The Instigator
The_Devils_Advocate
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points
The Contender
Thaddaeus
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Intelligent Design in schools.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/22/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,493 times Debate No: 5110
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (3)

 

The_Devils_Advocate

Con

I am not choosing con as I do not like to pick my standpoint. Rather I would ask that my opponent tell me which side they prefer, and we shall go from there. If my opponent would like to make his/her first argument next round that is fine, but if not then I would be more than willing to present my argument next round.
Thaddaeus

Pro

I'm not a very religious man. Indeed, I believe a very, very huge portion of religious people (e.g., Islamic fundamentalists) are very stupid. Yet I also believe that disallowing ID in public schools while allowing lessons on evolution is very stupid. Each provides a way to look at and understand our role in the grand scheme of things, and both should be taught in schools. Also, atheism is essentially a religion, so to allow evolution (which is central to atheism) while denying ID is tantamount to endorsing one religion (atheism) over another, which clearly violates our consitutional prohibition against governmental endorsement of religion and our political principle that the church and state ought to be kept separate. Finally, ID theory is scientifically rigorous and has been accepted by many smart men. So too has evolution. Why should one be kicked to the curb?
Debate Round No. 1
The_Devils_Advocate

Con

To my esteemed Thaddaeus. I thank you very much for taking on this debate. You have chosen the side of having ID in schools. Therefore I shall debate against it. I hope that this debate is fun and enjoyable for both. Good luck. Now to my argumentation.

"...atheism is essentially a religion, so to allow evolution (which is central to atheism) while denying ID is tantamount to endorsing one religion (atheism) over another, which clearly violates our consitutional prohibition against governmental endorsement of religion and our political principle that the church and state ought to be kept separate."
- Religion is defined as "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." This according to dictionary.com and it's the first definition found. Look specifically to the first line. It says that it includes the cause which is inclusive of both ID and evolutionary theory. But the second and thirds relate only to ID. Now I believe that you will say that ID doesn't contain these. I disagree. In fact, the logical conclusion of ID is a religion. If we teach about a creator or creators, then it leads to the question of who or what created us. If there is an intelligent designer, then what is the purpose (the third part) of everything being created, and what is the creator like (the second part) All of these are the specific attributes of what religion is defined as. Evolutionary theory doesn't claim to have a purpose for the world. It also doesn't have a nature that is given to it. So we see that your argument about evolutionary theory being a religion is false, and we also see that ID is a religion. So if ID were to be taught in schools, then that would be violating the separation of church and state.

Now for your next argument. You say that ID has been accepted by many smart men. I have a couple questions regarding this statement:
1. Which ones?
2. What makes them smart?
3. In what areas are they "smart"?
4. What percentage is many?
5. How many smart men think it isn't valid?
All of these are valid questions that must be answered to prove your statement true. I will now go through and discuss these questions proving how that statement is false.
1, 4, and 5, I will group. According to msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com...) much of the scientific community disregards ID. They say that no example of irreducible complexity, the basis for ID, exists. Not only this, but when you look at the second page of the article, you see that one of the main backers for ID is in fact Christian. When we look deeper, we find that it is the Christian community backing ID. Surprisingly, most other religions that believe in a supreme being creating the world aren't backing it at all.
2. If most of the scientific community disregard ID, and these are the people who study it and find its merits or faults, then the people who believe in it can't be that smart.
3. Because it is mostly Christian backed, the smart people may be smart, just not in science. They may be very well educated in philosophy, religion, theology, etc..., but not in the areas necessary to prove your point.

All of these arguments prove why my opponent is wrong in his statements, and how I am right in mine. Thank you and good luck to you...may God be with you.
Thaddaeus

Pro

Thaddaeus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
The_Devils_Advocate

Con

Well, hopefully thaddaeus will be able to debate next round, but I ask that you look to my argumentation. I am clearly winning this debate.
Thaddaeus

Pro

Thaddaeus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
The_Devils_Advocate

Con

Alright, well, it's a cheap way to win, but when an opponent forfeits, there isn't much I cans
Thaddaeus

Pro

Thaddaeus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by The_Devils_Advocate 9 years ago
The_Devils_Advocate
*I can say* internet connection is bad.
Posted by Rezzealaux 9 years ago
Rezzealaux
"And I thought John's curse was his attraction to a certain type of drawing?"

Wat.

Noooo D:
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
A religion, in the loosest possible sense, is a set of opinions about what ought be held in reverence. In this loosest of all senses even, atheism as such is not a religion, though atheistic religions are possible. And in more common senses atheism is clearly not :D.

And I thought John's curse was his attraction to a certain type of drawing? Grammar or poor word choice is rather secondary, especially considering the prominence he gives the curse as I would define it in his avatars :D.
Posted by Rezzealaux 9 years ago
Rezzealaux
john: user on this site; s0m31john
curse: it makes you say the wrong things or use grammar incorrectly
Posted by saz917 9 years ago
saz917
What exactly is John's Curse?
Posted by Rezzealaux 9 years ago
Rezzealaux
No, you have john's curse.
Posted by saz917 9 years ago
saz917
Damnit, I should re-read before I post.
Posted by Rezzealaux 9 years ago
Rezzealaux
"The difference between intelligent design is that it is backed up by scientific evidence, whereas intelligent design is based solely on belief. I'm not necessarily saying that either one is true, but intelligent design has no supporting evidence and should not be taught in a classroom."

John's curse be with you.

You said ID when you meant to say Evolution in one of those usages.
Posted by saz917 9 years ago
saz917
The difference between intelligent design is that it is backed up by scientific evidence, whereas intelligent design is based solely on belief. I'm not necessarily saying that either one is true, but intelligent design has no supporting evidence and should not be taught in a classroom.
Posted by Rezzealaux 9 years ago
Rezzealaux
"atheism is essentially a religion"
Just as you are essentially a genius.

And you aren't a genius.

gtfo.jpg
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by TheSkeptic 9 years ago
TheSkeptic
The_Devils_AdvocateThaddaeusTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Nox 9 years ago
Nox
The_Devils_AdvocateThaddaeusTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by The_Devils_Advocate 9 years ago
The_Devils_Advocate
The_Devils_AdvocateThaddaeusTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70