The Instigator
MaryeaH
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
vamplifequeen
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Incarceration vs Treatment

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MaryeaH
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/10/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 848 times Debate No: 66720
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

MaryeaH

Pro

1.)Incarceration is the state of being confined in prison.
2.)Incarceration is a form of punishment for someone who has done something wrong or illegal.
3.)Punishment is the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
4.)It would be wrong to punish someone for something in which they could not help.
5.)Pedophilia is an illness and not a crime.
6.)If we punish someone for something they cannot help, we are acting unreasonable.
7.)Acting unreasonable is bad.
8.)Acting unreasonable towards someone by punishment of incarceration, focuses mainly on the offense and not always the offender.
9.)Treatment focuses on the offender and not the offense.
10.)Treatment is medical care given to someone for an illness or injury; it can also be psychological and medical interventions.
11.)If we treat a pedophile, we can prevent relapses and also reduce reoffending.
12.)Preventing relapses and reducing re-offense is good.
13.)With incarceration, pedophiles are confined for a set period of time and then later put back into communities.
14.)If we put pedophiles back into communities without proper treatment, we are just asking for another occurrence of pedophilia.
15.)Another occurrence of pedophilia is bad.
16.)Other negative consequences are acceptable in the light of treatment such as more money being spent and time consuming in the light of pedophilia benefits.
17.)Therefore, persons convicted of a pedophilic crime ought to be treated and not incarcerate in all instances.

Non-Controversial: 1.), 2.), 3.), 4.), 6.), 7.), 10.), 12.), 13.), 15.)
Controversial: 5.) because pedophilia could result from a failure in the brain to identify which unclear motive should provoke a sexual response; in their mind the person cannot tell the act that they are committing is wrong, they believe it to be right. 8.) because when someone is incarcerated, they do not necessarily get the proper treatment that would help them to not commit the crime again; most pedophiles are isolated for their prison sentence. 9.) Even though the offender is the one that committed the offense of course, treatment can put the pedophile on the path to recovery while also addressing the root of the problem, with that being committing pedophilic acts. Treatment can also help pedophilia by reducing or preventing the expression of pedophilic behavior, managing urges and avoid committing future crimes. 11.) Sex offenders are about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison. (CNN.com); this saying that sex offenders who have already been incarcerated for a sex act will most likely be the ones to be incarcerated again. Also, there is a treatment called cognitive behavioral therapy which is known as a relapse prevention and has also been shown to reduce recidivism rates in sex offenders; if sex offenders get this treatment they are killing two birds with one stone (reducing relapses and recidivism). 14.) because once released from prison we know that sex offenders are supposed to be registered online but not all of them are, some of them are missing; we don't know where they are and where they're living. Being that the prisoner most likely did not receive treatment while in prison, we can speculate that the illness of pedophilia may not be gone; in fact it could"ve gotten even worse.
vamplifequeen

Con

1.I agree that incarceration is the state of being in prison.
2.I also agree incarceration is form of punishment for someone who has done something wrong or illegal.
3.I do agree punishment is the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense. However it is so used for handling and treatment.
4.Yes it is wrong to punish someone for something they couldn"t help, but you cant tell who really cant help themselves from the ones that can
5.Pedophilia can be considered an illness and not a crime I have to disagree, not all pedophilia have a mental disorder.
6.I agree we would be acting unreasonable.
7.It"s only unreasonable if we are punishing the right ones.
8.Treatment is giving to the offender due to the offense that was made.
9.Treatment is medical care given to someone for an illness or injury. We have people who refuse to get help.
10.Yes treatment can help pedophilia by reducing or preventing.
11. Should we really take the time to treat pedophile or just punish them all together especially for the reoccurring offenders I agree that treatment can put the pedophile on path however, we need to focus on the issue of putting them back into treatment once relapse occur.
12.Yes preventing relapse and reducing re-offense is good
13.Some pedophiles deserve to be confined for a set period of time, because some will act like they need to get treated just to be helped and go back into the community and repeat the pedophile act
14.Pedophiles do not belong back in the community nor do we need to treat them and waste our time.
15.Another occurrence of pedophilia is bad
16.Other negative consequences are acceptable in the light of treatment such as more money being spent and time consuming in the light of pedophilia benefits. Abuse treatment usage.
17.Therefore, persons convicted of pedophilic crime should not be treated but incarcerated in all instances.
Non-controversial: 1,2,3,4,6,7,10,12,13,15

Controversial 5. It doesn"t justify their act. We have laws that make it clear that pedophilic is illegal and wrong, and they have a choice to commit or not commit the act. 8. Treatment doesn"t work for everybody and some could abuse the power and say they need treatment just to pass on getting incarcerated. 9. Not all offenders have a mental disorder some actually like committing pedophilic acts. Treatment can only help for a short period of time depending on how far the person is on their pedophilic act. 11. Sex offenders have the lowest rate of recidivism of all crime categories. Evidence "based programs can reduce recidivism by up to 15 percent after prison intervention. Just because something is evidence-based doesn"t mean there aren"t assumptions. 14. Sex offender should be registered to protect others. By not having them registered, we wont be able to keep an eye out on those who have or haven"t been treated. People have the right to know who lives around them. Sex offenders are extremely dangerous and should be watched all the time just to make sure pedophilia didn"t get worse.
Debate Round No. 1
MaryeaH

Pro

Although I have stated that pedophilia is considered an illness and not a crime, I"ve never stated that the act of pedophilia can be considered justifiable. A mentally incompetent person is incapable of fully understanding their actions. If someone isn"t fully capable of understanding their actions then how can they tell what they are doing is right or wrong? Pedophilia is indeed wrong but if we apply the proper treatment to this specific illness we can prevent recidivism of this crime. Treatment wouldn"t be given out freely to everyone; a psych evaluation would be a requisite in order to be considered for treatment. With treatment we would be creating situations where the person can come in, remain anonymous, receive sex drive reducing medication, counseling, group therapy, or whatever is appropriate to the situation we're in; with incarceration the person probably would not get this much help, they would be put away mainly in isolation until their time is served. We need to be able to be dispassionate, and clinical, and think rationally about the situation, rather than giving into our first instinct which is usually to incarcerate the person. My discussion on sex offenders was not directly related to sex registry rather the prisoner did not receive proper treatment in prison. A successful treatment program would have the prisoner registered and on file to receive successive treatment after being released. This would encourage the dual goal of allowing people to be on notice of their neighbors as well as procuring treatment for the offender. There is no study that proves that treatment is only a succinct method; it is not considered a disease rather it is considered a disorder of adult personality and behavior as defined by The International Classification of Diseases by the World Health Organization. Biological, psychological, and social factors have been indicated in the basis and development of pedophilia. Social factors such as childhood abuse, as well as easy access to social platforms, including internet-pornography, have also been identified as potential contributing and/or identifying factors for pedophilia and sex offending. Allowing access to things such as these will allow someone a way to maintain a certain degree of obscurity. Pedophilic acts can be considered a cycle; these acts have probably started when that person was a child in their own home and so forth. If we can help the person to correct their ways and views on sexual orientation, it would be more helpful to not only themselves but people that they will eventually come in contact with. If we're going to find a way to stop pedophilia, the end goal and the most important thing we care about, we have to acknowledge the fact that we need to study and understand this disorder, which means understanding the people who have it. By just incarcerating them we are not getting an understanding of the people who have it we are just keeping them for a period of time and then they are released. Furthermore, the lack of research on the disorder means there is no progress being made on possible treatments. Even if as a society we dislike the idea of "helping" pedophiles, it is important that we increase our research on pedophilia; how else will we find ways and future treatments (other than the ones we have now) to prevent it? Incarceration is not really helping anyone if you look at it, it"s just a way to keep someone off the street but eventually many of them will be free again. How can incarceration help someone more than treatment?
vamplifequeen

Con

You"ve stated that "pedophilia is an illness not a crime, and a mentally incompetent person is incapable of fully understanding their actions". Sorry I will disagree with this. A pedophilia is not an illness but a crime. I don"t see how anyone could sit there and say that person who just committed a disgusted act needs help, and not imprisonment. We have thousands of men and women, who are sexually attracted to young kids and they need to be punished for that. If we decided to treat instead of treating them like it"s a crime it will be a green light for them to go ahead and continue their horrible act because they known at the end of the day, the excuse is "I cant control myself I couldn"t help it I need to get treated". That"s more children getting abused and more money coming out of citizen"s paychecks to help fund the cost of treating every individual. Isolating them until their time is done is a form of punishment just like having them incarcerated. We can"t put them with other inmates unless its one who is under the same situation and put in protective custody. Lets face it and understand that treating a pedophilia, as an illness isn"t going to help with recidivism. I understand you want them to be treated and brought back to the community and live a "normal life" but will all those circumstances once that person is known to have dealt with "illness" as you say they will always be judged for every move they make. Nobody will treat them with respect and will always be frightful of them, which will make them isolate themselves and revert back to being a pedophilia because that"s the only thing natural to them. Another thing to point out is that there will be accusations to deal with once the pedophilic person decides to commit the act again. You failed to show what will happen if the problem keeps recurring after treatment. How long do you wait in order for them to be removed form the program? Do they even deserve a second chance? Just like getting behind the wheel drunk and you end up running a person over and hurt them, you"re going to jail. Would your answer still be the same if this were a person in your own family who committed such a heinous act would you want them to be treated or imprisonment? Same question but this time it"s your own child? I guarantee your answer would very much be different. Incarceration helps by keeping them away from society therefore treatment is unnecessary.
Debate Round No. 2
MaryeaH

Pro

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, pedophilia is considered a mental disorder and not a crime. Furthermore, a mentally incompetent person is someone who is diagnosed as mentally ill or who is suffering from some other weakness that prevents them from managing their own affairs; thus it can be said that a mentally incompetent person is indeed incapable of fully understanding their actions. Also not all pedophiles are child molesters; Child molesters are defined by their acts and pedophiles are defined by their desires. Studies have shown that about half of all molesters are not sexually attracted to their victims. They often have personality disorders or violent streaks. A pedophile should be held responsible for their conduct without a doubt but not for the underlying attraction, and by treating the person it is not in no way giving a green light to commit the act again. The purpose of treating someone is to make sure that it doesn"t happen again, so how is treatment giving someone the green light to commit the act again if it"s meant to prevent it from happening? Also, when you mention money coming out of someone"s paycheck, don"t tax payers also pay for prisoners that are incarcerated? I do not see how money would be an issue in treatment where we have people that are serving life behind bars; that cost a lot of money as well. To address where you stated "Isolating them until their time is done is a form of punishment just like having them incarcerated", I am a little confused at this statement because isn"t that what happens when some is incarcerated? Aren"t they isolated? So, it can be assumed that when someone is incarcerated they are being punished but in no way are they actually receiving help for the act that was committed. Isolating someone from appropriate treatment only increases their risk of committing another crime. People are judged every day for every little thing they do, so to bring judgment into this is irrelevant. We are not concerned about how other people feel; our main concern is finding the best way to help someone to not commit certain acts again; the best way being treatment. When you say that people would be frightened of people because of this act, don"t we have some murderers that are let free after serving time? Shouldn"t people be afraid of them as well? I suppose that we can also assume that someone who was incarcerated may seek retribution after being let free from incarceration. If that person was treated instead, there is a higher chance that there would be a big difference in those persons actions. Many of the questions you have asked me seem subjective but we are not concerned about any "what ifs", it has nothing to do with how you or I feel. We are concerned about how to deal with an issue the best way possible. We have to be dispassionate as I said before to prevent these acts. If every solution was based on how someone feels, would we really be coming up with the best solution? If there is any choice in the situation, it is in how pedophiles manage their lives once they become fully aware of the direction of their sexual interests and the societal prohibitions against expressing them; treatment will assist with this. Just putting someone "away", is in no way helping them; I think people believe in incarceration because that has always seem like the best option but maybe it"s not; this is probably why we have so many overcrowded prisons. The fact that pedophilia is so despised is precisely why society response to it would be incarceration, but that doesn"t make it the best choice. Acknowledging that pedophiles have a mental disorder and removing the obstacles to their coming forward and seeking help/treatment, is not only the right thing to do but it would also advances efforts to lower pedophilic acts.
vamplifequeen

Con

Although I agree with you explaining the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, yes that"s fine cause you have information to back that up. However, you"re not getting what I"m trying to say maybe I wasn"t clear. Yes a mental person can"t think straight, but what about the ones who can help themselves but use the whole "mental disorder as an excuse. You said that about half of all molesters are not sexually attracted to their victim right? So because of that are you telling me its fine to commit the act then? You must be out your mind. At the end of the day they are having sex with underage children and it is completely wrong no if ands or buts. Its wrong and they need to face the consequences. Treatment is giving them the green light because you don"t know who really needs the "treatment as appose to those who are faking it just to get a pass. I"m sure nobody has the time to sit down there and analyze each person and figure out who needs treatment and who doesn"t. We shouldn"t be wasting are time treating them we should be treating all the victims. Yes tax payers pay for prisoners that are incarcerated because it"s a place for "punishment" to "serve time" you"re not helping the victim by treating the person who committed the crime. I don"t know why you seem to be confused about them being isolated when you yourself said that during treatment they would be isolated from the community until they get back on their feet, which is why I said it"s a form of punishment just like being incarcerated because in both situations we are prevented them from the outside world. People are afraid of all criminals lets put it that way, but yes people especially mothers would not want their kid around a person who desires children. What makes you think that once they receive treatment, do you seriously believe the world would be okay now that treatment helped them? I don"t think so they will always be judged for that. It doesn"t have anything to do with how you or I feel I simple pointed out that if you were in that situation you yourself would want that person in prison. At the end of the day this problem didn"t come through the sky, its obvious that some one in our society feels a way that they should be treated and you have others who say incarcerated. Nonetheless, incarceration is the best thing for people who have committed pedophilic acts. Treatment has its flaws it won"t work for everyone. It doesn"t work if they get kicked out or if the person decides to drop out. That"s money being wasted because you"re spending thousands for each person, whereas being incarcerated they"re in there for their time or for good. Treatment isn"t forced you cant force anybody to get help they have to want it. You don"t have to worry about losing money when the person is incarcerated because they have no choice once there are sentenced. Nobody wants a gamble; everyone was the deal at hand and therefore, disorder or not the only way to help them and keeping our streets safe is incarceration.
Debate Round No. 3
MaryeaH

Pro

1.) Incarceration is the state of being confined in prison.
2.) Incarceration is a form of punishment for someone who has done something wrong or illegal.
3.) Punishment is the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
4.) It would be wrong to punish someone for something in which they could not help.
5.) Pedophilia is an illness and not a crime.
6.) Treatment focuses on the offender and not the offense.
7.) Treatment is medical care given to someone for an illness or injury; it can also be psychological and medical interventions.
8.) If we treat a pedophile, we can prevent relapses and also reduce reoffending.
9.) With incarceration, pedophiles are confined for a set period of time and then later put back into communities.
10.) If we put pedophiles back into communities without proper treatment, we are just asking for another occurrence of pedophilia.
11.) With treatment we would be creating situations where the person can come in, remain anonymous, receive sex drive reducing medication, counseling, group therapy, or whatever is appropriate to the situation they"re in.
12.) If we're going to find a way to stop pedophilia, the end goal and the most important thing we care about, we have to acknowledge the fact that we need to study and understand this disorder, which means understanding the people who have it.
13.) By just incarcerating them we are not getting an understanding of the people who have it we are just keeping them for a period of time and then they are released.
14.) The lack of research on the pedophilia means there is no progress being made on possible treatments and even if as a society we dislike the idea of "helping" pedophiles, it is important that we increase our research on pedophilia.
15.) A pedophile should be held responsible for their conduct without a doubt but not for the underlying attraction, and by treating the person it is not in no way giving a green light to commit the act again.
16.) Acknowledging that pedophiles have a mental disorder and removing the obstacles to their coming forward and seeking help/treatment, is not only the right thing to do but it would also advances efforts to lower pedophilic acts.
17.) Therefore, persons convicted of a pedophilic crime ought to be treated and not incarcerate in all instances.

I will conclude by saying that incarceration is not the right choice for pedophilic acts, the right choice would be treatment. Incarceration has always seemed to be the first choice people would turn to when dealing with pedophilia, but there are different and better ways to handle certain situations, especially this one. We need to grow and in order for us to do that changes have to be made. For people with this type of disorder its best that we help in some way; we shouldn"t just throw them away and forget about it. We have to acknowledge the problem and handle it the best way possible. I know that when people hear of pedophiles they are immediately disgusted and want to throw them into prison, but these people need more than incarceration, they need help. We can"t just turn away from them and deny them any chance of being cured from this disorder. Treatment for pedophilia is not only the right thing to do but it would also advance efforts to lower pedophilic acts.
vamplifequeen

Con

1.I agree that incarceration is the state of being in prison.
2.I also agree incarceration is form of punishment for someone who has done something wrong or illegal.
3.I do agree punishment is the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense. However it is so used for handling and treatment.
4.Yes it is wrong to punish someone for something they couldn"t help, but you can"t tell who really can"t help themselves from the ones that can.
5.Pedophilia can be considered an illness and not a crime I have to disagree, not all pedophilia have a mental disorder.
6.I agree we would be acting unreasonable.
7.It"s only unreasonable if we are punishing the right ones.
8.Treatment is giving to the offender due to the offense that was made.
9.Treatment is medical care given to someone for an illness or injury. We have people who refuse to get help.
10.Therefore, pedophilia people should not be treated but incarcerated.

I conclude that Treatment has its flaws it won"t work for everyone. It doesn"t work if they get kicked out or if the person decides to drop out. That"s money being wasted because you"re spending thousands for each person, whereas when being incarcerated, they"re in there for their time or for good and not only are you not wasting money (because we know the person is not allowed to leave the prison of course) but you are also keeping that person off the streets and preventing them from committing another pedophilic act. Treatment isn"t forced you can"t force anybody to get help they have to want it. We have thousands of men and women, who are sexually attracted to young kids and they need to be punished for that. Treating a pedophilia, as an illness isn"t going to help with recidivism.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
MaryeaHvamplifequeenTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Tie. Both had proper conduct throughout the debate. S&G - Tie. Both had proper spelling and grammar. I would highly recommend that you put some space between those blocks of text though as it is a strain on the eyes. Arguments - Pro. The most compelling argument for Pro was that it is a mental illness, thus allowing for treatment rather than incarceration. While I do agree with Con that it is a crime and deserves punishment, there are indeed cases where treatment would be preferred and possible. Due to Con's side stating that treatment should never be an option, I'm inclined to side with Pro. Pro showed that if treatment it possible, it should be pursued, and justified this by showing the current standards for what is and is not a mental illness. Thus, Pro wins arguments. Sources - Tie. Neither utilized sources in an official capacity throughout this debate.