The Instigator
Turtel
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
LB628
Pro (for)
Winning
44 Points

Is ADHD a real disease?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/29/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 15,393 times Debate No: 8460
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (9)

 

Turtel

Con

Con/Against - Not a real disease and against ritalin use maybe
Pro/For - Believe it is a real disease and also possibly accept ritalin use

Just so you know where I clearly stand on this topic and connected topics I shall introduce myself. My name us Joel Turtel, author of "Public Schools Public Menace" which you can read more about on my blog http://www.mykidsdeservebetter.com.... I've dedicated years of my life to such debates and topics. I pride myself in getting parents world wide to think longer on the decisions they make.

This one is the ADHD debate obviously and here is what I have to say on it...

The vast majority of Ritalin and Adderall is given to school children to treat an alleged disease called ADHD. Children who suffer from ADHD are said to be inattentive, impulsive, and hyperactive. They often get bored easily in class, squirm in their seats, are always on the go, or don't get along with other students or the teacher. In other words, many children diagnosed with ADHD may simply be normal kids, full of energy and bored out of their minds sitting in public-school classrooms.

Testimony from Experts about so-called ADHD

In his testimony to the Pennsylvania House Democratic Policy Committee, Bruce Wiseman, National President of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, stated that "thousands of children put on psychiatric drugs are simply 'smart.'" He quoted the late Sydney Walker, a psychiatrist and neurologist, as saying, "They're hyper not because their brains don't work right, but because they spend most of the day waiting for slower students to catch up with them. These students are bored to tears, and people who are bored fidget, wiggle, scratch, stretch, and (especially if they are boys) start looking for ways to get into trouble."

Boredom is not the only reason children can exhibit symptoms of ADHD. Perfectly normal children who are over-active (have a lot of energy), rebellious, impulsive, day-dreamers, sensitive, undisciplined, bored easily (because they are bright), slow in learning, immature, troubled (for any number of reasons), learning disabled (dyslexia, for example), can also be inattentive, impulsive, or hyperactive.

Many other medical conditions or emotional problems can mimic ADHD "symptoms"
Also, many factors outside the classroom can stress or emotionally affect children. Some of these factors are: not getting love, closeness, or attention from their parents; if a parent, friend, or sibling is sick or dies; if the parents are divorcing and there is anger, shouting, or conflict at home; domestic violence at home; sexual, physical, or emotional abuse by parents or siblings; inattention and neglect at home; personality clashes with parents or siblings; envy or cruelty directed at a child by classmates or by siblings at home, and many other factors.

Also, many other medical conditions can cause children to mimic some or all of ADHD's symptoms. Some of these conditions are: Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), allergies, learning disabilities, hyper or hypothyroidism, hearing and vision problems, mild to high lead levels, spinal problems, toxin exposures, carbon monoxide poisoning, metabolic disorders, genetic defects, sleeping disorders, post-traumatic subclinical seizure disorder, high mercury levels, iron deficiency, B-vitamin deficiencies (from poor diet), Tourette's syndrome, Sensory Integration Dysfunction, early-onset diabetes, heart disease, cardiac conditions, early-onset bipolar disorder, worms, viral and bacterial infections, malnutrition or improper diet, head injuries, lack of exercise, and many others.

Because these medical conditions can cause some or all of ADHD's symptoms, it becomes next to impossible for any teacher, principal, or family doctor to claim with any certainty that a child has ADHD. To be certain, a doctor would have to test the child for all these other possible medical conditions. Since parents or doctors rarely do this, every diagnosis of ADHD is suspect, to say the least.

Any of these medical conditions, normal personality variations, emotional problems, or outside-the-classroom stress-factors can disturb a child's attention, natural enthusiasm, or desire to learn in class, and make the child exhibit symptoms of ADHD. Yet, as psychiatrist Peter R. Breggin, author of Talking Back To Ritalin, and director of the International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology, notes, "These are the types of children who get diagnosed as suffering ADHD and who get subdued with stimulants and other medications."

Parents, do not fall for the ADHD arguments that some public school authorities are now attempting to foist on you and your children. ADHD turns out to be a questionable "disease" at best, and a bogus disease at worst. Some public schools now use this alleged ADHD disease as a convenient excuse to pressure parents to give their normal but bored or high-energy children mind-altering drugs. I also urge you to read Dr. Breggin's book, Talking Back To Ritalin.

Joel Turtel
LB628

Pro

To introduce myself, I am one of those kids diagnosed with ADHD. I am here on the pro because it does affect me, and it should not be dismissed, in the same way as those with other disorders should not be dismissed.

Now, one point that my opponent consistently hammers in is that children diagnosed with ADHD could simply be normal children, who are bored because they are more intelligent than others in their class. The problem with this, is that an ADHD diagnosis applies for those who consistently and over a long period of time, show these symptoms to a greater degree than would otherwise be expected. So while the symptoms may be in other, normal kids, my opponent misrepresents the degree to which it is present in those with ADHD.
The second point is that the inattentiveness results from boredom with the classroom setting. Now, to an extent, this is true. I am more intelligent than others in my class, and I am bored with a number of my classes. The problem is, inattentiveness and hyperactivity are not limited to the classroom. For instance, when I am with my debate team, who are in all cases my intellectual equals, and in some my superiors, and we work on fascinating problems, I am prone to inattentiveness. Other things will simply grab my attention. So the problem does not result from boredom in the classroom.
The third point is that ADHD-like symptoms can result from other factors. While this is true, there are several problems with going from here to the idea that ADHD does not exist. The first is that this is true with several other diseases, in particular those class of diseases which are only diagnosed clinically. The second, once again, the prolonged factor in a diagnosis.
From Wikipedia

DSM-IV criteria

I. Either A or B: A. Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

1. Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
2. Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.
3. Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
4. Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
5. Often has trouble organizing activities.
6. Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
7. Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
8. Is often easily distracted.
9. Often forgetful in daily activities.

B. Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have been present for at least 6 months to an extent that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

* Hyperactivity:

1. Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
2. Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.
3. Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).
4. Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.
5. Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
6. Often talks excessively.

* Impulsiveness:

1. Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.
2. Often has trouble waiting one's turn.
3. Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).

II. Some symptoms that cause impairment were present before age 7 years.

III. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g. at school/work and at home).

IV. There must be clear evidence of significant impairment in social, school, or work functioning.

Note that it says the symptoms must have been present for at least six months. This rules out any possible short term causes.

The final issue with saying it can be caused by other factors is that my opponent does not understand exactly what goes on with a diagnosis. I will give my personal experience with it. I was in the six grade. We had just moved to Atlanta. My parents took me to a child psychologist. I took tests for a couple of hours, by which I mean hand-eye coordination, various aptitude, math, reading, memory, etcetera. My parents were given several sheets of questions, which I believe contained questions about possible other issues, my schooling, and various questions about my life and life-style. The point of this recollection is that a diagnosis does not come solely from observing the child. It also tries to rule out other factors.

One of the assumptions underlying my opponents arguments is that all ADHD diagnoses are children. This is not true. Again from Wikipedia. "In North America and Europe, it is estimated that 3-5% of adults have ADHD, but only about 10% of those have received a formal diagnosis." http://en.wikipedia.org...
The fact that this is not true undermines many of his arguments concerning classroom environment and social issues.

While I do not use Ritalin, I do use Adderall. And so, I would like to close with several anecdotes, from times when I have forgotten to take it. Impulse control is a big one. Multiple times, I have felt impulses to jump from high places, not because of any desire for suicide, but simply because I wondered what it would feel like, to fall. I have had issues with fire, when I was in middle school, because it was so fascinating. It would constantly be moving, and it burned stuff! Impulse control is particularly difficult, as may be expected, when I am with my friends. There was one time when I laughed for literally 10 minutes, not because what had occurred was particularly funny, but because I simply could not stop. These impulses usually manifest themselves as a 'what-if, like what if I did this, without consideration of the possible consequences, but simply because I want to see it happen.

In short, ADHD does affect people, and attempting to deny it based on its similarity to the behavior of normal children, or because symptoms like it can be caused by other things simply ignores the specifications of an ADHD diagnosis, and assumes that all of those diagnosed are adults.
Debate Round No. 1
Turtel

Con

Firstly my use of "disease" is applicable to the disease in society and public schools.

Thank you for a nice introduction and letting us know you do suffer from ADHD. However you do confirm yourself that you are self diagnosed in a way because you feel it effects you. Some and lot of children do not get that chance and I believe this could be an abuse of human rights; we are talking mind altering drugs here.

"consistently and over a long period of time, show these symptoms to a greater degree than would otherwise be expected"

Who has set the maximum limit for a childs level of energy, brain activity and the need to let it out? Public Schools set the bar for this way too low for a start. Consider what a child could acheive if they were helped to find the very thing in life that makes them happy. There are many well known entertainers who have almost been diagnosed with ADHD but their parents refused to use ritilan and they strongly believe that if they had been giving ritilan they could not possibly be who they are today. There are people from all disciplines around the world on the internet who say the same thing.

The problem with society is everyone and everything wants to be perfect but it should not be applied to humans. While on that note there is a very interesting video on my blog http://www.mykidsdeservebetter.com... if you hit play and watch it.

"For instance, when I am with my debate team, who are in all cases my intellectual equals, and in some my superiors, and we work on fascinating problems, I am prone to inattentiveness"

Why exactly is this a problem? If you can say you are smarter than other people in your class then why do you need to be good at everything? Have you considered that you as an individual are just meant to walk down a certain path of life that includes this activity. In order for you to have realise how smart you are there must be something you are good at and maybe that is your purprise in life. Do you need to be diagnosed with ADHD to fulfull that role for the rest of time?

As for your big list of symptoms for what you are saying is not a disease. It is just list of rules for children to "learn" they are not born with them programmed in and they will not learn them for many many years. Problem is society wants to make children learn faster and quicker every generation because there is more to learn. It won't work however and it is the emense amount of learning and pressure that is driving childrens minds to be a tanglement of information. It used to be that children learned at school but now 1 hour on TV sends hundreds of messages to a child. Also we're not all meant to learn everything! Some of the smartest people in the world know nothing about some of the main stream subjects taught in every school.

So what if a kid would rather climb the walls than watch a geography video, give that kid climbing lessons and a rope!

"III. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g. at school/work and at home)."

Have you seen the statistics for large familys with 3 or more children? Every year the ADHD diagnoses for these familys only...rises higher than on average for ALL familys. Does that not tell you something? The information can easily be Googled, it's everywhere people are just blind to it. The answer is that these children just have busier more exciting lifes but instead of letting them burn up that excitement we try to make them sit still, stay put, don't move, do nothing, don't do that, watch the TV and be quite and so on.

"Note that it says the symptoms must have been present for at least six months. This rules out any possible short term causes."

6 Months out of a childs life is a bit quick to drug them don't you think. Diagnoses them with something they will grow up believing they have and the cure is drugs instead of mental will power.

Nice that my opponent is being open but while you are how about possible telling us your feelings as a child regarding moving homes? Moving states, disruption, change of schools, change of friends. My experiance in familys that move to entire new states is they move a lot or have little support from other family. Have you considered that with all this going it may just have caused your young little mind to get all tangled up and because you are so young you have no idea how to deal with it?

""In North America and Europe, it is estimated that 3-5% of adults have ADHD, but only about 10% of those have received a formal diagnosis." http://en.wikipedia.org......
The fact that this is not true undermines many of his arguments concerning classroom environment and social issues."

Those statistics change with the wind and weather opponent and I cannot possibly update them in all my text.

"While I do not use Ritalin, I do use Adderall. And so, I would like to close with several anecdotes, from times when I have forgotten to take it. Impulse control is a big one. Multiple times, I have felt impulses to jump from high places, not because of any desire for suicide, but simply because I wondered what it would feel like, to fall."

I have my webmaster reading this with me and he finds this comment very interesting and give me permission to discuss his point of view. He said that he has felt the same way and not only that he has jumped off high bridges into rivers to find out what it is like to fall. He thinks that is i crazy to use such an example as evidence of ADHD and so do I. He has also served in the Army because he wants to find out what it is like to be in the heat of battle and fighting. My webmaster says all his life he has had the " sudden impulse to get up and run for miles, climb a dangerous rock face or a tree higher than his house just because I want to see what it is like". I use him because my child hood was a while back however I remember being highly hyper and the remedy? Go outside and be free like a child. My webmaster is not long out of University but says he was very misbehaved through school and one of the worst in his class. He blames growing up and that if society does not need to class childrends behaviour at such a young age as wrong. It is simply just growing up.

Are you scared because you want to experiance high falling? If that is your arge I assume you have jump out of an aeroplane or considered being a paratrooper or does the drugs suppress this desire? Maybe your not walking the path that you were born to walk now!!!

That is what I'm camaigning against, the alteration of ones mind which alters their destiny.
LB628

Pro

First, I believe I misinterpreted the topic. Is this about the use of medication as treatment, or the existence of ADHD? I believe it is the former, and I will proceed with that for this round.

Second, once again, the fact that there are numerous adults who have been diagnosed with ADHD removes arguments about classroom settings, and excessive energy.

"Who has set the maximum limit for a childs level of energy, brain activity and the need to let it out? Public Schools set the bar for this way too low for a start."

Public schools do not set that limit. When it comes to diagnoses, that limit is set by child psychologists.

=================================================================

"Why exactly is this a problem? If you can say you are smarter than other people in your class then why do you need to be good at everything? Have you considered that you as an individual are just meant to walk down a certain path of life that includes this activity. In order for you to have realise how smart you are there must be something you are good at and maybe that is your purprise in life. Do you need to be diagnosed with ADHD to fulfull that role for the rest of time?"

This is non-responsive. What my point was addressing was the fact that inattentiveness occurs even in situations where a child is not bored.

=====================================================================

"As for your big list of symptoms for what you are saying is not a disease. It is just list of rules for children to "learn" they are not born with them programmed in and they will not learn them for many many years."

It is a set of societal norms which children are expected, and indeed, everyone is expected to know and follow if they expect to interact with society at large. Saying that we should not expect children to obey these if they do not wish to essentially frees a parent from any responsibility in their parenting, as well as creating societal anarchy, by saying we do not have to accept the rules of society.
Please not I am not arguing for rigid conformity. I am simply saying there needs to be some limits to which people have to constrain themselves, if they wish to interact with society.

==================================================================

"Some of the smartest people in the world know nothing about some of the main stream subjects taught in every school."

Who? Are you saying some of the smartest people in the world are illiterate? Or know nothing of addition? Or perhaps we have just set a new standard for intelligence.

=====================================================================

"6 Months out of a childs life is a bit quick to drug them don't you think. Diagnoses them with something they will grow up believing they have and the cure is drugs instead of mental will power."

Not when considering most diagnoses also take into account the child's history. And remember, most parents probably do not want their child to be diagnosed.

=====================================================================
"Nice that my opponent is being open but while you are how about possible telling us your feelings as a child regarding moving homes? Moving states, disruption, change of schools, change of friends. My experiance in familys that move to entire new states is they move a lot or have little support from other family. Have you considered that with all this going it may just have caused your young little mind to get all tangled up and because you are so young you have no idea how to deal with it?"

I was pretty messed up for about a year after that, but consider two things. One, the diagnosis took into account my past, and second, the messed up mostly manifested itself as anger, not as excessive energy, or inability to pay attention.

==============================================================

What my opponent seems to be arguing is that we should not set limits on childrens behavior, and that we do not have to enforce the barest minimum of societal standards for behavior, because that is just how children are. This ignores several issues. First, children will eventually grow up to be adults. And look at what occurs with children who lacked parental attention and guidance. There tends to be higher rates of crime, lower income levels, etcetera. Second, children interact with other children. Couple that with the fact that young children tend to be rather vicious, and then remove parental limitations.

Ultimately, some sort of standards for interaction with society need to exist, and everyone needs to follow these standards. At the point where medication is necessary, be it for ADHD, or schizophrenia, it should be used. If it becomes unnecessary, then it should not.
Debate Round No. 2
Turtel

Con

It may surprise you to know that I have two degree's one being in Psychology. I don't make my judgement and opinion based on what I read in the media or online.

There is no doubt in my mind that children are being pushed into a ADHD state of mind by todays society mainly by school or parents who have far more too cope with than bringing up a new born. Todays stresses and pressures are being echoed through parents to their children and it's a strong cause of ADHD simply because a childs ears and eyes take it all in but they cannot make sense of it.

The whole argument of giving drugs to children to me is easy. You just cannot drug a brain that is still developing and all we need to do is direct them to a place of strength, that will be the cure.

I believe my point so much that I would bet a lot of money that my opponent did not have a balanced life during child hood. I would bet that there was some kind of dysfunction, an emtional atmosphere that disconnected my oponent from mum or dad maybe even the rest of the family. I would bet the same with all ADHD suffers and not because of statistics or believe. Simply because I have never found a ADHD suffer who was brought up in a strong, secure, loving, safe and well balanced family home. When I find an ADHD suffer from a well balanced family that will be the day I rethink a few things.

The problem there is many people shut out their child hood and that effort is part of the cause of why a child cannot focus or concentrate on other things. Things they are expected to learn otherwise they must have something wrong with them!

I would be interested to know how much research my opponent has done into the years before ADHD was invented! Considering that psychology has been studied forever why has ADHD only recently had a need to exist? Psychologist document all behaviour and patterns but only in recent years did ADHD come about desite even smaller less sensative issues being treated as a big deal! Psychologist could have created the condition hundreds of years ago if ADHD is really only controllable by drugs but they never because it did not exist!

Someone (Sarah) commented on my new forum after reading this debate (visit to confirm the comment)...
http://mykidsdeservebetter.com...

She said "When I was at School there was two boys in the classroom who had ADHD and were good friends. It was the worse combination and they were bullies for years. Until one day they both got a serious beating and spent a night in hospital after bullying the wrong little brother. After that the boys were quiet, shy and made an effort to get on with people with extra polite mannered. It was amazing, like they had been replaced and only in recent years did I realise that ADHD could not just go away. My parents knew their parents so I know they were taking drugs for ADHD before the serious assault on them but the whole thing makes me against giving drugs to children now. What if we are wrong? It's scary to think maybe a lot of ADHD kids are just really bad behaved because they are simply slower and that is not a bad thing.".

I'm in contact with parents and people with similiar stories. Most of them end in the same way, is it so bad that a child cannot give something a lot of attention? Should we not nature what they want to do and make the most of that? If we had this approach would ADHD still exist or would it be replaced with schemes that allow our children to go at life with the full speed their minds want to take them at?
LB628

Pro

I am just going to refute my opponents remaining points, then do an overview and voters.

My opponent has yet to answer the argument that not all identified cases of ADHD are children, which refutes and arguments about classroom settings or school in general.

==========================================================

"I believe my point so much that I would bet a lot of money that my opponent did not have a balanced life during child hood. I would bet that there was some kind of dysfunction, an emtional atmosphere that disconnected my oponent from mum or dad maybe even the rest of the family. I would bet the same with all ADHD suffers and not because of statistics or believe. Simply because I have never found a ADHD suffer who was brought up in a strong, secure, loving, safe and well balanced family home. When I find an ADHD suffer from a well balanced family that will be the day I rethink a few things."

Actually, I kind of did. I have had both parents my whole life, a fairly active social life, no abnormal physical health issues, normal developmental speed, etcetera. The only issue was when I moved 5 years ago, but it only took me about a year to get over that. So please, rethink.

============================================================

"I would be interested to know how much research my opponent has done into the years before ADHD was invented! Considering that psychology has been studied forever why has ADHD only recently had a need to exist? Psychologist document all behaviour and patterns but only in recent years did ADHD come about desite even smaller less sensative issues being treated as a big deal! Psychologist could have created the condition hundreds of years ago if ADHD is really only controllable by drugs but they never because it did not exist!"

This is honestly laughable. 400 years ago, people believed the insane were possessed by demons. Medical science and psychology, only really started to advance 75-50 years ago.

=========================================================
It's scary to think maybe a lot of ADHD kids are just really bad behaved because they are simply slower and that is not a bad thing.".

I'm in contact with parents and people with similiar stories. Most of them end in the same way, is it so bad that a child cannot give something a lot of attention? Should we not nature what they want to do and make the most of that? If we had this approach would ADHD still exist or would it be replaced with schemes that allow our children to go at life with the full speed their minds want to take them at?

Now you are just contradicting yourself. In the first round, the issue was that kids with ADHD were more intelligent than those around them, now its that they are less. Which is it?
As for whether or not we should let children do what they wish, does this include dangerous things? Parenting must include guidance and structure, not simply acting as an enabler for anything the child wishes to do.

=====================================

Alright. My opponent as yet to refute my arguments pertaining to adults, pertaining to the necessity of societal norms, or pertaining to diagnostic requirements. He simply comes, and repeats himself.
As such, because the activities, energy level, and inattentiveness of children range outside of those considered usual for children, ADHD does exist, and is a real mental disorder.
Because some level of societal norms must exist, if medication is an acceptable way of maintaining societal norms, then medication for ADHD is fine.

There is really no choice but a Pro vote.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by pensfan 1 year ago
pensfan
you cant say it is just normal kids being normal kids. yes, a lot of kids don't pay attention but for most of them its because they don't want to. for people with adhd it is hard to pay attention. I know for me no matter how hard I try to pay attention I cant, i cant sit still, im always tapping my feet and playing with my pen. trying to make me sit still is like trying to get a 4 year old to sit still after giving them a bucket of chocolate, nearly impossible. And im pretty sure it is about the same for everyone else with adhd. So it is a real disorder.
Posted by acecombat2 1 year ago
acecombat2
Can this be called... Dyslexia or rather the environment couldn't allow to be themselves.....
Posted by acecombat2 1 year ago
acecombat2
Can this be called... Dyslexia or rather the environment couldn't allow to be themselves.....
Posted by blparis 4 years ago
blparis
Also, fix the fact that kids never get time during the day to play outside or have a break from all the mental rigors they place on them through their own idiocy. Fix the schools that don't bother teaching the kids that don't fit the cookie-cutter mold of the "perfect child"...the ones who would rather pass them on to the next teacher by moving them to resources or special education classes or through social promotions that make the matter worse. These kids are usually smarter than average, but with idiot teachers who are lazy and not smart enough to recognize their intellectual capabilities, the AD/HD kids get a less than acceptable education. Fix the attitude of a person who only works 9 months out of the year for a full year's worth of wages, benefits, retirement, in a climate-controlled environment all day where the scenery changes constantly, bankers hours & every holiday & three months off in the summer...then STILL COMPLAINS that they do not get paid enough and has the nerve to also complain that not every child will sit still all day in their precious classroom. "How dare they not pay attention to what I am saying." It is a crying shame that people who don't have a clue what AD/HD does to a child can consider themselves an expert on what to do to help the child who, by law, MUST attend these classes (unless the parents are in a unique position to homeschool-which most are not-especially low-income families). I bet if you bother to ask these parents, they would also choose NOT to medicate their children. They probably have labored long & hard about their decision to put their own child who they love on these kinds of medications just so they can conform within "the system" that has been developed by such infantile and closed-minded "leaders," if you want to call them that. I, too, dispute the validity of your "degree" when you have such little knowledge of the matter. Again, I invite a first-hand contact to help you understand, if you are interested.
Posted by blparis 4 years ago
blparis
I take it that you have no children. My grown nephew has the same closed-minded point of view as this when he has no children of his own and can easily sit back and judge the behavior of others when he has no personal knowledge of what the parents of these kids are going through. The real truth is that the school systems really are horrible, as you state. But try to change it and you end up with a few more closed-minded teachers who have the future of your child in their hands and under their complete control in your absence who take their frustration for you out on your child and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it. So, if you do not have a child with the disorder that you say does not exist, I challenge you to send me an email and we will get together. I'll put you in check with real scenarios in real life that are affected by the non-existent disorder so I can hopefully educate you about something you have obviously never been exposed to before. Have you ever spent any time (longer than a month or two) with people who have actually been diagnosed with AD/HD so you can watch them and see for yourself if they behave differently or not? I don't mean just kids, but grown-ups, too? Yes, adults have it too, because kids have it and you never outgrow it. It's crazy how people discount the existence of AD/HD when they don't have any medical knowledge or personal experience with it. Do you also discount the existence of depression, bi-polar, fibromyalgia, dyslexia, learning disabilities, autism, asperger's syndrome and all other disorders that do not have physical traits that can be used for a diagnosis? The problem with people like you is that you complain about what people are doing to try to help their children cope with the system that is in place, but do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to fix the SYSTEM itself? Want to get these kids off these drugs? Then fix the attitude of teachers and educational administrators who will not let "kids be kids" anymore.
Posted by cookielove13 4 years ago
cookielove13
I find it comical that Turtel claims to have a degree in psychology.

I too have a degree in psychology, and from what you state in your debate, it seems that you could seriously use to review the literature on ADHD. I have not found any evidence in the literature to support the opinions you assert as facts on your side of the debate.

Kudos to LB628 for using her brain and finding some information that actually has scientific data to support it!
Posted by feverish 5 years ago
feverish
Yes it is real, no it is not a disease.

Very entertaining debate, funny to see a writer on the subject get ripped to pieces by a kid with the condition, can't vote but all hypothetical points to pro.
Posted by MTGandP 5 years ago
MTGandP
Conduct: TIE.
S&G: I didn't like Pro's use of commas, but that's not really a mistake. Con had many obvious mistakes. PRO.
Arguments: Con's arguments were filled with holes and Pro's arguments were not adequately refuted. PRO.
Sources: Pro had a few, and Con only had his own blog. PRO.
Posted by Turtel 5 years ago
Turtel
Yes although I have endless data and statistics on this subject I'm not used to the website or debating online. I tend not to retrieve what I need and simply write what I think and know from experiance but this loses points and I also voted that Pro provided the best anatomical data.

Thank you
Posted by JBlake 5 years ago
JBlake
I liked this debate. LB628 did a good job, even though he stole the debate I wanted to take. :)

My vote for argument/sources goes to Pro. He provided more scientific/anatomical data, while Con relied a little too heavily on opinion. Good debate on both sides though.

Con... Welcome to DDO!
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by pensfan 1 year ago
pensfan
TurtelLB628Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: I am also one of those kids with ADHD, along with dyslexia. it is not a disease either.
Vote Placed by caecandy 3 years ago
caecandy
TurtelLB628Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con failed to refute Pro's arguments and merely restated position without additional proof outside unfounded anecdotal evidence. He also included many logical fallacies and contradicted himself with arguments.
Vote Placed by arc4music 3 years ago
arc4music
TurtelLB628Tied
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Vote Placed by fineartstar 4 years ago
fineartstar
TurtelLB628Tied
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Vote Placed by cookielove13 4 years ago
cookielove13
TurtelLB628Tied
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Vote Placed by ClockworkPirate 5 years ago
ClockworkPirate
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Vote Placed by MTGandP 5 years ago
MTGandP
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Vote Placed by Lexicaholic 5 years ago
Lexicaholic
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Vote Placed by JBlake 5 years ago
JBlake
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