The Instigator
Amethist17
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
semipro05
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points

In the united states, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the c

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,683 times Debate No: 14536
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

Amethist17

Con

Con

I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice, Abraham Lincoln. Because it is that I believe that it is the jobs of the juvenile Justice system to teach juveniles the wrongs of their actions and to help them grow into productive members of society I must negate the resolution: In the united states, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.
Before starting my argument I would like to offer a few definitions
Juvenile: According to Cornell University Law School, person who has not attained his eighteenth birthday; Physiologically immature or undeveloped.

Violent Felonies: a crime consisting of conduct that presents a serious risk of potential injury to another or that is punishable by imprisonment for more than one year Merriam Webster

Justice: the quality of being just, impartial or fair Merriam Webster
Ought: used to express a moral obligation Merriam Webster's dictionary.

My value for this debate is justice and this value is the most important within this debate because the resolution bases its self in the united states legal system and my criteria is the preservation of human rights. In this debate I will discuss two points
First juveniles need to be allowed to rehabilitation
Sub point: death penalty has been ruled as cruel and unusual punishment for juveniles
Second Juveniles are subject to sexual abuse in state prisons

Contention I
Juveniles need to be allowed to rehabilitate.
According to Cornell University Law School a juvenile is someone who has not reached physiological maturity and therefore they are not psychologically capable to make adult decisions and it would be unjust to treat a juvenile as an adult when he does not have the same mental capacity as one. In the 2002 juvenile justice and delinquency prevention act states that "Congress must act now to reform this program by focusing on juvenile delinquency prevention programs, as well as programs that hold juveniles accountable for their acts and which provide opportunities for competency development" to me this say that there are programs that not only holds juveniles accountable for the actions but also helps them reform and become productive parts of society without the chance to rehabilitation these juveniles will have lost life without having the chance to experience it.

Sub point a: the death penalty has been ruled a cruel and unusual punishment.

In the supreme court case Roper v. Simmons Oct. 13 2004 the supreme court ruled that the State can exact forfeiture of some of the most basic liberties, but the State cannot extinguish his life and his potential to attain a mature understanding of his own humanity.
Side note life in prison has also been ruled a cruel and unusual punishment in may 2010 according to the New York Times.

Contention II

Juveniles are subject to sexual abuse in state prisons

Consider Rodney Hulin Jr., who was a 16-year-old when he was convicted of arson. A first-time offender with no casualties and a slight figure at 5 feet 2 inches tall and some 125 pounds, he was sent to a men's prison. There, he was the smallest person around. Within a week, he was raped, according to an account by Human Rights Watch, an advocacy group. Rodney asked to be placed in protective custody, but he was denied. His father, Rodney Hulin Sr., picks up the story: "For the next several months, my son was repeatedly beaten by the older inmates, forced to perform oral sex, robbed, and beaten again. ... He could no longer stand to live in continual terror."
Rodney Jr. hanged himself. Do you think that it is fair or just to put a juvenile in this position that compromises his right to safety? This is not the only case of abuse in state prisons. More than 16 percent of juveniles in Louisiana prisons report being sexually abused according to the lens July 2010 and this is just one states statistics it is completely unjust and a total violation of human rights to subject children to adult prisons where they can be sexually harassed and abused.

Because juveniles need the opportunity to rehabilitate, both the death penalties and life in prison is unjust and because juveniles are subject to sexual abuse in state prisons I must negate the resolution In the united states, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system. If you value justice and human rights vote for the negative. It is the job of the justice system to teach youth the wrongs of their actions and to help them grow into productive members of society. Justice should never be unjust.
semipro05

Pro

I stand to affirm: Resolved: In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system.

VALUE
The value for the round is justice, defined as giving each their due. This is the most important value within the round, because the resolution bases itself in the US legal system, the primary purpose of which is to deliver justice. Thus, justice is the most appropriate value to use.

CRITERION
The criterion for the round is utilitarianism, defined as doing the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people. By acting in the best interests of the greatest portion of society, utilitarianism is able to bring justice to more people and to widely effect the welfare of society more than any other criterion, making it the most important standard in the round.

C-1 MISCONDUCT INDICATES RECIDIVISM LIKELIHOOD
On a more practical level, research on the relationship of misconduct to recidivism can provide important information to practitioners charged with the release of state delinquents from juvenile incarceration. Notwithstanding other important benefits to examining the misconduct–recidivism relation- ship, this study suggests that misconduct may still provide some insight into the recidivism of youth as they transition from juvenile incarceration to freedom and from late adolescence into young adulthood. As mentioned, offenders transitioning from juvenile incarceration are, as a whole and as supported by post release recidivism research, still largely on the escalation side of the aggregate age–crime curve and represent some of the most risky juvenile offenders relative to re-offending. Involvement in institutional misconduct may signal a risk for continuity in offending post release and, at the least, the need for heightened attention to such offenders. As such, further attention should be placed on misconduct as part of the repertoire of information in terms of deciding who should get released and, perhaps more important, when they should be released. Almost all state juvenile commitments will eventually be released directly from juvenile incarceration (as opposed to adult prison transfer, for example), and with that fact in mind, institutional misconduct may serve as an additional early warning whereby further intervention efforts could be explored before release and transition back to society. Specific to the sample in this study, the results also suggest that such decisions should also give further credence to delinquent history variables, for example, gang membership and the length and seriousness of previous offending, including substance abuse history. These variables also appear relevant as an early warning sign for those offenders who may need different or lengthier services prior to their release from institutionalization to improve their chances for success post release.

C-2 THE TRANSFER SYSTEM IS CONSISTENT
Comparisons between sentencing outcomes for juveniles transferred to criminal court and other adult offenders have an advantage in that both groups are sentenced by the same set of judges who have at their disposal the same disposition options (Kurlychek & Johnson, 2004). Similarly, the same statutes govern the sentencing of all defendants who are disposition in criminal court in a particular state, whereas juvenile court defendants are typically sentenced under a state's juvenile code. When making comparisons, these distinctions may be important because many states currently have guidelines in place which structure the sentencing of criminal defendants; however, because of the juvenile court's rehabilitative design, most state juvenile codes allow for individualized and indeterminate sentences. Thus, a better understanding of the effects of being waived to criminal court may be gained by comparing juveniles transferred to criminal court to other adult offenders who are processed in the same court .

C-3 RECIDIVISM HAS ALTERIOR CAUSES
Sub A- RECIDIVISM IS NOT BASED ON INSTITUTIONAL MISCONDUCT
Serious and Violent Delinquent Offenders, July 20, 2009
Based on data from 1,804 serious and violent male delinquents released from a large southern juvenile correctional system, this research found limited support for institutional misconduct as a determinant of recidivism. Of all measures of misconduct, only the rate of total misconduct infractions was related to post release rearrest, and this effect was generally small and found only in the rearrest frequency model, not the dichotomous rearrest model.

Sub B- FACTORS THAT ARE THOUGHT TO DETERMINE RECIDIVISM RATES NOW ARE BASED ON ASSUMPTIONS, NOT DATA THAT CORRELATE THEM
There is growing recognition that institutional misconduct may be an important determinant of recidivism following release from institutionalization. It is unfortunate that misconduct behavior while institutionalized has generally been disconnected from an understanding of post release recidivism out- comes, and little empirical research exists on this subject for adult or juvenile offenders. Measures of offender behavior pre incarceration, such as prior arrests and delinquent adjudications, have been staples in recidivism research involving juvenile offenders in particular the body of recent recidivism research on institutionalized and released juvenile offenders. The lack of research on the relationship of institutional misconduct to recidivism is thus surprising considering that misconduct behavior is a key indicator of continuity in delinquent and other antisocial behaviors. Moreover, factors found determinative of misconduct among institutionalized delinquent offenders are some of the same factors that have traditionally provided insight into post release recidivism.

My opponent has gone off the topic of this resolved. Which stats and I quote Juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be TREATED as adults in the criminal justice system, not the jails or rehab centers so if the public who decides the victory please keep that in mind. Right now I am not going to continue on that subject since that alone my opponents case is null and void.
Debate Round No. 1
Amethist17

Con

allowing juveniles to be treated as an adults if they are convicted puts them in an adult state prision there for not null and void.
your whole argue ment is about recidivism and according to the sentenceing guidelines commision a juvenile who went through adult prision has a higher risk of recidivism

and like i also said in my arguement a juvenile needs the opertunity to rehabiltate and they have a less chance of being sentcenced to a rehablitation program along with the correct consequences of their actions in an adult court.

your value is justice yet through out your entire case i have yet to see how putting a child in adult court leads to justice so there your value of justice falls

\you have also failed to atack my value of justice and my caule criteria of human rights so they stand to the next round
you have also faild to atk my first contention ofjuveniles neededing to be allowed to rehabiltate. so it continues to the next round

we are going in ld format yes?
semipro05

Pro

semipro05 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Amethist17

Con

what does a forfit mean?
semipro05

Pro

Seeing that this is the last any of us will be typing i would like to go over just a few key points in today's debate.
ONE
my opponent has not given any evidence to refute my argument and has not defended hers in any way. So as of now she has no case. Her points are not Topical and not even part of the Resolved. The Resolved is that we treat them like adults not sentence them as adults. Which means we can have them in a Juvenile court and treat them as adults.
TWO
She has not attacked my case in anyway. There fore my case stands strong and the better of the two based on the stats and reasoning in today's debate.
THREE
For the ones who are Judging Please keep in mind that my case is the stronger of the two and has not been attacked, while I attacked my oppoents case and there was no defense fron my oppoent so she must have accepted the facts.

So in this Debate i can only see that i Have won Because my opponent has not defended her cases so accepts my points against it and she has not attacked my cases at all so therefore she agrees with my case as a whole, and i have Stated my case brought more evidence forth in the debate.

I thank my opponent for challenging me and for this Debate as well.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dakota-Hiltzman 6 years ago
Dakota-Hiltzman
Hooray! Thank you for this debate :3 This helps me a lot.
Posted by semipro05 6 years ago
semipro05
Sorry...
Posted by semipro05 6 years ago
semipro05
The reason for the 7 points i did was to find out who are the Commy's on this site who vote on the other based on the debaters personal views but if u want my real vote here it is...
Posted by Amethist17 6 years ago
Amethist17
when i say sources sited i mean actually in the debate clarifying :}
Posted by Amethist17 6 years ago
Amethist17
cobo thanks for your vote i sincerely hope however that you didnt vote for me simply because he voted for himself i belivie that we have the right to vote how ever we feel the debate went. but ty anyway
Posted by Cobo 6 years ago
Cobo
Pro voted for himself.
Uncalled for
Posted by semipro05 6 years ago
semipro05
i didnt mean to forfit i just been away from a computer for a while but...it means i have no argument for that one...
Posted by Amethist17 6 years ago
Amethist17
well considering that neg was the one that offerd the speech only thought fair to give first argue ment what does a forfit mean?
Posted by BlackVoid 6 years ago
BlackVoid
"we are going in ld format yes?"

Doesnt look like it. You broke ld format in round 1 by being neg but going first. Pro is supposed to go first and as such, doesnt have to refute anything in their first speech.
Posted by semipro05 6 years ago
semipro05
Resources

Dr Chad Trulson, Dr Matt DeLisi, Dr James Marquart, professors at the University of North Texas, Iowa State University, and the University of Texas, respectively, Institutional Misconduct, Delinquent Background, and Rearrest Frequency Among Serious and Violent Delinquent Offenders, July 20, 2009

Benjamin Steiner, assistant professor of criminology and criminal justice at the University of South Carolina, The Effects of Juvenile Transfer to Criminal Court on Incarceration Decisions, March 2009

Benjamin Steiner, assistant professor of criminology and criminal justice at the University of South Carolina, The Effects of Juvenile Transfer to Criminal Court on Incarceration Decisions, March 2009

Dr Chad Trulson, Dr Matt DeLisi, Dr James Marquart, professors at the University of North Texas, Iowa State University, and the University of Texas, respectively, Institutional Misconduct, Delinquent Background, and Rearrest Frequency Among Serious and Violent Delinquent Offenders, July 20, 2009

Dr Chad Trulson, Dr Matt DeLisi, Dr James Marquart, professors at the University of North Texas, Iowa State University, and the University of Texas, respectively, Institutional Misconduct, Delinquent Background, and Rearrest Frequency Among Serious and Violent Delinquent Offenders, July 20, 2009
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Cobo 6 years ago
Cobo
Amethist17semipro05Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro voted for himself. Wayyy uncalled for
Vote Placed by semipro05 6 years ago
semipro05
Amethist17semipro05Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:34 
Vote Placed by Amethist17 6 years ago
Amethist17
Amethist17semipro05Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: attendence is important in conduct, i have horrid gramer. i think that both of us made convincing arguments and i beilieve i sited more sources and that they were more concrete but thats my opinion :}