Marijuana is not trading one for the other as you claim.

There will still be a lot of people who drink, most of them will not be high school students.

Secondly, if Marijuana is legalized high school students would not be allowed to smoke it in the first place, so your test is faulty.

Do you believe it should also be legal for high school students to get it too?

Thirdly many people believe the lie that Marijuana has no harmful effects.

Claiming that would make you guilty of fallacies. Below is a list of just the short term effects.

1. Distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch).
This can be a big problem while driving, legalizing Marijuana would increase the death rate due to car crashes.

2. Problems with recollection and learning.
In today's world we need to be able to learn for the problems we will face in our future.

3. Loss of coordination.
Again, this would result in more death from car crashes, boating accidents, ect…

4. Trouble with thinking and problem-solving.
We have many problems already in today's world that need to be solved.

5. Increased heart rate.
Heart attacks are already one of the top killers in America, why would we want to increase that?

You also say that legalizing Marijuana will stop crime.

This is also a lie that many people believe.

Your link talks about Mexicans coming to the Untied States to sell the drug.

Think about it, do you really think that people will just stop coming in from Mexico to sell Marijuana just because it's legalized?

In reality, the people from Mexico would see that Marijuana is legal in United States and come up here to sell more.

You also are making it out to sound like crime will just stop if Marijuana is legalized. There will still be other drugs that are illegal, therefore there will still be crime.

There are other crimes, dangers, and harmful effects that I will save for my next argument.

I thank my opponent for this debate and look forward to your next argument.

Sources:
(1). http://faculty.washington.edu...
(2). http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca...
(3). http://en.wikipedia.org...
(4). http://www.preventingheartdisease.org...
(5). http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
applesnacks

Pro

Thank you for continuing the debate.
Lets start off with refuting your claims

Stating that decriminalization would lead to the US decriminalize all drugs is a logical fallacy as are his more extreme examples - I'm sure we've all read the wiki on slippery slope theory.

You say that people would continue to go the illegal route, but why? Legal growing means modern growing process, more yield for less, and the fact that they don't have to hide the crop means that legally grown marijuana will be cheaper and will drive shady inefficient illegal growers out - In addition the quality of the crop can actually be regulated leading to a safer consumer.

Which leads me to another one of your arguments, as you said it "Yes, alcohol does lead to numerous deaths, but so does Marijuana." - well, here you go http://drugwarfacts.org..., see that number 2? that's alcohol, and what's that one at the bottom, oh its marijuana.

You brought up that the substitution effect is invalid because it used high school students. Well since we're considering the use of alcohol among high school students irrelevant here's another study showing the same effect of adults. (1)

You stated the short term effects of marijuana, and yes there are some but the long term affects are less serious than either tobacco or alcohol (2) and can actually reduce the chance of some forms of cancer (3).

When legitimate growing and cultivation processes are used to create higher quantity of better quality cannabis for less money, then the product created in hiding will be crushed by the competition.

Reduced crime, increased savings and reduction in alcohol consumption can all be obtained from the legalization of marijuana, and I look forward to my opponents next argument.

1)http://blog.mpp.org...
2)http://www.confinizero.it... ( go to discussion and look at the table)
3)http://norml.org...
Koopin

Con

Thank you for posting your next argument.

You have failed to understand the examples I gave.

In no way was I saying that Marijuana legalization would lead to the legalization of other drugs.

What I was saying is that we can not legalize something just because it would bring more money in.

You said,
"You say that people would continue to go the illegal route, but why?"

I thought I was very clear on why.

Because No taxes, and increased profit. Please read over my argument again if you did not fully understand this.

You have decided to use the absurd claim that there have been no deaths from Marijuana use.

I read your link, and it really said Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.

We are not talking about overdoses. It is almost as if you completely ignored my argument.

I listed reasons for deaths such as car accidents, and heart attacks.

Your own source even says that doctors have examined dead people with Marijuana in the bodies.

It is true that one can not overdose on Marijuana, but it is not true that people have not died from it.

I encourage you to read your whole source in the future.

All the studies you listed say that they "can" or "might" do something.

No where are they saying that it will. Again, look at my examples.

You also said,
"You stated the short term effects of marijuana, and yes there are some but the long term affects are less serious than either tobacco or alcohol"

First of all I have not listed the long term affects.

Secondly, you say that the long term affects are not as bad as tobacco or alcohol, but have not compared the short term affects to tobacco or alcohol.

Tobacco does not cause distorted perception.

You claim,
"Reduced crime, increased savings and reduction in alcohol consumption CAN all be obtained from the legalization of marijuana"

Again, there is the word can, not will.

Methamphetamine CAN do the same though it should not be legal.

You also claim that marijuana CAN actually reduce the chance of SOME forms of cancer.

The source that you use even admits that their studies still need to be tested.

Therefore you can not say that it does reduce the chance of some forms of cancer.

In reality, Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that causes emphysema and cancer.

Now that I have responded to your claims I will continue to list reasons why it should not be legalized.

Most people who are killed in car crashes have been found with alcohol.

But do you know what else they are usually found with? Marijuana.

Marijuana and alcohol are a deadly mix.

If it is legalized then people would bring both alcohol and Marijuana to parties, just like people bring cigarettes and alcohol.

This would not be good at all for obvious reasons.

A long term affect of Marijuana is called Burnout, a term first used by marijuana smokers themselves to describe the effect of prolonged use.

People who smoke marijuana can become dull, inattentive and slow moving.
It is obvious why this is not good.

If there's an emergency, people who are high have a less chance of surviving.

You have failed to answer my question about high school students.

I asked you if you believe it should also be legal for high school students to get it too.

In a debate you must be fair and answer your opponent's questions.

You can not simply pick and chose what you wish to argue.

Another thing to consider is that Marijuana would cost the government money in health care.

Since there is no doubt that Marijuana will harm people, there is no doubt more people will go to the doctor due to health problems.

Research studies propose that the use of marijuana during pregnancy may result in premature babies and in low birth weights.

Studies of women and men have a temporary loss of fertility.

These findings suggest that the drug may be especially damaging throughout adolescence, a stage of rapid physical and sexual growth.

You have one more round left, I encourage you to make an argument on why it should be legalized instead of just trying to refute me.

Also, please answer my question.

Audience, there is still one more round left, but I heavily urge a Con vote.

It is obvious that there are health risks, something that the United States does not need or want.

I have another strong point, probably my strongest, but that I will save for my last argument.

I thank my opponent and again look forward to his response.

Sources:
(1). http://www.quit4good.com...
(2). http://www.nida.nih.gov...
(3). http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 3
applesnacks

Pro

applesnacks forfeited this round.
Koopin

Con

My opponent has forfeited, he must realizes that it would be much to harmful to legalize the drug in the United States.

I said that I would mention another point, my strongest.

But I have realized that it would not be fair because my opponent could not attempt to refute it.

My opponent has failed to answer my questions, failed to refute my claims, and has forfeited.

I thank him for this debate and I thank the audience also. I heavily urge a Con vote for obvious reasons. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
No, you don't have to. But people do tend to like them. And they are good because you can see what you need to improve.
Posted by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
oh great, do we have to go and justify all of our votes now every time we vote?

Well, I voted the way I did because I felt like it. Xp
Posted by InquireTruth 7 years ago
InquireTruth
RFD:
Conduct: Con - due to pro's forfeit
Spelling and Grammar: Tie - though applesnacks made the egregious error of misspelling in the title of the debate, both debaters had their fair share of grammatical and syntactical mistakes.
Convincing Arguments: Con - Koopin did a good job showing that fiscal benefit is not enough of an impetus to outweigh the harmful ramifications.
Sources: Tie - both had them and I'm not going to read them.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
I hate how this debate ended 15 minutes ago and pwnunoob voted all 7 points 14 minutes ago.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
okay.
Posted by applesnacks 7 years ago
applesnacks
I didn't say any rules at the top, wouldn't be fair to impose some now
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
There were no rules. But if my opponent wants to agree to that, then that i fine. The only problem with that would be that applesnacks could not start anything new. And he really needs some more reasons why it should be legalized. Just leave a comment what you want to do applesnacks
Posted by applesnacks 7 years ago
applesnacks
True, probably should have said PF rules
Posted by 146190 7 years ago
146190
"I have another strong point, probably my strongest, but that I will save for my last argument."

Koopin, aren't you not allowed to bring in new points in your last rebuttal, since your opponent doesn't have the chance to refute it?
Posted by applesnacks 7 years ago
applesnacks
ya...I know...marijana ftw
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Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
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