The Instigator
Africaded
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points
The Contender
logicrules
Con (against)
Losing
16 Points

Is African-American culture important in today's modern society?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
Africaded
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/30/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,978 times Debate No: 19573
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (9)

 

Africaded

Pro

I propose a question, is African-American culture important in today's modern society?
Well I say to you that with many contributions made to today's modern world, by African-Americans, our culture is not just apart of black culture rather than American culture. We have just as much a right to be recognized as any other significant man/women in text book like George Washington or FDR.
I believe Roosevelt said it based with this quote: "If we do not learn from past mistakes, history is doomed to repeat itself"
What I am trying to say is this...African American Culture should be recognized and studied or somehow we will miss something in life that could have been influential and used for a better society based out African-American past.
logicrules

Con

First, I apologize, I did not realize you were so young. Please forgive me if I presume knowledge you do not have simply because of your age.
Let me begin with a story, as a young man the idea of understanding other cultures gained momentum. The resulting classes were meant to impart an understanding of other cultures so as to facilitate understanding. The only culture we were required to study was African American. Without going into great detail, the course was merely an attempt to explain what we used to call prejudice.

Contained in your question is the implication that African American culture is uniquely important today and was not yesterday, nor will be tomorrow. This clearly indicates not even you think this culture is important, but only relevant given proper circumstances.

What is African American culture? Africa is a continent, not a country. Thus, there are a plethora of cultures, including Arab, that would need to be incorporated. America is two continents, meaning we would need to incorporate Mexican, Canadian, and US cultures, to name a few, which, presumably, you think are all contained in African American. Alternatively you mean Black in which case I defer to MLK who called us to base our determinations on the character of the individual and not the color of his skin.

Since you could not be basing this on the color of one's skin, that is fallacious and contrary to reason, I must believe you are talking about African culture. Thus, no, it has no place in US society or function though it does deserve its proper place in academic study. Also, it may be that we are all African, if the origins of man as determined by those who study such things are to be believed.
Debate Round No. 1
Africaded

Pro

First off I may be young but there is more to my intellect than meets the eye so do not belittle me.

Now it seems you have strayed off the specific topic. Your making an inference based upon your own perspective of words "African-American". When I asked "Is African-American culture important" I targeted men/women of that nationally in particular. When I say "African-American" I refer to Black men and women residing in America who's ancestry were slaves taken from their homeland. And if you actually based your opening statement off of facts rather than your own personal opinion you might have had a strong beginning.

I would like to point out that when you stated that Black culture is studied, it is true, we only have one month out 12 (30 days out of 365) to actually recognize the contributions given to society by Black men and women. You seem to think that we have daily lectures on this history. However from my years in school I've constantly heard and seen references of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, etc...but I have rarely witnessed the insert of African Americans. In my eyes this is insulting.
Critically thinking, why is it that history books focus more so on people of the Caucasians persuasion rather than people who's skin color is different. Why is that?
I find this to be unethical. We as a people have a right to study this side of America. Many people may not like it or deny this but our culture and history is just as any other country's history, we are basically half of a whole which we call America.
So with that being said I'd like to leave this quote to resignate with you while you try and process my rebuttal and respond.
" Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
logicrules

Con

Wiki is not a source, and the quote you are seeking is from Winston Churchill, one of the most racists leaders in all history, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
There is no better argument for my position. Those things we must learn from history are those of universal, not particular, importance. Should one be reading for a PhD perhaps the minutia of detail is of note, for the rest of us history is so diverse and broad that we must limit the study, through undergraduate at least, to the highlights. Thus, it is important to know that North and South America are continents and that there are indigenous people and imperial rulers. The determination of importance is not based on the color of one's skin, nor the status of one's great, great, great grandmother.

I said that as a young man I was REQUERED to study other cultures. I did study Black culture and learned time was not of importance to that culture so I should not require attendance the same as for whites. I choose, as Martin Luther King, to base my determination on the character of the individual not the color of the skin. Nor do I think that the fact that my ancestors were killed and imprisoned by the English, and refused work in the US, entitles me, in any way, to special treatment. The group most known for the color barrier are the Ku Klux Klan, and I don't hold to their beliefs. I see no reason to study African American History, as a specific discipline, unless it is a graduate course, three hours maximum. You claim it is important yet cite not one reason to support your claim, and when you do attempt a citation you miss the mark.

Any who base importance, or lack of importance, on race epitomize the racist and show their ignorance by asserting the point. Race should not enter into any decision, for it is merely an accident of genetics and not a substantive determiner, any more than hair color. As an aside, is race determined by skin color or national origen?

You ask about history texts but cite none, thus I have insufficient information upon which to base an answer. You claim to find "unethical" something, yet have yet to cite a moral operant upon which you would base a code of ethics you claim violated. All you have said, in sum and substance is, that you have seen insufficient information in your limited coursework to conform to your belief that Blacks were significant to US history, or perhaps you mean western civilization, I do not know. I do know that the freedom museum in the Midwest fails to get enough visitors, black or white or Asian, to support itself. Perhaps there just isn't as much of import as you would wish.

I would concede there could be a course in African American history, but it would pale to western civilization as, as you state, it barely covers 150 years. Thus we have, Civil War, Emancipation proclamation, WWI, Depression, WWII, Civil rights movement, riots and First Black President. I fail to see how that is sufficient for even a month, much less "important" to our society.
Debate Round No. 2
Africaded

Pro

I realize how you gather your information and I would have to say that although accurate, you do not seem to phrase your rebuttals correctly. Your still contradicting yourself. And the quote I made did not come from wikipedia, that website is highly inaccurate and unreliable, The quote is not derived from Winston Churchill but George Santayana from multiple books he has created based upon history and how mankind forget the past and are faced with what haunts them from that past and ultimately fail in life.

the fact that you believe we should only have three hours of Black, African-American, history is insulting. Honestly speaking, outside of my nationality, we study white, Caucasian, history throughout our lives within school and it seems you have the audacity to limit African-American history to a mere three hours. How dare you take away this justified and much deserved privilege of ours.

I have come to realize that whenever dealing with history or racial equality there is always at least one person who stands out with hatred and fear of change. It makes sense if you actually think about it. Who actually wants to change the idea of racial barriers and start educating white men/women about who they once hated...Black people. Have we lost our minds to try and force our history on you, I think not. If anything America, along with the rest of the world, would not be what they are today with black people. For instance, the Traffic Signals were invented by Garrett Augustus Morgan or the Laserphaco Probe invented by Patricia E. Bath, M.D. Do you realize what African-Americans have attained after years and years of slavery. Why shouldn't we be recognized of these accomplishments?

My Uncle, Fred Shuttlesworth had the honor of working with Dr. Martin Luther King jr. and I know for a fact that he would want African-American to be realized for what it truly is...American History. Our history is part of ya'll as well and there is no denying it. I know I may be young but I have a concept of what I am debating you about Sir and with all of my reasoning of your previous rebuttal you seem to turn to the side of racism. You brought up Winston Churchill and the Ku Klux Klan or the KKK. I believe you are utterly disgusted by the idea of spreading the knowledge of African-American history. So I leave you with this, even though racisum exists there will always come a time where justice and equality is realized.
logicrules

Con

I hate doing it this way…my apologies in advance.
realize how you gather your information and I would have to say that although accurate, you do not seem to phrase your rebuttals correctly. Your still contradicting yourself. And the quote I made did not come from wikipedia, that website is highly inaccurate and unreliable, The quote is not derived from Winston Churchill but George Santayana from multiple books he has created based upon history and how mankind forget the past and are faced with what haunts them from that past and ultimately fail in life.
Thus, you accept the accuracy of the facts as presented by me.
the fact that you believe we should only have three hours of Black, African-American, history is insulting. Honestly speaking, outside of my nationality, we study white, Caucasian, history throughout our lives within school and it seems you have the audacity to limit African-American history to a mere three hours. I suggest a contextual reading course as I argued the information, contained in the time frame you put forth, contained insufficient information relevant to a general history course. Your comment about caucasion history is just ignorant. Perhaps you need to study a bit more. You still offer no argument in support of your position, you engage in ad populem reasoning and whining. How dare you take away this justified and much deserved privilege of ours. This is the USA you have rights, enumerated in Law, but privilages are earned not granted on the basis of skin color. You show your true agenda here, it seems to have little nothing to do with history and everything to do with color in direct opposition to MLK and the Civil Rights Movement.

I have come to realize that whenever dealing with history History is fact, not a lot of dealing involved, thus irrelevant and immaterial to your position. or racial equality Matter of Law, no need for you to deal with it unless you are a Supreme Court Justice. Further, the Supreme Court has held in Brown v Board of education that an institution being all Black is inferior, go figure. there is always at least one person who stands out with hatred and fear of change. Your comments show you hate people or caucasions, and fear learning what is so, that you might better understand what needs to change. (as an aside, I was threatened by the KKK in Mississippi about 25 years ago for educating their ,,,) It makes sense if you actually think about it. Who actually wants to change the idea of racial barriers and start educating white men/women about who they once hated...Black people. Have we lost our minds to try and force our history on you, I think not. If anything America, along with the rest of the world, would not be what they are today with black people. For instance, the Traffic Signals were invented by Garrett Augustus Morgan or the Laserphaco Probe invented by Patricia E. Bath, M.D. Do you realize what African-Americans have attained after years and years of slavery. Why shouldn't we be recognized of these accomplishments? They fail to rise to the universality test stated earlier. We do not learn who invented toilets (Crapper) nor who invented the rake either. Besides, patent law is boring as heck.

My Uncle, Fred Shuttlesworth had the honor of working with Dr. Martin Luther King jr. and I know for a fact that he would want African-American to be realized for what it truly is...American History. Our history is part of ya'll as well and there is no denying it. I know I may be young but I have a concept of what I am debating you about Sir and with all of my reasoning of your previous rebuttal you seem to turn to the side of racism. You brought up Winston Churchill and the Ku Klux Klan or the KKK. I believe you are utterly disgusted by the idea of spreading the knowledge of African-American history. So I leave you with this, even though racisum exists there will always come a time where justice and equality is realized. Last time I saw Rev. Shuttlesworth he was opposed to preverential treatment and supported equality and standards. If he is your uncle, may God rest his soul, perhaps you should study your family history. It need not be part of anyone's curriculum unless and until they learn the basics. We do not need to make things easier, we need to make school more difficult and, as I was concerned at the start of this debate, you are young and have much to learn and experience, I hope you learn to judge based on fact and character and not race and subjectivism for race and subjectivism are the domain of all racists of history.
You offered no facts to support your position. All of the arguments you attempted were fallacious. I do know you want us all to study and learn who invented traffic lights, yet the likes of Marshal, Powell, Obama and Augustine fail to get a mention from you. You dd not mention Frederick Douglas, nor the Irish Black slums of the late 19th century, all taught as "caucasion history". You chose traffic lights.
You sought to establish the importance of Black History to a society that is, by definition a melting pot. You proved nothing but your own desire for privilege attached to race, and that violates the principles of the USA. Should we begin the study of national origin studies as basic studies before grad school no one but blacks will learn black history, Irish will learn Irish American History, Italians, Chinese, Germans, etc. History is interesting but one needs the basics before becoming expert in the minutia you advocate for all.


Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by logicrules 5 years ago
logicrules
A bit of info for some. In order for a fact about a person to be an ad hominem it must be relied upon as proof an argument is false. To say Obama is a Black President is not ad Hominem, to say "Everyone knew this would not work, he's black" is probably ad hominem. It is funny that of the thirty some fallacies this is the one people assert. How bout all the Pos Hoc, and Petitio Principi used by my opponent?
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
Sorry simply because they are that race. i meant to use an example, but it came out wrong.
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
I assume you don't like racism? Well, its racist to favor one race over the other, simply because they are black. In history we study great people, and important historical events. Some of the people are black, some are white, but just because they invented something reasonably useful to society does not mean we will learn about them. There are lots of useful inventions that help society, but they inventors never get credit. Why? Well because there are so many! Just because they are black, and invented something reasonably useful does not mean they deserve a special place above say, the rocket.
Posted by logicrules 5 years ago
logicrules
Ad Hominem, translation of the person...traditionally it is to state a fact about a person with the purpose of refuting an argument. eg If Castro holds that 2+2=4, one refutes it with Castro is a communist ergo 2+2=5. I never used ad hominem, I did accept the DSM and AMA positions that young people are still learning and must be permitted the freedom for biological and intellectual growth. I gave ample opportunity for poor to assert his position with facts, he chose traffic lights, not I. I don't mind votes against me but I do protest willful ignorance.
Posted by jm_notguilty 5 years ago
jm_notguilty
JT... where aaaarrreeeee yoooouuuuuu
Posted by Kethen 5 years ago
Kethen
African American culture is studied....
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
Con is going to have a really hard time trying to argue that african-american culture is not important... However this will still be a very interesting debate...
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by cameronl35 5 years ago
cameronl35
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Ad hominem...whimsical refutations
Vote Placed by happy-bread 5 years ago
happy-bread
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con had more sound refutation but awful ethics
Vote Placed by wiploc 5 years ago
wiploc
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Behavior point for ad hominem attack.
Vote Placed by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Overall, wtf? It didn't seem like Ad Hominem attacks to me, but lay off CON XD! I thought that CON did a better job though...
Vote Placed by Rasheed 5 years ago
Rasheed
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con used an ad hominem attack in the very beginning and did not refute pros arguments adequately.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Africaded never gave a single argument and unlike Con, who also relied on some personal experience, never fulfilled the BOP, refusing to respond to logicrules' true statement that history should be taken in the context of particulars, and that a man/men should be judged by his character. Both sides displayed terrible conduct, with Con's "age" comment and Africaded's constant whining ("the fact that you believe we should only have three hours of Black, African-American, history is insulting...")
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 5 years ago
Buckethead31594
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate was created in an unorderly fashion. Although Pro provided bias information for his case, neither side provided any useful sources. Overall, I think Con did a nice job refuting Pro's arguments. However, Con should be more careful as to how he approaches his opponents.
Vote Placed by Kethen 5 years ago
Kethen
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Neither of you really had agreat arguement. Pro seemed to neglect quite abit of information. Pro also is bringing up racism which as a world we really need to get over it and Con tried arguing without the racism half. Con had poor conduct right at the beginning with the age comment.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
AfricadedlogicrulesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con completely hijacked the debate and strayed off topic while pro presented some good arguments about the importance of African-american culture in society. Con instead just focused on wordplay of the debate and as for the age reference that too was uncalled for.