The Instigator
turtlecool2
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Spiral
Con (against)
Winning
55 Points

Infinity is rational and a real number

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,077 times Debate No: 4146
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (18)

 

turtlecool2

Pro

1 x 1=1
1 / 1=1
infinity x 1=infinity
infinity / infinity=1

wouldnt this make infinity rational? if they are infinity is divisable by itself, and it makes 1, that means that it has an some sort of whole number which makes it 1.
Spiral

Con

As my opponent used number systems as his proof, I will discuss only that.

A number system is any compilation of objects that have basic properties (e.g. addition, multiplication) that we normally associate with numbers.

Number systems appear in many sizes. There are "natural number systems", which are the set of numbers used in counting: 1, 2, 3, etc. You can develop this system to consist of additional concepts, like negative numbers, fractions.
Each of these concepts exists, provided we look for it in the framework of a large enough number system.

Does infinity exist in the same manner that these concepts (negative numbers, fractions, etc.) do? Or, "does there exist any number system which, as well as including the familiar numbers we are used to, also includes an "infinity" concept?"

The answer, simply, is no.

What would infinity minus 1 be? It can not be a finite number, as no finite number, plus 1 equals infinity. Therefore:

infinty - 1 = infinty

The rules of arithmetic have to be violated, because if they held, you could subtract infinity from both sides to conclude -1 = 0, which is false.

Consequently, there is no number system which possesses the usual rules of arithmetic and in which infinity exists.

http://www.math.toronto.edu...
Debate Round No. 1
turtlecool2

Pro

Yes, i see your point about infinity - 1 = infinity.
But if infinity wanst real, then there is no such this as infinity, like if it never exist. Which means that there is no such thing as unlimited of anything.
But if it is, then it is a real number and the equation would be infinity - 1= finite.
Spiral

Con

"Yes, i see your point about infinity - 1 = infinity.
But if infinity wanst real, then there is no such this as infinity, like if it never exist. Which means that there is no such thing as unlimited of anything.
But if it is, then it is a real number and the equation would be infinity - 1= finite."

Ok, I'll make this quick.
Infinity is in this case a concept, it has no value, to have a value one could easily answer what infinity -1 is equal to, additionally, what infinity + 1 is equal to. As the answer must always return infinity (you can not say what number is arrived at) infinity as a number does not exist. Additionally finite is not a number, it is a term you can not use "finite" as a mathematical number. Again, what is finite – 10, still finite, NOT a discrete number. Infinity is not a discrete number, it has no value.
Debate Round No. 2
turtlecool2

Pro

Who ever said that infinity can never exist? Why cant we ever have an infinite amount of stuff? If it cant exist in our universe, it might as well exist in another. So if it did exist in another universe, then that means the universe doesnt exist, since the infinity is not real.

Another favorite question of mine:
Why not?

vote pro
Spiral

Con

If we refer back to my opponents actual premise:

"Infinity is rational and a real number"

What is not under discussion here is the concept of infinity, or its validity as a term, what my opponent seems to have forgotten is he was trying to show that infinity was a number.

His proof? Infinity/Infinity = 1 and this therefore proves its value as a discrete number.

fgowsnm/fgowsnm = 1 Have I proved the exitence of fgowsnm? Of course not. Just because we can input a term into an equation means nothing at all.

Infinity is the set of all numbers, it has no intrinsic discrete value, it is not a number in and of itself. It has importance in some fields of mathematics sure, but we are not debating those here. My opponent got side tracked, lost and has forgotten to argue his premise.

Regards, Spiral.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ghegeman 5 years ago
ghegeman
haha this was not a debate but rather a lesson
Posted by vviivveekk 6 years ago
vviivveekk
sir may i say that infinity means undefined and one cannot divide anything from the undefined. it is not in set of numbers allowed for division. Set theory for division says that any number can be divided by only that number which is rational ( 0 excluded), ie. comes in the set of R-{0}. So, you cannot prove infinity is rational number by dividing it with infinity which itself is not proved rational number.
Posted by vviivveekk 6 years ago
vviivveekk
sir may i say that infinity means undefined and one cannot divide anything from the undefined. it is not in set of numbers allowed for division. Set theory for division says that any number can be divided by only that number which is rational ( 0 excluded), ie. comes in the set of R-{0}. So, you cannot prove infinity is rational number by dividing it with infinity which itself is not proved rational number.
Posted by turtlecool2 6 years ago
turtlecool2
OH NOES IM LOSING AHHHHHHHHHHHHH lol rofl
Posted by Spiral 6 years ago
Spiral
**existence* not *exitence*

I was originally going to say fgowsnm/fgowsnm = fgbodle.
Thought better of it though. :D
Posted by Scyrone 6 years ago
Scyrone
"fgowsnm/fgowsnm = 1 Have I proved the exitence of fgowsnm?"

ROFFL!!!!!!

I love you!
Posted by beem0r 6 years ago
beem0r
"infinty / infinity = 1"
ROFL, GB2SKOOL
Posted by Paradigm_Lost 6 years ago
Paradigm_Lost
"Infinity is in this case a concept, it has no value"

Agreed. Since an actual infinite has never been demonstrated, it is a mathematical concept. And often it requires supertasks in order for it to trek on in to infinity -- conceptually. It seems that infinity is not an actual number, just as 0 is not an actual number -- infinity representing all numbers, and 0 representing no numbers.
Posted by LedLegend 6 years ago
LedLegend
right now i'm for oscar/turttlecool
Posted by multislack 6 years ago
multislack
You kids and your infinity... BALDERDASH!
18 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
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Vote Placed by ghegeman 5 years ago
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Vote Placed by CogitoErgoCogitoSum 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by MZZ.RUDENESS 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by bexy_kelly 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by 11ghjones 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by LedLegend 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by beem0r 6 years ago
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