The Instigator
ashtronomy
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
thegravenig
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Infidelity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ashtronomy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,224 times Debate No: 20552
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

ashtronomy

Con

As I walk around the college campus, I can't help but overhear certain conversations of fellow students. Now, when people talk about something personal, you would think they'd try to lower their voices. Well, this particular girl was almost bragging as she shared a detailed story of her "one night stand," amongst her friends. These types of discussions are bound to be come up with the younger crowd, so naturally, this isn't anything new for me to hear. What really caught my attention was how she added that her, "boyfriend of 3 years had absolutely no clue." I shook my head in disbelief. It may just be my age group, the location I was in, or the liberal view on life now, but since when has a topic like this become socially acceptable? I understand the girl describing her sexual encounter wasn't married, but how could her friends condone this kind of behavior by taking their time out to listen? Where are peoples' minds at, morally? Of course, these are all rhetorical questions, but there really is some truth behind it.

I believe cheating, whether in a 6 month relationship or 10 year marriage, is completely unethical. The simple minded relevance behind is ridiculous and weak. I'm sure there are some that will argue this by saying, "she might need to experience what it's like in order to recognize her mistakes." This may sound hypocritical, but I've had my share of cheating, (I kissed someone while dating someone else.) Maybe from doing it in the past, has allowed me to see how horrible it is today. In that argument, then I agree, there could be some leeway. What about the people that don't see to their mistakes? There's far too many that cheat again, again, and again, and still manage to overcome the guilt, (if they even feel any to begin with.) Even in psychology, there are infinite factors that lead people to make their decisions in life. Cheating could be the result of how a person was raised, their peers making similar choices, their self esteem, spite, etc. The act of cheating itself is subjective as well. We've all heard someone rely on the remark: "what _______ doesn't know, won't hurt him/her," or "it's not cheating if _______ doesn't find out." The only reason why these cliches exist is because deep down people know cheating is unethical, so they try to excuse their behavior with some comical relief. I'm not trying to sound like I'm bashing those who have done it, but at least come to terms with it being entirely wrong. I understand the disagreement: "it's hard to be monogamous because we're nothing more than animals." Hey, everyone has fantasies and innate desires, but I believe as humans our decision making is a little more advanced than those of our primitive relatives. We have political figures in this country who are supposed to be the depiction of professionalism. Yet, the news often reports them being involved in sex scandals. If people high in the governmental offices are doing it, then it may offer proof why infidelity could be viewed as justifiable.

I guess you can call me old fashioned but I believe when you are with someone who trusts you, you should respect them. If the love you both share is pure and genuine, then there shouldn't be a reason to want to cheat in the first place. Granted, that's not something easy to come across, but it's not impossible to find either. Everyone has their regrets, and although admitting to something you've done wrong won't excuse it, you will ultimately be one step closer to understanding the true fundamentals of love, compassion, and appreciation.
thegravenig

Pro

Ashtronomy,

I agree with your idea that cheating is unethical in modern times, but you are making the assumption that humans beings are ethical. Let's be honest. Look at the world around us. How many people do the morally correct thing in a situation? Every individual likes to think highly of his/herself, but how many people live up to the ideal person they believe themselves to be? Human beings in general have become selfish. We all know what is right, but the average person isn't willing to sacrifice their own happiness and pleasure for a righteous cause. You are dealing with a generation that does not believe in morals (I should know because I'm part of this generation). The success rate of marriage has gone down significantly over the past 30 years. Marriage used to be a holy union separated only by death. People that got married 30 years ago tended to stay together because they believed in ideas like unconditional love, perseverence, and sacrifice. Those values seem to be few and far between lately.

I don't disagree with your ideas at all. I'm just trying to imagine it through the eyes of a cheating spouse or partner. If you omit religion and all the consequences of your actions, then what stops a person from cheating? In other words, if there was no God or figure of authority to punish you for your actions, would you do the crime? It's a classic question about the nature of human beings; it is the eternal battle of good versus evil. Would you rob a bank if you would never be caught? Would you kill someone if you wouldn't go to jail? Many would answer 'yes' to these questions.

I would like to believe, like you said, that human beings are much more complex than primates, and of course there are those few individuals whose self determination and righteous way of thinking lead them to living a moral, rich, and complex life. I adore those people, but they are very rare.

At our core, we are driven by basic human instinct. If you have ever read the book, Lord of the Flies, you know what I'm talking about. To sum up the story, a group of children were stranded on an island together. Soon, these children were driven to corrupt and immoral ways of living because society's pressure to adhere to morals was no longer there.

I know these are all abstract ideas and examples, but my point is this: people will often choose to fulfill their own desires and pursue their own happiness before the needs and wants of others. Is this selfish? Perhaps. Is it morally correct? Probably not. It happens unfortunately.

I believe in love and monogamy, and I believe it is possible to stay committed to someone forever. Cheating is immoral and harmful to everyone involved. I agree with you ashtronomy. But like I said earlier, some people recognize the right decision, and choose the wrong one just because they can.
Debate Round No. 1
ashtronomy

Con

Ah, I see where you're going with this, Con. It's difficult to debate with you because all of the points you made I initially agreed with. You're right. What is deemed 'right and wrong' and 'good and evil' are two very subjective ideas, however I think your view is a little liberal. Underlying meanings of something subjective, like politics, religion, art, literature, or morals, will always have different inflections. You're stating the most obvious: "It's a classic question about the nature of human beings; it is the eternal battle of good versus evil. Would you rob a bank if you would never be caught? Would you kill someone if you wouldn't go to jail?" Obviously no one can answer these questions for certain; this is dependent on personal opinion.

Since there is no correct definition of what is right and wrong, then you must think that human beings should be governed. If people are naturally "driven by basic instinct," then it is apparent that things like, religion and government are needed in order to show people what morals are. We have laws for a reason, and we have religion for a reason; they both establish order and guide us in a society. Without this order, virtues probably would go flying out the window. You helped your argument by using the book, Lord of the Flies. The children, without any enforcement, succumb to corrupt ways of life. This proves my point that people need established rules in order to successfully construct any society.

If you think infidelity is just an abstract idea, then the fundamentals behind love, such as loyalty and commitment, must be abstract to you as well. Granted, we created these words to give us better insight on what love actually is, but they weren't created for any reason. These "abstract" ideas actually do exist, and varies from person to person. So if loyalty and commitment exist, then love must exist. If love exists, then there must be certain rules to follow while you're in it. One is remaining faithful to your partner despite the blame you place upon instinctive urges.
thegravenig

Pro

thegravenig forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
ashtronomy

Con

ashtronomy forfeited this round.
thegravenig

Pro

thegravenig forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
sense* sorry!!
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
I know EXACTLY what you mean. I love gorgeous men in general, but when that man or in your case woman gives you that attention (maybe you're not even asking for it), it is flattering. Sometimes, too flattering (at least sometimes with me). Its not that I question the relationship but I question my own ability of being committed. Don't get this confused, I am committed...I'm saying whether or not what I'm doing is compromising that commitment when its NOT. Basically in an easier since, I make things bigger than what they need to be. There was a time where if I even talked to another guy I felt like I was "cheating", when I wasn't.
He's friends with his ex, I'm fine with it cause I have nothing to worry about. I can't be friends with an ex cause even though it wasn't meant to be, that quality that attracted me to them still exists (I'm talking about looks. Yes there is a part of me that is shallow), so I stay away from that danger area. I can't let myself go there, cause I would fail<---not because I wanted to.
I have gotten better too, I am just saying I totally get what you are saying. Now when I talk to a guy I mention I have a boyfriend twice in the conversation. Just so that person understands I am not interested in hearing how he thinks I have pretty eyes.
I didn't mean to type a novel haha. Hopefully you understand what I was saying.
Posted by Sisyphus67 5 years ago
Sisyphus67
@photographer2188 I was not offended, though the apology was kind since you thought I might be. I have heard far worse things said about the military, and some of them are true. But we are not all cut from the same cloth.

As to flirting, perhaps we have different definitions. The exchange of pleasantries and compliments is more conversational than flirting, I think. There is a line that is crossed when one is no longer verbally dancing and is actively researching the chances of getting in to someones pants, That, to me is flirting. I think maybe only the person engaged in the activity knows when that point is, however.

Neither my wife nor I are the jealous type. I have always thought that any feelings of jealousy in me are my subconscious' way of alerting me that I have not been maintaining my relationship properly. If I feel threatened it is because I know I have not done everything I can to show her how much I love her. If I have, I have nothing to worry about. If I haven't, then I should worry more about what I ca do and less about the guy at the bookstore making smalltalk with my wife.

I am not ashamed that I look, but I am frustrated at my inability to control it. I've gotten better. :) At least now when I am talking to a woman my eyes do not drop to her breasts of their own accord.

Usually.
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
(Stupid comment ran out of characters haha)
The best advice I have ever recieved was from my favorite show "Sex and The City". I forget it word for word but it was something like this "There are far worst things that can happen in a relationship. If thats your ONLY problem.....your damn lucky"
She's absolutely right!! You go home to your wife and thats it. Dont worry about anything else.

Sorry didnt mean to sound like a therapist HAHA. But I do see what you're saying, and I do agree (on some aspects.)
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
@Sisyphus67-
(Real quick for second off topic. I just wanted to apologize about that comment I made on the other debate, with Neonix. I made a comment about his placement in the army. I don't like him and for a second I did forget I was on a debate site (I am new to debating and he just got done beating a dead dog). I did NOT mean to offend you at all =( So I am truly sorry. I have nothing but the utmost respect for what our soldiers do for us. I am sorry if that was miss-understood.)

I agree with you on some accounts, but I don't know maybe I can explain better. There are times where I do think about another male sexually. But I don't necessarily think that is cheating, cause I'm never going to see that person again. I have flirted with guys before but its harmless. (would I do it again, no. Cause I will admit it DID feel wrong. My boyfriend wasn't upset cause he understood its human nature to be attracted to someone else for a mere second, if not days sometimes.) And, yea, he has flirted before as well, I wasn't happy at all (cause I'm a woman and we are very emotional creatures sometimes too emotional HAHA) but I thought about it, and I just let it go cause he was never going to see her again. The flirting he did was at a Wegmans and this girl came up to him and commented on his long hair, and then he commented on her smile. It was seriously harmless.
It seems to me you do have a wandering eye, you know what though its okay!!! Man seriously you seem like an awesome guy! Very aware of what you do. But you do seem sorta ashamed. I know I'm 23 very young, but don't feel that way. You go home to your wife every night and I'm sure you love her just as much (if not more) than the day you married her. Its human nature (even in men) to look at other women. Its not wrong!! If there's anything I learned, its that its HEALTHY!!! We never stop learning about ourselves (even sexually) its never ending.
Posted by Sisyphus67 5 years ago
Sisyphus67
@Photographer2188, I am not certain if your question was directed at me or ashtronomy.

If it were to me, then my answer is that looking is not nor ever was cheating. Looking is merely an appraisal, I think. Our eye is naturally drawn to beauty, and women are beautiful. However, if I were to let it devolve into lust, then I think I am at the very least dancing in the grey area, and I do not wish to do so. If I am thinking of someone else as an object of my desire rather than my wife, then I have replaced her with another. To me, that is cheating.

It is difficult. Lust is probably the hardest vice to control, because it is so central to our instincts. Being central to our instincts doesn't make it appropriate, though, anymore than using physical violence to solve a problem. I try to be evolved. I have limited success, but I keep trying. I wish I could control it to the point where I don't even look, but even my wife thinks that is likely impossible to do. I suppose I should be satisfied that I do not leer but, having rid myself of so many other vices, it frustrates me that I cannot always keep from looking at a woman I find attractive.

I think this is why the middle-east is so concerned with how a woman dresses; the men blame the woman for the lust they feel.

@ashtrnomy Thank you. I am rarely concise but it pleases me when I can be precise. :)
Posted by ashtronomy 5 years ago
ashtronomy
I also agree with what you've stated, Sisyphus67. You seem to have hit it right on the head. I couldn't have summed it up better.
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
I'm not questioning whether you're right or wrong cause I absolutely agree!!! My question is what is cheating to you?
-I look at other men all the time it's human nature, and my boyfriend of 5yrs looks at women all the time and never acts on it either.
Would you call that cheating I'm just curious is all :)
Posted by Sisyphus67 5 years ago
Sisyphus67
I am sure that not all people are unfaithful, but I wouldn't want to have to guess the percentage. I wouldn't say it is more poplar now, but rather it is more accepted. The fact you notice it more likely has more to do with experience and self-awareness than age, but those are hopefully a byproduct of age, so perhaps it is a moot distinction.

Regardless, infidelity seems more prevalent; perhaps it is only because people are more comfortable talking about it now, but I don't think so. Much of it, i think, is a result of a misguided attempt to capture feminist power; somewhere along the way women got the idea that in order to express their personal power it should manifest in sexual conquest or at the very least hypersexuality. In trying to become equal with men they embraced one of the worst things about men.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman embracing her sexuality but it is a shame, I think, if anyone thinks that is the primary source of her power. It is really just another side of the shackles that patriarchal society has forced women into since the beginning of recorded history. Men, in totem, have always tried to force women either into the role of Madonna or Whore (archetypes not name-calling, mind you).

This type of behavior is not synonymous with the free love or the polyamory of the sixties and seventies since it is not an alternative to monogamy but an excursion from monogamy. There are no hall passes in life, I think.
Posted by ashtronomy 5 years ago
ashtronomy
Yes, it's unfortunate that it happens that way. As I get older, it seems like more people are doing it. Is it just my age? Are all people unfaithful? Or is this craze becoming more popular over time?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Blithe 5 years ago
Blithe
ashtronomythegravenigTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Not much of a debate since they both agreed but pro forfeited twice