The Instigator
ImProbablyGoingToLose
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
ncheer
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

Is Athenian democracy a real form of democracy?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ncheer
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/30/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 522 times Debate No: 64219
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

ImProbablyGoingToLose

Con

No, i don't believe athenian democracy is a true form of democracy because only 12% of the athenian population is aloud to vote. Those who are aloud are stuck doing that, must for the rest of the time they are alive or are a member of the athenian empire. Those who aren't aloud to vote includes slaves, freed immigrants, and women! And even then, only men who have completed military training and are 21 years of age can vote. They have to be citizen of birth from both parents, and if they arent, they are decided at the age of 18, but if the judge says no, then they arent.
ncheer

Pro

I believe that the Athenians were a democracy because their laws give equal justice to everyone. Social class and poverty don't interfere with someone's merit.
Debate Round No. 1
ImProbablyGoingToLose

Con

The two leaders of the government, usually the war chiefs, decided that the people would be divided into 10 kingdoms, and each kingdom would send 50 people to be part of the Council of 500. They usually chose those people from social class, and not from intellect and experience. And even so, that Council, would gather every 2 months to vote out one person of that council to decide who was the most undemocratic out of the 500, and would exile that one person out of the empire for 10 years to, "understand how good they had it in that country." This constantly happened, and most of the time those people would end up dying before their time ended.
ncheer

Pro

The Athenians not only voted people into office, but voted one person a year out of office. This is proof that it is a democracy because the people voted and when there was someone in office the people didn't want, they could vote them out
Debate Round No. 2
ImProbablyGoingToLose

Con

In that case, they would be able to vote out a person they didn't like. It was done to create the idea that they could have their own decisions, but the people really did not. Every kingdom chose people that were wealthy and of high social class. They did not pick them for intellect and experience in government. When they voted people out of the country, they could have just voted them to return to their position as a citizen with the right to vote, and as an ex-council member, they could not be inducted back into the council again. They should not have been exiled in the first place, and for ten years? No. By our standards, this was an oligarchy because only male citizens ruled the population, excluding women, free foreingers, and slaves. Rule was excercised directly by the people, whereas democracy today means government by representatives of the people.
ncheer

Pro

The Athenians would meet and vote on whether anyone was becoming a threat to democracy. I don't think an oligarchy would do this. Also, the exile of voting people out of office did not involve any punitive measures; it was designed only to remove an individual from the political arena. and this was because the people decided who was or was not in office
Debate Round No. 3
ImProbablyGoingToLose

Con

Once a year the Athenians would meet and vote on a simple question: Is anyone becoming a threat to the democracy? If a simple majority voted yes, then they dispersed and reassembled two months later. They brought with them their fragments of pottery, on which they'd scratched the name of the person they thought represented a threat. The man with the most votes lost, and he was exiled for 10 years. This was thought to calm any anti-democratic leanings he might have. In other words, the Athenians not only voted people into office, but they had a regular procedure for voting one person per year out of office. It was an option which could be excercised but did not have to be. If a leading states man is powerful enough and has the votes, ostracism is a great way to eliminate a weaker but annoying rival. In 417BC, when the outcome was uncertain, the two top dogs... ganged up on Hyperbolos, a hapless number three. This was such an obvious misuse of the system that the Athenians never used it again.
ncheer

Pro

ncheer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
ImProbablyGoingToLose

Con

ImProbablyGoingToLose forfeited this round.
ncheer

Pro

ncheer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
ImProbablyGoingToLosencheerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Con. Pro forfeited multiple rounds whereas Con only forfeited one. Arguments - Pro showed that Athenian democracy still upheld the fundamental values of democracy by allowing citizens to vote and participate in the affairs of the government. Their punishment or exile is beneficial for Pro's side because it again proves that democratic values were upheld. Furthermore, Con never even defined *real* democracy, thus, going off of face-value, Pro clearly wins.