The Instigator
cheesedingo1
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Thaddeus
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Iron Man V.S. The Hulk THE LIMITED DEBATE

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Thaddeus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/26/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,960 times Debate No: 23875
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (43)
Votes (5)

 

cheesedingo1

Pro

This is a superhero debate between me and Thaddeus. I am supporting Iron Man, and he is supporting the Hulk. This is a very limited debate time-wise.

Rules:
1)Please, no semantics or trolling.
2)Only 30 minutes to reply.
3)Only 4,000 characters.
4) Have fun :)

LET IT BEGIN!!!!
Thaddeus

Con

This debate pertains to whom would win in a fight. All sources should be from Earth 616 canon. The fight is to the death. The setting is a deserted new York city. Neither party have any prior knowledge of the other.
Consideration should be given to examples of either party actually beating each other in canon, but in the end reasoning independent from plot devices should be the deciding factor.
I give my opponent the floor. Thaddeus Smash Puny Dingo!
Debate Round No. 1
cheesedingo1

Pro


Iron man is a boss. He would win against the Hulk I will explain how with these 3 reasons.



1) He is smarter.


Tony Stark, Iron Man's alter ego, Is a billionaire. While in today's society, it doesn't take much to get lots of money (i.e. Jersey Shore), Tony got it off his brains alone. He created his superhero costume while being held in captivity with very limited resources [1]. He busted out, and was able to save the day numerous times (i.e. Iron Man 1&2 movies). The hulk, on the other hand, relies on his power and rage, not on his brains. In the Hulk movie (the most recent one) the Hulk spent most of his time running, trying not to use his powers, because of his fear that he can't control it. Iron Man has full control over his suit and knows how to use it.



2) He is far more powerful.


Iron Man has weapons. In the 1st movie, when in the desert, a tank was trying to shoot him. It hit iron man, but Iron man came back with limited scratches. He then comically shoots a very tiny missile which destroys the entire tank. This could easily take down the hulk. Also, Iron Man can shoot pulse blasts from his hands that are very powerful. A couple of these could destroy the hulk completely. Iron man has lots of armor, the hulk has a pair of purple pants. The defense ratio shows that Iron Man is superior.



3) He is far more resourceful.


Here is a scenario. My opponent said that it would take place in NYC and they are told to duke it out. Iron Man can fly. He has weapons. He can fly above the Hulks hitting range and shoot the crap out of the Hulk until he is nothing.



For these 3 reasons, Iron Man is dominant.



Thank you.



resources:


[1] Iron Man the Movie



Thaddeus

Con

Whilst no arguments mentioned goes against canon, the parameters laid out did specifically state that the 616 universe should be used as the source.

I shall begin by rebutting your arguments:

1) Ironman is smarter.

False. Whilst it is difficult to measure exactly how intelligent characters are, it is made clear that both Stark and Banner are some of the greatest minds in the marvel universe, with Banner often being considered as having the edge.
Certain incarnations, such as Professor Hulk, retain Banner's full intelligence [hulk.wikia.com/wiki/Hulk]
Banner has also been described as possesing "a mind so brilliant it cannot be measured on any known intelligence test."
Here he is described as 4th smartest person on the planet:

http://i663.photobucket.com...

Whilst Banner may fear his power, it is because it is truly something to be feared - arguably the most powerful being alive.

2) Ironman is more powerful
Ironman may be able to take a missile, hulk can survive million degree nova blast and a direct nuclear explosion. In fact he is insanely durable: far more so than Ironman's armour. His durability increases the angrier he gets. He gets angrier the more punishment he is taking. Thus he gets tough enough to fight whatever is harming him. Ironman's repulser tech would barely register to an angry hulk. He has withstood a 100 trillion ton attack from Skaar [http://media.comicvine.com...]

As for strength, with his legs he broke a planet twice the size of earth in two and has lifted a 150 billion ton mountain range. Iron man's strength is limited to 100 tons. [http://marvel.wikia.com...]

3) Resourcefulness
As stated before the Hulk is not always a mindless beast. As he takes punishment, he would get stronger and be able to jump higher. Ironman can't fly high enough to get out of the Hulk's range as he can leap into lower orbit in a calm state.

An assault from the Blackbolt barely registered to hulk, what chance would ironman have?
[http://img.photobucket.com... http://img.photobucket.com...]

Thankyou.
Debate Round No. 2
cheesedingo1

Pro

1)False. Whilst it is difficult to measure exactly how intelligent characters are, it is made clear that both Stark and Banner are some of the greatest minds in the marvel universe, with Banner often being considered as having the edge.

Counter False. Tony is by far the smartest, as said by businessweek [1]. My opponent said that he is the 4th smartest person, then Iron Man must be 3rd, with Proffesor X as #1 with batman as #2. No sources for that, though. He is the owner of Stark industries, which is full of the most andvanced weapons known to man. The hulk is a big green mass, and while he is smart, he isn't as smart in his hulk form, for he relies on his pure rage.

2) I do agree now that the hulk has better armor. Whilst there is no argument that the defense go's to Hulk, the defense alone would not win the fight.
He has withstood a 100 trillion ton attack from Skaar.As for strength, with his legs he broke a planet twice the size of earth in two and has lifted a 150 billion ton mountain range. Iron man's strength is limited to 100 tons.

It was not 100 trillion. The hulk can withstand 100 tons [2] max. No more. Anway, Iron Man also has lazers, which could easily vaporize the Hulk. If the hulk is as durible as my opponent suggests, how come in his battle with the abominator (I think i'm saying that right) in the most recent hulk movie, he showed weakness? He almost lost! That means a bunch of lasers and missels would definately do the trick.


3) Ironman can't fly high enough to get out of the Hulk's range as he can leap into lower orbit in a calm state.
Iron Man can easily outrun/fly the Hulk. Ironman can go 1000 mph at least [3], whilst the hulk's said max speed is between 500 and 800 mph. Iron Man could easily outfly him, and then blow him up whilst keeping out of the range of the hulk.

Thank you.

Resources:
[1] http://images.businessweek.com...
[2]http://forums.comicbookresources.com...
[3]http://wiki.answers.com...
[4]http://wiki.answers.com...
Thaddeus

Con

A disappointingly weak round from Pro

1) Businessweek is not a credible source regarding comics. As previously stated only the comic earth 616 canon is a viable source. Businessweek have nothing to do with marvel, so they have as much credibility on the matter as Joe Bloggs on the street. Proffessor X and Batman certainly would not be 1 and 2. Batman is not a marvel character, Proffessor X is not exceptionally intelligent and Reed Richards and Dr Doom would occupy the first two positions, with Hank Pym taking a probable third (maybe Zemo, the mad thinker or Beast)
As my prior source stated, when Hulk is in his professor hulk incarnation, he retains Banner's brilliant mind.

2)
a - Durability. Your source on the 100 tons is a link to a forum thread made by comics fans. Whereas I linked an encounter which describes the hulk surviving 100 trillion tons. Furthermore, I provided sufficient evidence to show that he can clearly withstand far more than 100 tons (nukes, a blast from black bolt, a blast from galactus)
If the heat of the sun or a nuclear bomb can't harm the hulk, what good would lasers do?
My opponent again references the movie. As I said in the opening round, consideration should be given to these examples, but as a movie and a comic must be dramatic, there will always be plot devices which ensure that the film remains exciting.
On that note, the abomination would also likely defeat Ironman, in a plot device free zone.

b - Strength - Dropped.

3) The Ironman can't fly forever, nor can he fly that fast and remain within New York.
Just by clapping the hulk can create a force more powerful than a hurricane [http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com...]
The hulk is not without ranged capabilities. Furthermore, if Ironman never engages the hulk, he cannot win, as he must kill him to win.

Quite simply:
Ironman lacks the capacity to kill the hulk due to Hulk's insane healing factor (much, much, much better than wolverines) and toughness, and the Hulk would get more powerful the more Ironman tried.
In close quarters the Hulk would utterly destroy Ironman, easily crushing his armour.
At a range, eventually Ironman would run out of power, if he chose to remain far away, or get destroyed by Hulk's claps if he tried to engage from a range. Ironman could not hide effectively either, as the Hulk would easily level New York. What is a city compared to tectonic plates, or planets?
Debate Round No. 3
cheesedingo1

Pro

Final Round.

1)My opponent doubted my sources, but he himself provides no sources. coincidence? I think NOT! Banner has not made any great industries and while he shows inteligence that the comics, my opponent has not defended the fact that he is less inteligent in his hulk form. The hulk is not as smart in his hulk form, and Tony is smart the entire time, if not smarter due to the statistics and all the stuff that helps him from his visor and his digital butler. In hulk form, in the link for clapping hurricanes that my opponent provided, he spoke about himself in the 3rd person, showing uninteligence, further strengthening my argument.

2)
A - You provided a comic book page that didnt say in any way that it had to do with 100 trillion tons, so his source has less base than mine... And the pictures that my opponent provided showed the hulk with armor, and in this battle he has no armor. That is from previous battles, and if my opponent says he does have it, he will be contradicting himself from his own conditions in round 1. The armor helped him stop it.
On that note, the abomination would also likely defeat Ironman, in a plot device free zone
My opponent didn't refute this point, and only diverted our eyes with stuff from the comic. My opponent will accept links from the comics, but not the movie? How very hipocritical. Also, in the comics, (I havent read them and since there is only a 30 minute time limit I had no time to read them) I assume that the hulk had troubles right? Stan Lee made no comic where the character just ran over every enemy with absolutely no restraint. The Hulk absolutely had trials, and would definately lose against Iron Man.

B - I guess I win this point.

3)The hulk is not without ranged capabilities. Furthermore, if Ironman never engages the hulk, he cannot win, as he must kill him to win.
First, Iron Man could probably destroy the hulk with a couple of the missles, as my opponent has yet to attack. Secondly, the Hulk can get tired. Everyone gets tired. The hulk is not a god. He can get tired. Thirdly, Iron Man's speed could avoid a hurricane. He would dodge all of the Hulk's attacks, and then blow him up.

In close quarters the Hulk would utterly destroy Ironman, easily crushing his armour.
As I have said repeatedly, Iron Man would stay out of the attack range of the Hulk with his speed. If there ever was the of chance that it would result in close quarters, Iron Man would shoot a critical hit pulst blast that would abliderate the Hulk.

At a range, eventually Ironman would run out of power, if he chose to remain far away, or get destroyed by Hulk's claps if he tried to engage from a range.
The Hulk has claps, whilst Iron Man has lasers, missles, and pulse cannons from his hand. The Hulk isn't fast enough to dodge those attacks, whilst Iron Man can dodge them.

In conclusion, Iron Man is superior to the Hulk in all but defense. Still, the attack and speed factors would overwhelm the hulk and render him helpless. I thank my opponent Thaddeus for accepting this debate, and for all of the readers and voters for reading this.

Thank you.

VOTE FOR PRO!

IRON MAN FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!!!!
Thaddeus

Con

Another poor showing from my opponent.

"1)My opponent doubted my sources, but he himself provides no sources. coincidence? I think NOT!"
I had already provided them the previous round. You didn't respond to them. You are at fault here. This alone is a concession.

As the link I provided in round 2 states; in the Hulk's professor hulk incarnation, he retains Banner's intelligence. My opponent seems ignorant of the fact that there are multiple incarnations of the hulk.

"And the pictures that my opponent provided showed the hulk with armor, and in this battle he has no armor. That is from previous battles, and if my opponent says he does have it, he will be contradicting himself from his own conditions in round 1. The armor helped him stop it."
Are you kidding? That armour is regular metal. Against Skaar, he might as well be wearing his purple shorts for all the extra protection it gives. I am arguing he doesn't have it, but doesn't need it.
Here is a link establishing that Skaar was fighting with 100 trillion ton level strength [http://marvel.wikia.com...(Earth-616)]

"My opponent didn't refute this point, and only diverted our eyes with stuff from the comic. My opponent will accept links from the comics, but not the movie? "
I actually pointed you to the first round where I said there are thousands examples of these times when x has beaten y, through plot device (for example, hulk by himself has trashed the entire avengers including ironman - see avengers 1). It is utterly irrelevant to the debate however, as plot device was in play.
Furthermore, yes, it has been established that the movies are not canon, so are inferior sources to the comics.

" Also, in the comics, (I havent read them and since there is only a 30 minute time limit I had no time to read them) I assume that the hulk had troubles right? Stan Lee made no comic where the character just ran over every enemy with absolutely no restraint."

That was my point genius. Plot device. Please do be so polite to actually read my arguments.

"The Hulk absolutely had trials, and would definately lose against Iron Man."
Assertion without warrant.

B - "I guess I win this point."
In crazy land, does dropping an argument mean you win? As I stated, and proved, Hulk has much superior strength to Ironman (functionally infinite). You failed to respond to this, so you dropped it.


"Everyone gets tired. The hulk is not a god. He can get tired. Thirdly, Iron Man's speed could avoid a hurricane. He would dodge all of the Hulk's attacks, and then blow him up."

Hulks stamina is based on his anger. The longer the battle goes on, the longer he can fight. Ironman could not dodge a hurricane if he is engaging the Hulk, and for the hundredth time, Ironman's weapons could barely harm the Hulk, let alone blow him up.

"As I have said repeatedly, Iron Man would stay out of the attack range of the Hulk with his speed. If there ever was the of chance that it would result in close quarters, Iron Man would shoot a critical hit pulst blast that would abliderate the Hulk."
If he stays out of range, then he runs out power and loses. If he fights, he loses. The most powerful blast of ironman's is far weaker (like a worm compared to human difference) than Black Bolt's blast, the Human Torches Nova or Skaar fighting at 100 trillion ton strength, all of which the Hulk has survived. You have provided no evidence Ironman could even scratch Hulk, let alone kill him.

"The Hulk has claps, whilst Iron Man has lasers, missles, and pulse cannons from his hand. The Hulk isn't fast enough to dodge those attacks, whilst Iron Man can dodge them."
Irrelevant if they only make Hulk stronger.

My opponent has consistently made assertions without warrant, used poor sources which have no bearing on the arguments, and failed to read my arguments. The readers have no choice but to Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 4
43 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by AlyHo11 4 years ago
AlyHo11
Iron Man did not just lose... did he? NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by bridgetg 4 years ago
bridgetg
Iron Man went to space, he can fly, he doesn't fall when he gets shot(unlike Hulk) and he has a shirt on.
Posted by Q12 4 years ago
Q12
I think the hulk is stronger because when the army guys attack him their always sending troops, tanks, missiles, and all that stuff but he always end's up winning.
Posted by singingboy2 4 years ago
singingboy2
The hulk jumped right back up after black bolt's whisper in close range. Wolverine took almost ten minuets to recover and he was across the room.
Posted by sadolite 4 years ago
sadolite
My comment is decades old. LOL
Posted by ProwlerKnight 4 years ago
ProwlerKnight
and @sadolite the argument is based on Comic books, not the movie
Posted by ProwlerKnight 4 years ago
ProwlerKnight
Hulk is not indestructble, I mean Deadpool killed him in the Deadpool Kills Marvel Universe series. Yes he waited till Hulk turned into Banner but still, no more Banner, no more Hulk, so no Hulk DOES have an achilles heal, it's just difficult to use unless you resort to the sneaky tactics of an assassin.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
I don't have to tell it to anyone, It is a matter of fictional fact. Saw it and heard it with my own two eyes and ears right there on the big screen.
Posted by DebateBehemoth 5 years ago
DebateBehemoth
Tell that to this website
http://www.factpile.com...
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
"Hulks only flaw is the time it takes to be that strong but it only takes minutes to do so

He has learned to control his change on demand. In the latest Avenger movie, he can change in less than 5 seconds
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by KingTyler18 5 years ago
KingTyler18
cheesedingo1ThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Better sources. Iron Man is awesome but he is the freaking Hulk.
Vote Placed by tvellalott 5 years ago
tvellalott
cheesedingo1ThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: This goes to Thaddeus. cheese, you knew the movie content well (though you clearly haven't seen the Avenger movie, because it's made clear in that that the Hulk can beat Ironman) but not the Earth 616 canon Thaddeus specified in his first round. This is the best canon because of all the many, many stories, the canon is the official versions. You could have argued if you'd been allowed the Hulkbuster armour, but alas... you lost.
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 5 years ago
ConservativePolitico
cheesedingo1ThaddeusTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con used much more reliable sources than Pro citing Marvel data bases with credible footnotes. Con also refuted each and every one of Pro's arguments while making his own. He established Hulk as the superior hero.
Vote Placed by Hardcore.Pwnography 5 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
cheesedingo1ThaddeusTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Thad only proved that the Iron Man would not win against Hulk, but didn't prove that Hulk would defeat Iron Man. He did not provide his own arguments, but merely refuted PROs.
Vote Placed by bossyburrito 5 years ago
bossyburrito
cheesedingo1ThaddeusTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Thad refuted all of Pro's arguments, used the sources stated in the first round, and didn't drop args. Plus, he was probably drunk.