The Instigator
AmericaTheFatherland
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
CullenWoodward
Con (against)
Losing
5 Points

Ireland should rejoin the United Kingdom in 2015

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
AmericaTheFatherland
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/24/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,067 times Debate No: 63851
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

AmericaTheFatherland

Pro

Ireland and Britain has similar values and cultures and its silly for the British Isles to be divided.
CullenWoodward

Con

Hi thanks for starting this debate! I hereby accept your challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
AmericaTheFatherland

Pro

Despite previous conflict with these two nations, Britain and Ireland have a special bond. The British Isles is one island, then it should be one nation. Ireland was bailed out by the British in Ireland's financial crisis. President Higgins says he supports Ireland rejoining the UK. One in four British has Irish roots. London is Britain's biggest population of Irish people. True Irishness is with unity not separation.

The Irish and the British are one people, one nation. United, yes. Divided, no.
CullenWoodward

Con

Hi, to respond to your first argument they don't have a special bond. They are divided religiously and ideologically. Also, THE BRITISH ISLES IS MORE THAN 1 ISLAND! Its called the British IsleS for a reason. They hate eachother immensely, so much that the Irish Republican Army bombed British politicians to try to help "liberate" northern Ireland. Yes, they may have shared roots, but that doesn't solve many problems. They hate each other tons and too many people are against it for it to ever be a realistic option. It might be nice, but it is nearly impossible
Debate Round No. 2
AmericaTheFatherland

Pro

Britain and Ireland are past that. That was 30 years. You're going to let the past ensnare the future. The President of Ireland said he doesn't have a problem if Ireland rejoined the United Kingdom.

http://www.galwaydailynews.com...

Ireland and Britain have a destiny to be together in the future. Irish republicans are trying to destroy the unity that the two islands have together. I consider the Irish West Britons. In the Great Famine, many Irish immigrated to Britain. That's why one in four Britons have Irish roots. Why the Irish are serving the British army, immigrating to London? Because the finance there was a disaster. Now the financial crisis of Ireland is over. But in case of another economic or financial downturn, Ireland should rejoin the United Kingdom. Now Scotland is trying to leave, but if they vote for independence, 700,000 Scots could be gone by tomorrow. Let's welcome the Irish fellas back to the family.
CullenWoodward

Con

First of all, other than the one source you provided there is nothing I could find about president Higgins saying this. Second of all, the article you provided seemed to be comedic, referring to the president as a wizard, saying he was under the foreign queens spell, and that his spokesperson, Chris Reagan, said that the UK and Ireland were going to fight for independence (the website actually misspelled independence and after a long internet search I could find no evidence that this person existed, though I may be wrong about that so I won't list it as an argument) which is hilariously stupid as they are both mainly supporters of the EU. Also if you had bothered to read anything else on the website you would have discovered it is mainly for comedy with links to articles like a woman's boob crushing and killing 39 people and Oscar Pistorius's stress being so bad he might lose his legs. The website you cited is a comedic, fake one and shows how hilarious it would be if Higgins actually said this because he would be committing political suicide, and in a way actual suicide because people would almost immediately storm his residence and hang him. The actual meeting between the president and queen was about keeping strong friendship between Ireland and the UK, not wanting to join it. Also, I would like to point out that Scotland's referendum to leave the UK already happened, voting no. After citing a comedy website and not bothering to look into Scotland's referendum results, saying it is about to happen, I would definitely advise you to actually validate your sources before posting in future debates. Having disproved your sources, let me begin to dismantle your argument. First of all, you can consider the Irish whatever you want, but that has no real place in a debate. I could consider the Irish unicorn-riding fairy-people of north Macedonia with no real evidence if I wanted to, but that shouldn't be used as an argument in a debate. (No offence to Irish people I don't really think you are fairies or ride unicorns I was just showing an extreme to invalidate his argument :) ) But also, THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE! The Irish people are a proud, separate people from the rest of the UK and even has been speaking it's own language longer than English. Irish is still recognized as Ireland's language (Although they do use English for economic and international political negotiations just as most of the world) As for your argument about 1/4 of British people having Irish roots, I respond by saying IT DOESN'T MATTER! Approximately 1/5 of Americans have Hispanic descent, does that mean America should join Mexico? Mexicans and people of tons of different backgrounds all live in America, but we don't want to join them. Roots don't have a very large effect in the tension between Ireland and the UK, there are just as many diverse ethnicities and races in Ireland and the UK as there are in the U.S, so of course there will be mixed background but that doesn't mean much. Also, which financial crisis are you talking about? The most famous and most devastating of these crises was the Great Famine, or as some Irish consider it the "Irish Holocaust." They call it this because England and the UK offered almost no financial aid to Ireland and some even speculate that they purposely tried to wipe out as much Irish as possible. (http://www.irishholocaust.org...) Regardless of whether or not this is true, this source shows just a glimpse of the average Irishman's hatred for the UK. Also, joining the UK doesn't necessarily offer economic security. Leaving the Eurozone might be a possibility to help prevent an economic disaster, (although even that isn't definite) but the UK isn't some magical place of economic stability. It is like any other world economy and is subject to rise and fall with the circumstances it faces. Just recently the value of the pound suffered greatly when Scotland looked like it might leave, proving that the UK isn't an economic safe haven. Also, I would like to strengthen my point of how much the Irish hate the English and UK. Judging by the fact that you proposed this debate topic, I take it you have never been to Ireland. If you actually said that you think Ireland should join the UK you would be beaten or killed on the spot. The Irish view what the UK had done as too severe to just put behind them, the scars run too deep. I might be nice if the Irish just forgot about what happened, but to be fair they have some pretty good reasons to be angry. The Irish War of Independence was a bloody war with more than 2,000 deaths total. (http://www.theirishstory.com...) The Irish were tired of living under English "occupation" (depending on who you ask the term differs) and took up arms. The people who gave their lives for a free Irish Republic would have died in vain if they were to simply rejoin the UK. Even since then the Irish never fully forgived England. Incidents such as the Birmingham Six, in which the English wrongly convicted 6 Irish, Catholic Men who were only "guilty of being Irish in the wrong place and wrong time." This sparked rioting and protests and were released after many years later. (http://www.theguardian.com...) Finally, I would like to explain why Ireland joining the UK would simply never work. Even if a majority of Irish people for some reason forgot the atrocities committed by England and decided to join the UK and Higgins somehow approved (Even though If you look anywhere else on the internet you'll see he doesn't support joining) there would still be the extremists who would fight the UK til their death. The Irish Republican Army, generally dubbed a terrorist group, had repeatedly bombed public servants and buildings to try to gain either Irish Independence or Northern Ireland joining Ireland. Joining the UK would ignite a fire among Irish extremists that would no doubt claim tons of lives as it had before. Ireland is almost unanimously against joining and it would cause a violent revolution if it were to join.
Debate Round No. 3
AmericaTheFatherland

Pro

I would have no problem with Mexico becoming the 51st state of America. An article in August 2013, it stated that 72% of Mexicans support the idea of Mexico being annexed in to United States, it would prevent the illegal immigration problem. Real Irish would love the British, not hate them. The website you posted is to promote anti-British hatred. Ireland and Britain are right next to each other, they're part of the British Isles. Allow me to dismantle your argument and the sinister side of Irish republicanism. Why should Ireland rejoin the United Kingdom? Put the past behind. IRA never represented the Irish, they never have. Unity is the beneficial thing to keep the two together, not apart. I'm not afraid to die for standing up for my beliefs, I'm also not afraid to die for my country. There's something called in the Irish military diaspora which means the Irish immigrated to serve in armed forces other than Ireland. 5,000 Irishmen fought for Her Majesty in WW2 against Hitler and the Nazis, and I demand the Irish praise them for their heroic actions. Irish men who came home from WW2 fighting for the British faced hostility from their countrymen just because they stood up for they believed in. I'm here to break the sinister side of Irish republicanism which threatened Irish people serving the British army. Irish republicans are representing themselves, they're not truly Irish nor British , but the real Irish are the ones who served either Ireland or Britain. 200,000 Irish served in the British army for the Queen. I'm proud of that. Immigration to Britain from Ireland. A historic migration from Ireland to Britain was known. They made the UK and Ireland great. Sure they might be friends but they're lacking one thing: to be reunited and reconcile their differences. The British Isles includes Ireland like I said before. Britain was bailed out by Ireland in the financial crisis of Ireland. Britain still attracts a number of Irish immigrants. Some Irish want to forget what their ancestors did in WW1 by fighting for the British (by that time, Ireland was part of the UK).

If there was an event with the United Kingdom, which would be the express the Britishness that the UK had, the Brits would invite Ireland because they were formerly British politically and still British geographically because they're part of the British Isles. It'd be disrespectful to leave them out of the events Britain. Opportunities in UK are good for the Irish because their economy was disastrous but now it's recovering. Reconciliation is better than to remember the past. Ireland and Britain would benefit socially if they moved forward, not back. And the only thing to it is to reunite. Sure we can cannot change the past, but we can change the present and the future while we still can. You can't deny it either. The Irish were Britons politically but still Britons geography. You cannot change geography nor the past. I read a 2010 article of this man Ian Paisley who advocated the reunification of Ireland under the Crown.

http://www.independent.ie...

If the IRA were true Irishmen, they should let their countrymen decide who they want to serve without threatening them or attempting to murder them. Is that what you call Irish? You support those who persecute their countrymen just for serving for the British Crown? Political or religious persecution has no place in Ireland and everywhere around the world.
Scotland looks as if it 's ready to break away from the UK any minute. British Isles should have one flag, one nation. Ireland and Britain are united by nearly everything except politics. And I'm not against America rejoining the Crown. Whether I win or lose the debate, it doesn't matter. As long as I speak out my beliefs, I'll do just fine. Yeah, Irish is one of the official languages of Ireland, English is spoken too just so you know. Ireland and Britain are brothers for eternity. It's disrespectful to forget the Irish who served for the British in WW1 and WW2. Just so you know. I have no fear to stand for what I believe in even if I stand alone. Stand up for what you believe in.
CullenWoodward

Con

CullenWoodward forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
AmericaTheFatherland

Pro

The British are united with Irish by genetics, geography, culture, economy but divided by politics. If we let the past ensnare these two nations, it would weaken Anglo-Irish relations. We can start a new UK, a united Ireland for a new United Kingdom. A united Ireland for a federal United Kingdom. Put aside all the differences and past conflicts & be together forever to create a brighter future. British citizenship can be given to ROI citizens if they ask for it, the Irish were our countrymen, they never will be foreigners. The Southern Irish can still be British in the Republic of Ireland. Eliminate dissident republicans who want to control Ireland with a iron fist. Irish people consider themselves British, Irish or both. Ireland will renew its socio-economic ties with Britain by reuniting to create the British Isles one flag, one nation.
How does that benefit Ireland? It will rid the IRA. Break down the political barriers that keep the Irish and British apart. End dissident republican presence in Ireland forever. No Irish likes the IRA. Recent articles say the majority of Scots now would vote due to promises not kept by pro-union politicians. The unionists are going back to apologize to the Scots and will give the Scots what they want. If Scotland were to breakaway from the United Kingdom despite the Scots rejecting independence in the referendum, who'd take their place? I vote Ireland should take Scotland's place if it breaks away from Britain despite No vote. Britain biggest export destination in all of Europe is the Republic of Ireland. 10% of the British population of have parents or grandparents of Irish ancestry. It's still proven Ireland is the only country closer to Britain than any other country. If the UK leaves the EU, it would be a nightmare for Ireland. You do not understand the unbreakable ties Britain & Ireland have. If a person wronged you in the past and asks for forgiveness, would you forgive him? Republicans need to let it go. Forget the wrongdoings of the past & be reunited in the future. I'd stay to see Ireland & Britain reunited, cherishing and living happily as one. Some Irish hate Britain, but most love Britain. Please, my friend, unity, not separation, will bring happiness and joy in all the days of your life. Don't throw away things that bring peace, prosperity, and happiness. First Ireland must rejoin the Commonwealth, to strengthen it's socio-economic, cultural, & trade ties. Then rejoin the UK in the near future. Some advocate the support of Ireland rejoining the UK. Loyalists in Northern Ireland reject the unification with the Republic of Ireland, but that doesn't stop others that advocate. Many Quebecers rejected independence but doesn't stop those that advocate it. Many Scots rejected independence but it doesn't stop those who advocate. Also, many Irish reject Ireland rejoining the UK but it won't stop those that advocate it. If you quit, my friend, just because someone says it will never happen, you're letting them win. Keep trying, don't give up. The only failure you have is not having a voice. Stand up for you believe in even if you stand alone. And I believe the reunification of Ireland and Britain because of its unbreakable ties. Nothing will ever break the friendship and brotherhood these two nations share. I believe unity brings prosperity. What do you believe in? Ireland and Britain are brothers and friends united in happiness and love. When Ireland rejoins the UK in 2015, we'll tell the Irish "Welcome, we missed you." Let bygones be bygones and welcome the Irish back in the UK's family of nations.

My friend, believe in what you want. But don't reject things that brings happiness, peace, and prosperity. Don't throw it away. My regards.
CullenWoodward

Con

CullenWoodward forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Scr1tek 2 years ago
Scr1tek
*have
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by WillRiley 2 years ago
WillRiley
AmericaTheFatherlandCullenWoodwardTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro literally used a satirical website as if it was fact. Also, while Con did forfeit, his arguments were better.
Vote Placed by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
AmericaTheFatherlandCullenWoodwardTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
AmericaTheFatherlandCullenWoodwardTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture