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# Information exists independently of matter and energy.

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LittleBallofHATE
 Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner Started: 6/24/2014 Category: Science Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period Viewed: 687 times Debate No: 57128
Debate Rounds (4)

 Pro As Pro, I state that information exists as something independent of matter and energy. What I mean by this, is that matter and energy are simply the medium that convey information. Information has it's own independent existence. Con must prove that the existence of information is somehow tied to matter and energy. Four rounds. 1) Acceptance. 2) Opening arguments. 3) Rebuttals. 4) Closing arguments. No rebuttals allowed.Report this Argument Con Four rounds. 1) Acceptance. 2) Opening arguments. 3) Rebuttals. 4) Closing arguments. No rebuttals allowed.Report this Argument Pro Thank you for accepting this debate. Information is not a property of matter! The American mathematician Norbert Wiener made the oft-cited statement: "Information is information, neither matter nor energy." With this he acknowledged a very significant thing: information is not a material entity. Let me clarify this important property of information with an example. Imagine a sandy stretch of beach. With my finger I write a number of sentences in the sand. The content of the information can be understood. Now I erase the information by smoothing out the sand. Then I write other sentences in the sand. In doing so I am using the same matter as before to display this information. Despite this erasing and rewriting, displaying and destroying varying amounts of information, the mass of the sand did not alter at any time. The information itself is thus massless. A similar thought experiment involving the hard drive of a computer quickly leads to the same conclusion. Information can also be encoded in countless ways. It doesn't matter what medium we use. The information is not altered. It remains the same. Information has no energy and no mass. It cannot be measured. It cannot be weighed. Because information is a non-material entity, its origin is likewise not explicable by material processes. What causes information to come into existence at all"what is the initiating factor? What causes us to write a letter, a postcard, a note of congratulations, a diary entry or a file note? The most important prerequisite for the construction of information is our own will, or that of the person who assigned the task to us. Information always depends upon the will of a sender who issues the information. Information is not constant; it can be deliberately increased and can be distorted or destroyed (e.g. through disturbances in transmission). In summary: Information arises only through will (intention and purpose). Matter and energy are not information. They are the medium that carries information. Now you could argue that the rings of a tree are information. they tell how old it is, what the climate was like, while it lived...etc. This is not the case. These rings are simply data. There is a huge difference. The rings, themselves, are not information, any more than printed words on a page. They are merely symbols used to convey information. The information I used is from http://creation.com... By Dr. Werner Gitt I suggest you at least skim over the article, as it has much information that could not be presented, due to the character limit. Dr Werner Gitt after receiving his Ph.D. was appointed head of the Department of Information Technology at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology (Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt [PTB], in Braunschweig). Seven years later he was promoted to Director and Professor at PTB.1 His research concerns have involved information science, mathematics, and systems control technology. His many original research findings have been published in scientific journals or have been the subject of papers presented at scientific conferences and at universities in Germany and around the world. I now turn the debate over to con. Let's see if he's Toughenough to tackle this. ^_^Report this Argument Con toughenough forfeited this round. Pro I'll have to pass this round, since my opponent hasn't given me anything to refute.Report this Argument Con toughenough forfeited this round. Pro Well. It looks like my opponent has decided to forfeit. It also looks like no one is interested in this debate. Pity.Report this Argument Con toughenough forfeited this round.
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Without matter and energy who can't get any information. 1-0 Akhey!
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Uh oh.
Posted by LittleBallofHATE 2 years ago
It also proves that information depends on will and intelligence. DNA is information. It's actually a high level language. Every other language, from smoke signals to the most advanced computer language, requires intelligence for their existence. The same hold trues for the language of DNA. It had to have an intelligent designer. No other explanation makes sense, yet atheists will twist things and flat out deny anything that confirms it. They do this because the alternative to a naturalistic universe is abhorrent to them. A Creator that they are accountable to. That's why they hold to evolution, like it's a lifeline. For them, it is.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Only reason that nobody will come up with a reasonable rebuttal is that the resolution is SO true.
Posted by LittleBallofHATE 2 years ago
Looks like my opponent forfeited. I was really looking forward to how he was going to refute my argument. Well. 40 min to go. Maybe he's just waiting til the last minute.
Posted by LittleBallofHATE 2 years ago
Looks like no one is interested in this debate. Maybe, once we make some comments, they'll show some interest.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.