The Instigator
angryduck
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Jifpop09
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Is America the new threat to liberalism?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Jifpop09
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/14/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 638 times Debate No: 45966
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

angryduck

Pro

Hello. This is my first post on this forum so apologies for any logistical errors.
I consider myself an ally of America. 9/11 reinforced that position. I live in London where terrorism is not as new as what happened in the Twin Towers. Has Americas response to Islam fanatics made itself wrong? It embraces torture now and can and does Invade other countries.
Americas right to defend itself is rightly non negotiable. What are they fighting for /defending is blurred now though , I sugest.
Jifpop09

Con

I accept and affirm that America is a haven for liberal ideals. My opponent can begin his case.
Debate Round No. 1
angryduck

Pro

I value the long alliance the U.K and the U.S.A have made. Its not something to be put aside lightly . We share a lot of common values . The American Constitution lays down firm aspirations about the rights of its citizens. The war in Iraq was instigated on the lie that there were weapons of mass destruction . Many people died.
Is that the behaviour of a liberal and tolerant Washington regime? Our own government , U.K, was complicit in this deceit also. My proposition is that the Americans have lost the moral compass.
Obamas rhetoric re a military Invasion of Syria was overruled by that great orator of "liberalism" Vladimir Putin. Not.
Jifpop09

Con

I believe that america is a haven for liberalism. It is a place where you are free to speak your mind, and protest freely. It is a place where no idea is too soonly disregarded as heresy. Such a place is surely going to become a haven for many ideals. Liberalism is among those. Northern and western America has always been a place where liberalism thrived. While we do have a lot of traditional conservatives within the country, every year new liberal laws take hold. We do not restrict citizens with nanny laws, which are popular in europe. We also advocate pretty much anything that does not directly harm another person. Does a place more liberal exist?

Rebuttals
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The war in Iraq was instigated on the lie that there were weapons of mass destruction . Many people died.
Is that the behaviour of a liberal and tolerant Washington regime? Our own government , U.K, was complicit in this deceit also. My proposition is that the Americans have lost the moral compass.

Not sure if this has anything to do with liberalism. As for the war, did not your country among others not participate? Yes, the campaign was led by the US, but we organized and implemented the invasion with many other nations. It was brought before the UN first and foremost. I will not argue that the war was right, but it was very unpopular with many liberals and democrats from the US.

Is that the behaviour of a liberal and tolerant Washington regime?

I assure you that America is not under the control of a regime. Despite popular conspiracy theories.


Obamas rhetoric re a military Invasion of Syria was overruled by that great orator of "liberalism" Vladimir Putin. Not.

Not sure what your saying here. You must be being sarcastic, because Vlad is not liberal in the slightest.
Debate Round No. 2
angryduck

Pro

My point re Putin is that Americas threats to Invade Syria were ended by Putins nobel peace prize winning Intervention [Irony not sarcasm]. I don't dispute that Americans still have free and open debate. 20 years ago, however, the open admission that people could be Imprisoned without charge and water boarded could never have happened.
Is State sanctioned torture a threat to liberal Ideas of tolerance and the right to live your life free of fear? I believe Americas behaviour has diminished itself in the eyes of its allies.
Jifpop09

Con

My point re Putin is that Americas threats to Invade Syria were ended by Putins nobel peace prize winning Intervention [Irony not sarcasm].

Gotcha.

20 years ago, however, the open admission that people could be Imprisoned without charge and water boarded could never have happened.

Yes, but that rule was a bit more complicated. It has to be during wartime, and the person must be an suspected criminal. It is sometimes vital to detain someone, when it becomes obvious they will be up to ill attempt. For example, we could not let someone highly suspicious of shooting up a bank, to commit that action. As for torture, I can assure you that torture is very unpopular in certain areas. As for waterboarding, it is probably one of the most humane ways to torture someone, and is mostly psychological.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...;


Is State sanctioned torture a threat to liberal Ideas of tolerance and the right to live your life free of fear?

No one is living in fear. Many of the people who were tortured were found to be a threat to national security. While I disagree of the effectiveness of torture, I can assure you that these people need to be detained and interrogated.

Debate Round No. 3
angryduck

Pro

I find myself agreeing with you. In times of war the States first role is to defend its citizens and human rights come second. Pragmatism. The game is changed now that Islamic rhetoric has thrown us all into an unending conflict. This "war" is unwinnable .
If truth is the first victim of war then Liberalism is the second. Perhaps America had no choice but to abandon the Idea that it can be both moral / liberal and has become reactionary.
Jifpop09

Con

I find myself agreeing with you. In times of war the States first role is to defend its citizens and human rights come second. Pragmatism. The game is changed now that Islamic rhetoric has thrown us all into an unending conflict. This "war" is unwinnable .

Practically a consession. I think your concerns are more geared towards anti war.

If truth is the first victim of war then Liberalism is the second. Perhaps America had no choice but to abandon the Idea that it can be both moral / liberal and has become reactionary.

Americans did not abandon the idea of moralism. The things that are most debated about are morals. More to peoples likings.

Debate Round No. 4
angryduck

Pro

angryduck forfeited this round.
Jifpop09

Con

Vote for me
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jifpop09 3 years ago
Jifpop09
They took down the page of my link.
Posted by Jifpop09 3 years ago
Jifpop09
Yes, I do live in America. I know personally that northern america is raging with liberal ideals. Look forward to my debate after Olympic bobsledding.
Posted by angryduck 3 years ago
angryduck
No problem Jiff. Are you across the pond?
Posted by Jifpop09 3 years ago
Jifpop09
Oh sorry, it says you don't.
Posted by Jifpop09 3 years ago
Jifpop09
Do you live in America? Just wondering.
Posted by angryduck 3 years ago
angryduck
Thanks Jiff. Im new to this debate forum. I look forward to crossing swords with you. Is America the new bad guy?
Posted by Jifpop09 3 years ago
Jifpop09
I will be arguing that America is a haven for liberalism. If that is what your wondering?
Posted by angryduck 3 years ago
angryduck
By liberalism I mean open and answerable government. America is in danger of loosing both.
Posted by Jifpop09 3 years ago
Jifpop09
This is not a forum.
Posted by InVinoVeritas 3 years ago
InVinoVeritas
Which "liberalism"?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
angryduckJifpop09Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: By ffing, Pro loses conduct and has effectively dropped every case. His's arguments weren't very good to begin with.