The Instigator
pazmusik
Pro (for)
Winning
32 Points
The Contender
RedEye
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Installing toilet paper rolls with the loose flap "over-the-top" is superior to "underneath".

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/13/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,673 times Debate No: 4404
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (10)

 

pazmusik

Pro

My proposition is under the realm of "MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY" with respect to a lifetime of energy usage.

I submit that, when installing new toilet paper rolls on the dispenser, it is wiser to install them so that the loose end of the roll (the thing you tug on) is coming over the TOP/FRONT of the roll rather than hanging BEHIND/UNDER the roll.

I understand that this is a matter of preference, but my interest is in preserving ultimate efficiency. If the process of wiping one's bottom uses additional steps, further energy is necessary and thus less efficient than a process with fewer steps.

Typically, when the toilet roll is oriented so that the loose end is behind/underneath, the end will always be hanging. This is true even if one uses their hand to spin the toilet roll towards them, thereby rotating the loose end up over the back of the roll to the top. After a certain point on its circumference, the weight of the paper will cause the loose end to once again fall downward to a hanging position once again. I find this position significantly frustrating and annoying, inasmuch because it risks the loose end contacting a dirty ground, as because it adds the additional step of having to reach underneath the roll and search for the loose end.

The peculiar position of installed toilet roll dispensers in public bathrooms, relative to your sitting position on the toilet, makes this latter point more relevant. Given the construction of those bulky dispensers, and the inability to reach inside of them, it's incumbent on the janitors to install the toilet rolls with loose end hanging, to facilitate the toilet user's access to it.

But this common practice has been carried over to the household bathroom, where it is clearly not needed, as toilet rolls are not enclosed in large plastic-covered dispensers but free and open.

Since minor budges of the toilet roll (from inadvertent contact with the roll, or carryover rotation from pulling on the flap) will always rotate the roll away from the user, the underneath-hanging flap has a tendency to drop lower and lower to the ground.

With the flap over the top, the loose end can NEVER hang below the length of one sheet, since the perforation of the last sheet is attached to the rest of the roll. The only way the spool of toilet paper could be unraveled in such a position is for the roll to be rotated TOWARDS the user, and the only time a roll is rotated towards the user is when he/she is dispensing toilet paper with a careful hand.

Even though such minor differences net little change in efficiency in one crapage visit, I propose that a lifetime of pooping necessarily compiles thousands of minutes of orienting a toilet roll for proper dispensing.

LOOSE FLAP HANGING UNDERNEATH: places the flap slightly further away from the user, and in a more awkward position. When using the two-hand method for dispensing toilet paper (one hand steadies the roll while the other tears the required amount of sheets), the steadying hand slightly blocks the view of the other hand having to reach underneath to access the hanging sheets.

LOOSE FLAP HANGING OVER THE TOP: presents the loose flap directly towards the user, in the most natural position for dispensation. With the two-hand method, the hand tearing the sheets is now unfettered and in no way interfered with the steadying hand, and needs not reach an awkward length to tear sheets.

One final point: there IS an occasion where hanging loose ends (orientation: underneath) WOULD be more efficient to the user, and that is when the toilet roll dispenser is positioned ABOVE the head of the user. This shows up from time to time in Europe. In such a situation, the hanging flap has an advantage since it places the loose end at the most accessible and most efficient position for the user. An over-the-top position in such case would be inconvenient. However, this debate should focus solely on standard american dispensers, positioned at or below the waist-knee level of the user while sitting.

I look forward to the debate.

Cheers,
Peter Z.
RedEye

Con

I negate: Installing toilet paper rolls with the loose flap "over-the-top" is superior to "underneath".

Reason for negation: I negate, but I do not defend the use of under.

My opponent wants maximum efficiency. Therefore, this will be the criterion of the round. I concede; only efficiency to determine the round.

Case:

I. To maximize efficiency I propose that we let other people wipe us.

My opponent believes that the less energy you use the more efficient it is. Ok, then I argue, minimal to no work should win this round.

You exert more force by either the top or the bottom if your the one using it.

My opponent never said it had to BE YOU doing it. So, therefore have someone else take the toilet paper, and let them wipe you.

It's actually sexually optimizing if done by a lover, like your wife.

So, therefore, to achieve maximum efficiency, I negate. Instead have someone else wipe you.
===============================================================================
This is a clear Con ballet.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, I now stand ready for opponents responses.
Debate Round No. 1
pazmusik

Pro

While I'm delighted by your alternative proposal, I sincerely wished to debate the comparison of efficiency between the two methods of installing toilet paper that I proposed in my initial argument. If you cannot present an argument for why the behind/underneath orientation of the loose endflap of a toilet paper roll is more efficient to the user than the front/top orientation, I ask that you kindly forfeit the debate.

Further, please note that employing the use of a second individual for wiping one's brown asterisk is actually a decrease in efficiency, since the ability of mankind to perform work in the universe (and perhaps produce more energy) is reduced. Certainly, one person wiping your bottom may use the same energy as you wiping your bottom yourself, but the employment of that second individual prohibits them from performing work in other conditions for that allotted time. Now, under your proposal, every bathroom visit must employ two individuals. The country's productivity would be significantly hindered, especially on spicy-burrito day.

Even though the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics hold that there will be a net loss in energy for each transfer of energy, a second individual could still counter the net loss of YOUR energy expelled in wiping your anushole by generating a greater amount of energy. The net loss produced during her generating the new energy could still be lower than the total loss of your energy in expunging the remnants of last night's meatloaf from your rectum.

Now, I must insist: argue the fine points of toilet roll orientation, or I will take this debate elsewhere.

Sincerely,
Peter Z.
RedEye

Con

RedEye forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
pazmusik

Pro

My opponent forfeits.

We may now make it official: toilet paper rolls ought to be oriented with the loose end-flap in the front/top position. with the end pointing towards the user. Promptly, a counterculture of back/hanging-oriented toilet roll installers will emerge, bent on doing things different just to be different.

In the end, millions of anuses will decide. Which is better?

mmm. Burrito.
RedEye

Con

RedEye forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Jamcke 9 years ago
Jamcke
vote pro!

http://www.debate.org...
Posted by jellyphish 9 years ago
jellyphish
Redeye, that was weak, what hell man? The argument is simple, if the paper goes over and someone takes their non-sanitary hand and places it on the paper, the next person will inevitably have to actually come in contact with that same paper. If it comes from underneath then all you have to do is pull!
It's just like the "should i eat salsa in the mexican restaurant" argument, NO! Do you know what's on the previous customer's fingers? I've seen the data, it ain't pretty, literally.
PS+ i don't think the anus have the ability to decide, but i could be wrong, look at the state our white house, and there's good example of the anus over-ruling the brain.
Posted by RedEye 9 years ago
RedEye
hmm, w/e, i forfeit. However when the voting issue comes, remember me =)
Posted by RedEye 9 years ago
RedEye
LOL, that was weird. I'm usually a very serious debater, but w/e, that was fun.
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by pazmusik 8 years ago
pazmusik
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Vote Placed by Jamcke 9 years ago
Jamcke
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by vibrodigits 9 years ago
vibrodigits
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by LakevilleNorthJT 9 years ago
LakevilleNorthJT
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Olhando 9 years ago
Olhando
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by llamallama 9 years ago
llamallama
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by gahbage 9 years ago
gahbage
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Josh 9 years ago
Josh
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
pazmusikRedEyeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30