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In the West, men look at women as a sexual object

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/1/2015 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,755 times Debate No: 74588
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (21)
Votes (1)




Today in some societies, particularly in the West a woman can walk semi-naked in public, swim topless, patronize bars and clubs, smoke, drink, dance in discos and have sex with anybody she feels like.She can even serve her boyfriend, like an unpaid prostitute, and be free to murder her unborn baby if she falls pregnant. She can also compete in the business world by using her body to promote commercial commodities. At the end of the day she will be regarded as a truly 'liberated' woman.

Look at the glossy cover of any magazine or advertisements on TV and newspaper, you will find that most of these advertisements have scantily dressed women in alluring poses to attract the attention of men. This proves that the Western society considers woman only as a sex symbol.

A truly liberated woman always dresses decently and modestly. A true woman will never degrade her body and sell her dignity to the highest bidder. No woman is truly liberated if she is still the slave of her wayward conscience, bodily lust or infidelity.

But as we see in the West, women show off their bodies and make men look at them as a sexual object.
Does this facf respect women and give them high status?


Well, Julia5678,

Thank you for the opportunity to debate this topic with you.

I believe that you are making a number of false assumptions in your opening assertions.

Much of what you are saying can easily be corrected with a few lessons in logic.

You switch, somewhat irrationally and illogically, back and forth between what a so-called "liberated" woman can do in some western societies and what men must do. That is completely fallacious and unwarranted. Men do not have to do anything and neither do women. In western societies, they are free, unlike in many other despotic regimes where they are forced to do certain things.

The logical fallacies here are so obvious that you state that a girlfriend "can" do certain things and then jump to the false conclusion that men have to do certain things in response.

Your last paragraph is truly stupefying. Women "make" men do things in your odd world-view. Really? Can you psychologically explain how a woman compels a man to do something?

The logic here is so far-fetched and you have a great deal of explaining to do but I am patient.

Please show "cause-and-effect" reasoning, if it is true that a women can force and compel a man to do some particular act.

Just to clarify, you will be arguing that women who are not fully clothed and veiled according to Islamic tradition are compelling men (who have mysteriously lost any choice or free-will) to look at them as sex objects.

I will happily argue the contrary.
Debate Round No. 1


Ok, forst of all let's check out this facts

- Some Facts about Sexual Assults
Nearly 1,900 women are raped every day in America, according to a study released on Thursday that paints a much grimmer picture than US Justice Department figures announced earlier this week.
The National Victim Center, which promotes the rights of victims of violent crime, said 1.3 adult women are raped every minute and 683,000 US women are raped each year, based on a survey of more that 4,000 women, including 579 rape victims. One in eight adult American women has been raped, bringing the total of rape victims to at least 12.1 million, it said.
The survey indicated that 61 per cent of all rape cases involve women under 18 and that 29 percent of all rapes occurred when the victim was less than 11 years old. - Reuters (Source: MID-DAY Bombay 25-4-92)
Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996)
Sexual assault is down by half since 1993, yet there were still 248,000 sexual assaults in 2001.
About 10% of sexual assault victims are men.
One in six American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape.
About 2/3 of sexual assaults are committed by someone who is known to the victim.Less than 39% of sexual assaults are reported to law enforcement.About 44% of rape victims are under age 18; about 15% are under age 12.
(Most numbers in the above charts have been rounded. All data compiled by RAINN from US Justice Department, Bureau of Justice Statisics: National Crime Victimization Survey 2001 and prior years; Sex Offenses and Offenders 1997) [1]
According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age 12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice)
Two new studies of adolescent girls have found that 1 in 4 has been sexually or physically abused or forced by a date to have sex against her will. (New York Times, 10/1/97)
Every 90 seconds, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN). RAINN calculation based on 1999 USDOJ NCVS data.)
Globally, at least one in three women and girls had been beaten or sexually abused in her lifetime. (UN Commission on the Status of Women, 2/28/00)
A new report suggests that one in five adolescent girls become the victims of physical or sexual violence, or both, in a dating relationship. (New York Times, 8/01/01)
In 2002, there were 247,730 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2002 National Crime Victimization Survey,]
Of these approximately 248,000 victims, about 87,000 were victims of completed rape, 70,000 were victims of attempted rape, and 91,000 were victims of sexual assault. [2002 NCVS]
Up to 4,315 pregnancies may have resulted from these attacks. [RAINN calculation based on 2002 NCVS and medical reports.Because of the methodology of the National Crime Victimization Survey, these figures do not include victims 12 or younger. While there are no reliable annual surveys of sexual assaults on children, the Justice Department has estimated that one of six victims are under age 12. [Child Rape Victims, 1992]
Approximately 48% of victims are raped by a friend or acquaintance; 30% by a stranger; 16% by an intimate; 2% by another relative; and in 4% of cases the relationship is unknown. [2000 NCVS.]
One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape;2.8% attempted rape)
Age 12-34 are the highest risk years. Risk peaks in the late teens: girls 16 to 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 NCVS.]

- The Cause
Do you know why the number of rape cases are too many? I tell you why. Basically, men get sexually excited when they look at women passionately. And women get sexually excited when they are touched.
You cannot deny that in the West, women walk in streets semi-naked and show off their bodies. So when lustful men look at their naked bodies, they get sexually excited. Men have to satisfy their sexual desires, so if they are married, they have sex with their wives. But if they are single, they try to date the women who show off their bodies and sleep with them. In some cases, the married men sleep with other women too.
As a result, we understand that the main reason that makes men rape women is showing off their bodies. If women covered themselves and wore modest covering like Muslims، no man would think about having sex with them, no man would look at them as a sexual object to satisfy their desires.
Science has confirmed that visual stimulation plays a predominant role in the physiology of men compared to women. The fact that the sex-industry in the West is targeted towards the male-market confirms it.

- Illegitimate Children and sex outside of Marriage
Andrea Williams, a director at the Christian Legal Centre, said that the figures demonstrate that "we are not holding the importance of marriage in its rightful place".
"If we are not careful it is a ticking time bomb as we are not respecting things that hold society together and allow it to flourish.
"If we don"t hold that dear then this will have massive repercussions for future generations," said Ms Williams.
Anastasia de Waal, director of family and education at Civitas, the thinktank, said that the figures provide a "fascinating insight" into social change.
She said: "There is a popular notion that marriage is dead. But although the figures show that there has been a decline the numbers are not that different.
"Where there is a big change is in the number of divorces and the number of children born out of marriage."
Ms de Waal said that the figures reflect an increasing trend for couples to co-habit - rather than marry " and a greater acceptance by society of people having babies outside of marriage. [2]

An important indication of changing attitudes toward family formation is the rapidly rising trend of births outside of marriage. Back in 1960, births outside of marriage were virtually unheard of and were often kept as secret as possible. Fifty years ago, people were expected to marry first and then start a family. Future grandparents often grew impatient waiting for that first grandchild.
Times have certainly changed. In many countries today, nonmarital childbearing has become routine. The pressure seems to be off, as the younger generation lives differently than earlier generations.
In 2011, 40 percent of births in the European Union took place outside of traditional marriage. [3]

- The Cause
The number of illegitimate babies is increasing and couples no longer desire to marry. Do you know why? First, we should know why men get married. The main reason that man marry is to fulfill their sexual desires. Most men get married just because they need women for having sex. But nowadays, no man in the West wants to get married. Because he can easily sleeps with whomever he wants.
Can it not prove that men look at women as sexual object? Can it not prove that men only wants women for having sex? If it is wrong, so why do they kill the innocent babies when they impregnant women?

- What are the disadvantages of showing off body?
Becoming an easy target of anti-social elements.Causing great stresses, insecurity and suspicion in the minds of husbands, ultimately disturbing the familial harmony.
Instigating young people to deviate towards the path of lust and immorality.
Giving rise to cases of divorce, adultery, rape and illegitimate children.

At the end, I want to share a video. Do not post your argument unless you watch it. This video is about a woman who walks in the streets of New York City. Once she shows off her body and another time she cover herself. You can clearly see how men reacts in both situations





Alright. Thank you again, Julia5678, for introducing this topic.

My opponent is arguing that men look at women as sex objects in western societies and I am arguing against that claim.

Either showing (1) that men everywhere have this tendency to view women as sex objects, or (2) that men, in general, no matter what their cultural background do not view women as sex objects is sufficient to undermine her claim. That means that I have a fair amount of flexibility in terms of what I need to show and that she has assumed a fairly large burden of proof.

As we read her text, we need to ask ourselves if her claims are gender-specific or gender-essential or whether they are culture-bound.

If the former is true, then she would have to forfeit the debate. Let me explain. If she makes and demonstrates a claim that would hold true universally of a particular gender, then it would not matter whether we are talking about western societies or non-western societies. The point is that it hold true as a gender trait or characteristic regardless of culture.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that women blink their eyes more than men. It just happens to be the case and it is gender-based. Well, then, no one could legitimately argue that western societies, qua culture, produce women that blink their eyes more than men. Naturally, it would be asserting a logical tautology but it wouldn't mean anything significant. In other words, it just so happens that women blink more and therefore that western societies feature women who blink more. "So what?" you might ask. Exactly. So what?

Let's see what my opponent has to offer in terms of evidence for her claim.

She provides many statistics on rape. Some of these statistics are about women and some include male-on-male rape. Confusingly, she even cites global rape statistics. Citing global rape statistics undermines her claim since she is arguing a culture-bound, non-gender-essential case (see my clarification above).

Additionally, there is another problem. How is she going to link rape statistics to her claim? After all, her claim is about allowing women to dress immodestly and about turning men into creatures who look at women as sex objects. Can she pull off a link between her claim and her evidence?

Interestingly, her link between the evidence and claim is particularly weak. She writes, "Basically, men get sexually excited when they look at women passionately." Wait a minute. Isn't she arguing for a causal link between scantily clad women and men who objectify those same women? What happened here? Why the change in focus? Here, she is making the claim that only man who look "passionately" [her words] at women "get sexually excited" [her words again].

So, which is it? Is it true that men have a choice in how they look at women? Can they look at a woman "passionately" or not "passionately"? Or does the dress or garments worn by the woman compel a man to get sexually excited and to act on that impulse? The reader must take note of what an assortment of claims and assumptions have to be made in the mind of my opponent for her claims to be validated.

If men have a choice, then her argument is undermined. Is it really that simple? Yes, it is. She has objectified men by assuming that they must act as though they are causally determined machines. Men must not only look "passionately" at a women to feel this sexual excitement but they must act on it. What a sad degrading of men is in this strange world-view! What a lack of responsibility for actions that she is promoting! I honestly believe that if she were to reflect on the consequences of her argument, she would logically have to retract this extraordinary claim and give men back some choice and some accountability for their actions (for or against) women.

But my opponent does not merely objectify men as choice-less machines who must act on their impulses. She believes that this objectification justifies instituting a government policy which would mandate the sort of clothing that all woman wears outside. That is truly amazing!

Regarding assaults on women, one might guess from my opponent's statistics that rape is peculiar to western society. Not in the least! In fact, there is a wave of Muslim-based rapes going on right now:

"In Turkey,"42 percent"of women are victims of physical or sexual abuse. In Morocco, the share is"82 percent. In Egypt,"99.3 percent"of women have experienced sexual harassment." [1]

Yet according to her logic, Islamic men cannot rape there because women are fully clothed. Well, if that's the case, then we need to look elsewhere than how the women are clothed. We need to look at the choice of men. Some choose to act on their impulses (no matter how women are dressed) and some choose to act differently.

It would be a scary thought to make men responsible for their actions. But isn't that what a free society is all about?

Crime data from Norway contradicts my opponent's claim. Men in with Islamic and non-Islamic culture have different rates of rape. It is higher for Islamic men than non-Islamic. [2] Well, how can that be? The same, unveiled women are walking the streets but Islamic men act on their impulses and rape the women. [3] In my opponent's world-view, it is impossible than Islamic men rape at a higher rate than their non-Islamic counterparts since she argued that men are stimulated by visual contact with females. Therefore, we should see Islamic and non-Islamic males raping women because they are stimulated by visual contact with unveiled women!

I did watch the video that you cited in your 2nd Round regarding the men cat-calling at the woman.

Should we live in a free society where men can be held accountable for how they treat women or should we live in an un-free society where men are treated like choice-less machines who have no responsibility for their actions and can rape any woman, if they feel she is not dressed appropriately?

Let me ask you, Julia5678, what society do you choose? What sort of society are you living in now? Are you taking American freedom for granted?

In conclusion, I believe that I have demonstrated proposition #2 (cited above) which refutes your basic argument. Men do not treat women as sex objects unless they specifically choose to do so. They are not forced or compelled to look at women this way, no matter what women are wearing in public.

Thanks again for the opportunity to exchange cultural and religious views. I look forward to discussing this issue further with you.



[3] Ibid
Debate Round No. 2


There are two kinds of people; the people who are asleep and the people who pretend to be asleep. We can wake up the asleep people. But we cannot wake up those who pretend to be asleep.
And again, there are two kinds of people. The people who don't understand and the people who pretend not to understwnd. We can inform those who don't understand. But we cannot awar the second group.
Sir, which group are you in?

You said:"Can she pull off a link between her claim and her evidence?"
Yes, I can, but I didn't go to the details. I am sorry. I didn't know you are not enough wise to make a conclusion yourself.

Kathy Chin, a Chinese American, "pull off a link between my claim and my evidence"

She says:"... I wanted to obliterate by femininity. Yet that did not prevent some men from treating me as a sex object. I was mistaken. It was not my femininity that was problematic, but my sexuality, or rather the sexuality that some men had ascribed to me based on my biological sex. They reacted to me as they saw me and not as I truly am. Why should it even matter how they see me, as long as I know who I am ? But it does. I believe that men who see women as only sexual beings often commit violence against them, such as rape and battery. Sexual abuse and assault are not only my fears, but my reality.
I was molested and raped. My experiences with men who violated me have made me angry and frustrated. How do I stop the violence? How do I prevent men from seeing me as an object rather than a female? How do I stop them from equating the two? How do I proceed with life after experiencing what others only dread? The experiences have left me with questions about my identity. Am I just another Chinese-American female? I used to think that I have to arrive at a conclusion about who I am, but now I realize that my identity is constantly evolving." [1[

Can her sayings make you understand or should I explain more? She clearly says why men abuse and rape women: " They reacted to me as they saw me and not as I truly am... men who see women as only sexual beings often commit violence against them, such as rape and battery."

Can you give me another reason for rape other than that? Actually I should say:"Can you make an excuse to prove men rape women because women love to be raped?"

Then you claimed that women are raped in some Islamic countries such as Turkey and Morocco. Do you know what your problem is? You do not know anything about Turkey and Morocco. These so-called Islamic countries have banned Hijab and wearing modest covering. [2] [3]
I said men look at women as sex object and rape, because women show off their bodies. And what can reduce the number of rape cases? Women cover their bodies and wear hijab. As the Quran says:" O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful." (33:59)

Allah says if ccover their bodies, they are not abused.
Let's see what Kathy has to say:
" One experience that was particularly educational was when I "dressed up" as a Muslim woman for a drive along Crenshaw Boulevard with three Muslim men as part of a newsmagazine project. I wore a white, long-sleeved cotton shirt, and a flowery silk scarf that covered my head, which I borrowed from a Muslim woman. Not only did I look the part, I believed I felt the part. Of course, I wouldn't really know what it feels like to be Hijabed-I coined this word for the lack of a better term-everyday, because I was not raised with Islamic teachings. However, people perceived me as a Muslim woman and did not treat me as a sexual being by making cruel remarks. I noticed that men's eyes did not glide over my body as has happened when I wasn't Hijabed. I was fully clothed, exposing only my face."
"I covered up that day out of choice, and it was the most liberating experience of my life. I now see alternatives to being a woman. I discovered that the way I dress dictated others' reaction towards me. It saddens me that this is a reality. It is a reality that I have accepted, and chose to conquer rather than be conquered by it. It was my sexuality that I covered, not my femininity."

I said:" in the West, men look at women as a sexual object.". Because the number of illegitimate children and rape cases are more than other societies and Western women expose their bodies. But if you disageee, I admit that all men from all around the world, including you, look at women as sex object. Only hijabed women are safe from their lustful gaze. It is better, right?

Many women are really unhappy when guys"treat them like sex objects, staring at"their lips, chest, legs, and"butts and obviously undressing them with their eyes. It"s not uncommon for a"guy to just check the girl out or think about how hot she is and how much fun"she would be"in bed instead of listening to what she has to say during a friendly conversation, a business meeting or on a date with someone she barely knows and just recently met. Some men are better about hiding this than others.
Being treated like a sex object naturally happens more to the more physically attractive and/or provocatively dressed"women and can indeed be annoying and frustrating especially when a woman is trying to work as hard as she can to assert herself as an educated, intelligent and successful individual, who wants to make a statement in this world not only as a woman but as a professional. [4]

Then you talked about free society? What is a free society? How do you define it? A society where men and women can do everything and there is no blame upon them? A society where girls have sex at 13-15 and get pregnant illegaly? A society where following sexual desires is called liberation? A society where wearing modest covering is called oppression? No matter where I live, tell me which society is free.






Thank you, Julia, for your last response. This is an important and fascinating topic.

I ask you to bear in mind that your resolution has to do specifically with whether men, in the west, do look as women as sex objects. So, again, I repeat my previous challenges to you. If we are talking about something that is gender-essential or gender-based, then it would quickly put to rest your resolution.

Let me explain. If all men, everywhere, look at women as a "sex object," it refutes your point. It refutes your point because then men, in all geographic areas would do this "sex objectification."

Perhaps you misunderstood the resolution to be debate because now it seems that you are shifting your argument.

Despite the refutation that would result from this "gender-essential" argument, I believe it to be more plausible to hold that some or certain males regard women as "sex objects" regardless of what society or culture we are talking about.

I believe that the evidence which I have cited demonstrates this rather plainly. In Norway, there are no sexual assaults against women except those perpetrated by men with a different cultural background who believe women need to be veiled. So, the mere fact that they come from this culture makes them think that women are sex objects for them to be sexually fulfilled. But the other men who do not have this cultural orientation do not sexually assault women, even though women are allowed to dress any way that they want in public.

In fact, the video that you cited at the end of Round 2 actually helps my case in showing that certain men regard women as sex objects. Many men did not react at all to the female walker, no matter what she was wearing. This indicates that there are some men who are going to view women as sex objects regardless of what they wear. What we need to focus on is the particular group of men who need help or treatment for thinking that all women belong to them sexually. Perhaps this men have been abused as children or have other unaddressed issues in their lives. Perhaps they feel powerless and so they lash out against women. Rape is more of a "power" issue than a "sexual" one.

The new evidence that you cite from Kathy Chin is interesting but it does not demonstrate that veiled women would fare any better than non-veiled women since the philosophy behind it holds that men are animals or machines and have a right to act on their impulses. In fact, it's worse. This philosophy of determinism holds that men have no choice whatsoever. They are biologically destined to not only view women as sex objects but treat them as such. Kathy Chin's testimony also refutes the claim that you made since it is "gender-essential" and treats the whole class of men in one way rather than just "western society."

But we know that this cannot be true. Men have moral responsibility for their actions. They might entertain a lustful thought but they can choose to act or not act on a lustful thought. You even admitted this earlier in Round 2 when you suggested that a man would have to look "passionately" at a woman who is not fully clothed.

If that's the case, then we can assign responsibility to men and men have a choice about how they view women. They do not have to view women as sex objects; they can simply look the other way.

If some woman chooses to dress immodestly, that is her right in society. Men can choose not to obsess over what she is wearing and look the other way.

That is certainly preferable to the government mandating that all females must wear a certain type of headdress in public in order to avoid being viewed as a "sex object."

Thanks again for the interaction on this topic and I look forward to the next round.
Debate Round No. 3


Julia5678 forfeited this round.


Thank you again for the opportunity to exchange viewpoints on this topic.

Perhaps, you are busy at the moment.

Take your time in responding. No rush.

We'll discuss this topic further in the final round.
Debate Round No. 4


Julia5678 forfeited this round.


Vote con!!
Debate Round No. 5
21 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by makhdoom5 2 years ago
dumb language with no class.
Posted by theisticscuffles 2 years ago
It is important to try to speak English in this forum.
Posted by makhdoom5 2 years ago
women to be sex object is imposed on western society by zionist campaign. i cant say any more.
its so long u cant imagine.
or u can say a group of peoples so tiny group of peoples who are playing with whole civilization.
Posted by makhdoom5 2 years ago
well salam u took i read your RDF. long stories. lol
u can just say one word. forfeit thats enough
Posted by makhdoom5 2 years ago
hahhaha yes they do.
Posted by theisticscuffles 2 years ago

Do they even allow voting periods for 6 months on this site?

I was definitely not aware of that.
Posted by theisticscuffles 2 years ago

Very thorough analysis.

I'm going to read and re-read your comments to learn for future debates.

The big difficulty, at least that I observed, was that Pro was assuming an unusually
cumbersome burden of proof, particularly by the qualifying phrase "In the west"
as though a specific trait has to be manifest here and only in a certain gender.

I almost felt guilty not having a larger burden of proof myself.
Posted by salam.morcos 2 years ago
RFD (Part 1)

I dislike debates which are full of red herrings.

Conduct: Pro ff, not to add that Pro becomes rude when saying "I didn't know you are not enough wise" 1 point to Con.
Grammar/Spelling & Sources: Tied. Regarding sources, Pro made many claims without providing a source, but I decided to give a tie because she provided other sources.

(I am doing my very best to remain neutral!)

Pro argues that women in the west dress and behave indecently, and such women are looked at by men as sex objects. Pro uses the example of women in magazine covers as evidence. Pro argues that when "women show off their bodies [this makes]* men look at them as a sexual object". Con successfully challenges Pro's evidence and demands that Pro proves the causality between women's clothing to men's behavior.

Con argues that "Men do not have to *do* anything". I don't think Con answered Pro's. While men can *do* anything, that doesn't prove that they still don't view women as a sex objects. No points to Con.

Round 1: Tied. Pro made claims without proof. Con didn't make any arguments.

Pro argues that the high number of rape cases is a result of men getting sexually excited when they look at women passionately. I think Pro meant to say "sexually" here, not passionately and Con uses this against Pro. Con gets a point of exploiting this mistake.

Pro continues by conclude that the cause of rape is women "showing off their bodies". She argues that if they were covered (like hijab) no man would think of having sex with them. (She provides video as evidence). Con crushed Pro on this argument as he showed that women in Muslim countries have a significantly higher rate of rape! Pro tried to save this argument in the next argument by stating that women in some of the countries Con cited don't wear hijab, but that's a weak defense. Con wins this argument.
Posted by salam.morcos 2 years ago
RFD (Part 2)

About the video, I think this was Pro's strongest argument, showing that women with hijab are treated differently. Con does a good job by using this against Pro by showing how the majority of men didn't do anything, and this became Con's only "evidence" that supports his claim. He argued that while some people see women as a sex object, most don't. Con could have argued that the source is biased and unreliable, but because he didn't I will dismiss this. Overall, Con wins this argument because the proposition was "In the West, men look at women as a sexual object" Pro didn't say "some men"

Pro's argument regarding "Illegitimate Children and sex outside of Marriage" is a red herring. Con didn't exploit this mistake.

Con argument about gender-specific and culture-bound are valid, but I don't think it undermines Pro's arguments. If Pro's claim is true, it would be both gender-specific (men see all women who reveal their skin as sex objects) and culture-bound (most of woman in the west are reveal their skin, unlike the rest of the world). No point to Con.

Con argument from Norway that there's very little rape even though women are free to dress in any way is a very strong argument.

Pro brings a good argument about Kathy Cain. Con counters by saying that veiled women won't fair better. While Con is correct here, it doesn't answer the subject that women are viewed as sex objects. It only challenges the solution proposed by Pro. Pro wins this sub argument.

I vote Con.
Posted by makhdoom5 2 years ago
why not buddy instigate the debate with rules i will mention.
voting period for 6 months.
no spell and grammar points to both parties.
5 rounds with max limit.
and other rules i will see when u present your opening argument with your rules.
and also resolution.
resolution must be sensible and burden of proof would be on u coz u are challenging me here.
if u agree we are good to go.
post your link with debate and put me as your opponent not open debate.
finally last thing u must agree all my rules of debate when i will present on my turn first round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by salam.morcos 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments