The Instigator
Patrick_Henry
Pro (for)
Winning
25 Points
The Contender
DaPofoKing
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Iowa ought to secede from the United States of America

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/14/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,763 times Debate No: 2644
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (10)

 

Patrick_Henry

Pro

The premise behind this topic is the fact that the Federal government is hurting Iowa, and that Iowa would be better off without the Federal government.

1.) At the moment, Iowa enjoys a first in the nation caucus status. Should this status go away, we will have little to no impact on national policies. The result of the 2010 census will likely strip us from a congressional delegation of seven, to six further minimizing the ability of our state to influence national policy.

2.) As a State, Iowa has been consistently in the top ten for the quality of k-12 education. We're currently still in the top ten, in spite of the fact that it is not a priority of our spending. We are currently ranked 42nd in teacher pay. This supports an idea that Iowans, whether conservative of liberal, value a good education to the point that we invest resources aside from our tax dollars to maintain the high quality of education in our state. The disparity between the quality of the top ten and the bottom ten is so great that there is no way that it could be argued that citizens of the bottom ten states have the same values and priorities as Iowans, yet all ten of these states receive a larger congressional delegation.

3.) The Foreign policy which the United States pursues does not reflect the values, goals, or interests of the People of Iowa. We treat our neighbors better than this. Internationally, the United States has tarnished its name. Meanwhile, very few people think ill of the Iowa and Iowans. The Federal government is hurting our preventing us from having positive international relationships.

4.) Iowa does not need to spend a half trillion dollars on defense each year, not including the cost of the Iraq war. No one hates Iowa, and no one desires to attack Iowa. A majority of the federal government's military commitments do not reflect the interest of Iowa.

5.) More than a third of our federal tax revenue goes towards paying the interest on the national debt. These are tax dollars that ought to go towards improving infrastructure, specifically investing in non-fossil fuel energy industries in states like Iowa. There are other industries that could use the investment, and education could be steadily improved if we weren't using our tax dollars to make payments to China. The 9 trillion dollars wasn't spent in Iowa.

6.) In the 1960s we had the most efficient health care in the country. When Medicare was conceived, they applied statewide spending to a specific formula which would regulate the amount of funding increases received each year in each state. This formula has punished us for being efficient, in that now Iowa receives the lowest Medicare funds per capita in the country. Our nurses and medical professionals are unable to make as much as they could in bordering states that are benefiting today from being wasteful in the 1960s.

7.) The American economy is on the verge of collapse. The dollars is rapidly inflating in value due to irresponsible spending. In the state of Iowa, we have laws requiring that the state have a balanced budget. This value is not reflected by the federal government that has decided to treat the future of Iowa, and all of the other states as a blank check while they proceeded to mortgage as much of our future as possible. By leaving the Federal Government, we could establish our own currency, and be able to let our own values of fiscal conservatism carry their weight with our government. Our seven member, soon to be six, congressional delegation is unable to bring this value to bear in the House and the Senate, and there's no reason why Iowa must suffer the same collapse that Federal government deserves.

8.) The Federal government is in need of serious reform, however it is so inundated with corruption that any effort to produce the required reforms is met with brutal resistance, denial, or is just ignored until the reform effort goes away. If Iowa is given the chance to define itself, we can create a much more fluid system with much less corruption and a better ability to self regulate given the smaller territory to look over, and the fact that Iowans, no matter what our differences, have more in common with each other than we do with Californians, New Yorkers, or Texans.
DaPofoKing

Con

Neg-

Lets look to my opponents first point when they state that Iowa is first in the national caucus and believes that by removing Iowa from the United States an becoming there own country it will be beneficial to them well this is the most bogus argument i have ever heard by removig Iowa you only damage them even more they would have to establish there own form of currency and physicaly seperate themselves from the united states there economic status would be completly ruined becuase there only export would be potatoes. And they would have no federal backing nor an established government to back them.

Second the whole they have a great k-12 education that as well has a lot to do with government funding from the U.S iowa doesnt do it all. Without the no child left behind policy and copius amounts of government funding there is no wy iowa could maintin there status if they were to seperate themselves from the U.S

On to my opponents third point first lets look to how many states we have 50 iowa is one of 50 states. In know way is the decisions being made by the U.S government is in know way affecting the financial status of iowa...or un anyway harming thee saftey.

Lets look to the fourth point i hate iowa and so do five people sitting around me in this argument alone your whole argument would fall...This case is completley based off of your bias to iowa and in know way has any relevance or actual standing to iowa being removed from the us only because you do not agree with there forien policies....

Lets just some up the rest of the debate...economically iowa wouldnt stand they have no form of currency besides the us dollar...the medical argument is based off of the 1960 and not now the medical advancments and health care in the us are alot better than if iowa were to break away from the us...because once they break away they have no us support for medical advancemnt and no support from the cdc...........for all these reasons you will always vote neg
Debate Round No. 1
Patrick_Henry

Pro

Patrick_Henry forfeited this round.
DaPofoKing

Con

To correct my argument against my opponents first point i meant ethanol not potatoes. Sorry about that error either way the agument still stands and I have no refutation because there were no arguments made. For that reason alone the pro side still stands and should when this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
Patrick_Henry

Pro

I don't know about the debate, but you can go ahead and "when" round two.

Again, that first sentences is kind of a doozie.
I kind of just want to ignore it…

Right, Iowa doesn't have to "physically separate" from the United States to secede. The United States didn't dig a giant moat between itself and Canada. It's called a treaty. If the United States were to recognize Iowa's independence, with that would come recognition of its sovereignty and borders.
Lots of countries have their own currencies. In fact, some countries, like Belize for example, base their currency rate directly on another currency. So, we could make every unit of Iowan currency be half of a Euro, or half of a pound. Secession would have its bumps and scratches, but I hardly think that our economy would collapse. Again, we produce things and trade agreements between nations are made all of the time. We'd be our own established government, and we wouldn't need federal backing. That's the point of secession, telling the federal government where to stick their nine trillion dollar deficit.

Iowa has had better education that most of the country on average well before No Child Left Behind. Most Iowan teachers want the policy to go away because it has actually worsened our education. Very little federal funding is devoted toward Iowan schools. Most of our funding is derived from property taxes. The community pays for the schools. Maybe that's why we care so much? You're showing me firsthand how well California's schools educate. If you're not a C or D student in English, there's a problem with your education system.

"On to my opponents third point first lets look to how many states we have 50 iowa is one of 50 states"
What does that have to do with my third point? My third point was that the federal government is preventing Iowa from having more positive international relationships.

The financial status of Iowa? Iowa's budget is balanced, and to be honest when the federal government cuts funding to federally started programs that we here in Iowa like, we tend to pick up the bill. When the federal government decided to cut funding to shelters for battered wives while at the same time running a massive deficit, Iowa decided to fund the women's shelters and we still had to maintain a balanced budget.

In case you meant economic status, instead of financial status. Our currency is massively inflating, our tax dollars go towards interest instead of infrastructure or anything meaningful. Wallstreet is teetering, and we're one natural disaster or war away from an economic collapse.

I'm not the only Iowan that doesn't agree with our foreign policy decisions. There's about 1300 Maytag workers who got to lose their jobs because their plant closed and move to Mexico that probably don't agree with the United States' foreign policy. There are hundreds of thousands of people against the war in Iraq that don't agree with the United States' foreign policy.

I'm glad that you've consulted five people that don't live in Iowa about Iowa. The fact that you dislike our state is a prime indication as to why we should not be interesting in remaining in the same government as you. You probably don't realize that you consume Iowan products on a daily basis.

The argument isn't about the medical field, the argument is showing how the Medicare reimbursements system is unfairly punishing Iowa. Medicare has been increased over time so that medical advancements can be afforded, it's just that other states which were more wasteful in the 1960s get much larger amounts of money per person than Iowa does. I don't know what the Center for Disease Control has to do with your statement. Medical care is again a product of the market. Iowa will be just as well served by the venders of medical technology as we are now.
DaPofoKing

Con

DaPofoKing forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Patrick_Henry

Pro

'Tis the gift to be simple, 'tis the gift to be free,

'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,

And when we find ourselves in the place just right,

'Twill be in the valley of love and delight.

When true simplicity is gain'd,

To bow and to bend we shan't be asham'd,

To turn, turn will be our delight,

Till by turning, turning we come round right.
DaPofoKing

Con

DaPofoKing forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Patrick_Henry 8 years ago
Patrick_Henry
In statecraft there is no measure of optimism.

A number of federal policies proposed take very little of Iowa's interests in mind. For example, the Republican National Platform comes out against the 2007 Energy Act which among other things provided subsidies for bio fuels and wind energy, two things vitally important to the future of the State of Iowa.

Or the Bedell Farm Bill in the 1980s which would have ended farm subsidies by regulating not the number of acres you could plant, but the amount of corn you would be able to sell so that more farmers would stay on the land, and that by the manipulation of market forces the price could be maintained, while lowering the cost of production as farmers would feel the need to apply fewer fertilizers.

There's another version of this debate argued by someone much better. It's worth reading.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
Patrick,... You see the glass as half empty. I see it as perhaps that at least eight of the opposing voters have foresight in that they would rather not see Iowa succeed from the nation because of its incredible economic value.
Posted by Patrick_Henry 8 years ago
Patrick_Henry
I wish there were some way to respond to a pretentious statement without sounding pretentious.
Posted by DaPofoKing 8 years ago
DaPofoKing
Wow...Patrick I didnt realize how rude you were. Sorry you are so upset about how close this round is. Clearly people can look past my spelling and grammar errors and see fthe arguments that I was trying to propose. Hopefully you are not as rude in real life as you come off to be online.
Posted by Kusfraba 8 years ago
Kusfraba
What an interesting debate! I have to say, Patrick, that you did a very good job with it. Congratulations, you have +1 vote.
Posted by Patrick_Henry 8 years ago
Patrick_Henry
I significantly doubt people are voting con based off of the strength of his argument, and that makes me sad.
Posted by DaPofoKing 9 years ago
DaPofoKing
OOO and just to clarify i meant vote for he con side ...lol...in my last post...and i do not hate iowa i am simply addressing an issue that was brought fourth....sorry for the confusion.
Posted by TonyX311 9 years ago
TonyX311
Iowa grows corn, soy beans and raises hogs and cattle. Pofoking, you did not really address any of the arguments aimed at you and I agree that it was close to impossible to understand what you were trying to get at throughout most of your argument. You cannot just assume people will agree with you because your stance represents the status quo.

Also, the fact that you hate Iowa is completely irrelevant, and frankly offensive. Iowa is a great state full of considerate and highly intelligent people. I am currently attending the University of Iowa's college of law which is ranked in the top 25 for law schools nationally on a yearly basis and has the second largest law library in the nation. (First is Harvard's.)
Posted by Patrick_Henry 9 years ago
Patrick_Henry
Not actually an insult; merely a statement of fact. People will always judge you based off of your ability to communicate your thoughts and ideas before they will ever judge you based off of your thoughts and ideas. People actually have to understand what you're saying, and it helps if they don't have to feel stupid to agree with you.
Posted by DaPofoKing 9 years ago
DaPofoKing
A debate case doesnt matter about puncuation. In the first place...so i really dont get offended be your weak insults. i think someone in college might have some better material.
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