Is Batman a Superhero?
Debate Rounds (4)
I consider Batman to be a superhero based on the fact that he has saved the world, perhaps not on the same level as the rest of the Justice League or the Avengers, but certainly to a degree. And also that he has defeated Superman in the past, leading one to think that if anyone can beat Superman, you would have to be a Superhero or a Super Villain...
I will outline my debate in the next round in response more clearly...
I look forward to a challenge.
1 Round: Acceptance
2 Round: Opening Arguments
3 Round: Rebuttal
Final Round: Closing argument
2 Round: Opening Arguments
3 Round: Rebuttal
Final Round: Closing argument
As you say.
As my opening statement may I say this is an oppurtunity for me to find out the popular consensus on the matter as well as the true condition of Batman in the 'Superhero' market.
My debate however is that Batman is indeed a Superhero. Although he is not in possession of any particularly 'super' ability which would label him a Superhero, he is indeed a Super Man. He is a world hero, renown for his work as a man of the people.
He has saved the world and could be argued he does indeed possess super abilities that are not in the same vain as the classic super heroes. He has an amazing constitution, he can recover from some of the most devasting injuries including a back break. He is an amazing fighter. The worlds greatest detective bordering on a super ability.
The fact that he is a man should take nothing away from the fact that he is indeed a Super Hero. His reliance on gadgets and technology is true, but he himself still needs to use them correctly and better than any other person in the world, bordering on a super ability. His mind is his super power I guess as well. The fact he can work out any logical problem and to thwart the kind of villains he has and defeat the kind of people he has (His notable victory over Superman) all lend favourably to the Super Hero mythos.
1. Batman is like the United States, he does things for his own benefit. For example, Whenever Batman does save the world or save Gotham City he is doing his own benefits in it. He is not going to go out and save some helpless puppy trapped in a tree because that doesn't do much for him.
2. He is also not a super hero because he has also been doing things that do not benefit the people of the world and Gotham City. This has happened on many accounts, when he builds different machines or lets a person go even if he has beaten them.
3. In the new movie he fights Bane. One of the most iconic Batman Villains. Bane poses a new threat to Gotham because he has trained and been raised in the very dark where Batman is put. Coming back to Gotham he does not do this only for Gothams benefit but also for his revenge upon losing in the first time.
All and all Batman is a good person but not a "Super Hero".
Sources: Me ;D
What benefit would he have from going out and beating the Joker or from stopping him blowing up Gotham? Bruce Wayne is an insanely rich man, meaning he could easily move away and leave all the problems to the police. There is no reason for Batman other than those posed in his backstory. He hates crime to an almost obssessive capacity due to his childhood and has vowed to defend Gotham/world... this is not for his own benefit but for the safety of others who he does not want to suffer the same injustice. I agree with you in principle that there was an underlying tone in the recent Dark Knight Rises of revenge... but his initial attempt at fighting Bane was born from his persistance in protecting Gotham.
Batman is without a doubt a wonderful Super Hero. He is a hero of the people who has done some 'super' things and achieved 'super' feats. He defeats Bane with an element of revenge agreed, but in most cases he is fighting for the safety of Gotham. It could be argued he would never save a helpless puppy because men in the police or fire services can easily do that. He tackles the super jobs, the only person who can stop the super villians.
Hence he is a superhero. He does the things no man is truly capable of.
He is like James Bond. He does it because it is his duty almost. He does not have to save the people there and get the girl. He does it so that he can continue to figure out the mysteries of his past. He has had a dark child hood like James Bond. He was born into wealth, and his parents were killed. Arguably he does these things because there is a darkness inside of him that he is trying to suppress. With the fighting of the villains he is just doing this because it is his "Job" and because he is trying to maintain the anger within himself.
Also, Batman does not fight people that could be considered "Villains". For example, Batman does not decide to fight the top crime bosses in Gotham that you hear about every so often in the comics and the movies. There is a large crime syndicate that is in the city of Gotham and Batman only decides to fight the people in the crime syndicate that have the abilities, like Mr.Freeze. Batman does fight the Joker who does not have "super powers" however the Joker is one of the syndicates most important members and basically leads an entire army of men. Other than the select few he does not fight other people who are the masterminds behind the syndicate, even whom the police cannot catch. If Batman was a true super hero why would he not stop those people as well.
My opponent also states to me that he does fight for the well being of the city of Gotham and that is because he lives there and his whole childhood (Which he is still trying to figure out) is there.
I have a couple of questions for my opponent about why he is considered a "superhero"
1. If Batman is truly a superhero why does he not fight the criminal masterminds behind the crime syndicate that is in Gotham?
2. If he is truly the hero in everyone's hearts why has he allowed countless deaths?
Good luck to my opponent, and my you final rebuttal and closing argument be very good.
Batman movies and comics as well.
I hope that whatever the outcome of this debate, it has been as interesting for you as it has for me.
I will firstly answer your questions at the end of your response.
1. Batman is, and always has been, a man. And as one of the few 'real man' superheroes, he is limited by the same conditions of all humans. That being sleep etc. He is also a symbol. A symbol of what real men can do. He is in an inspiration for man to do something better with themselves and this stems right down to the police force of Gotham and Commissioner Gordon. This is why Gordon is as prominent as he is, due to the fact that he couldn't have done the job alone, but with the intervention and inspiration of Batman, he does do the job.
Also in response, we have no qualms of labelling Superman a superhero... yet when has Superman ever tackled the 'true crime' in the world?
2. In response to this, you are almost saying that Batman is a deity. Why has Batman allowed this to happen is almost like a claim of people who blame God for the loss of someone. Batman is indeed a superhero, but not a single deity who can save the world from everything. Are we to assume by this logic, that everyone is under the care and grace of Batman? That Batman is the sole control of life and death in Gotham? No of course not. He fights the villains of this world. But to become a villain, one must do awful things. Batman cannot and never has had the ability (Nor has any superhero to knowledge) read peoples futures and determine that someone is going to do something bad like murder of cause the death of people.
To say that Batman is like James Bond is an interesting theory. James Bond is indeed a character with a dark past. However, he is in a job. He was hired by his country and is sent out to duty in service of his country. He is paid a wage. He is granted holidays.
Being Batman is not a 'job' as you put it. He wasn't hired. He doesn't get paid for it. And he isn't told what to do. At most, you could class it as a hobby. You can argue he is trying to do it to suppress the anger within himself though within his pathos and past, one would have to argue he blames crime for the death of his parents, rather than trying to tame an anger.
It is never his 'job' to fight villains either. As The Dark Knight movie brilliantly portrays, the Batman is a symbol. Like I have stated above in response to your questions. Batman is a symbol of what all men can do or become. He is a symbol of crime fighting, an inspiration. He is the force or sense of duty that Gotham needed to fight the villains themselves. Batman is the symbol that all humans should follow in wanting to rid Gotham of crime. It is not his job to do it, but ours. Batman is an ideology... perhaps a belief. A symbol of belief which would make good men stand against the bad. Hence why Batman's job was done at the end of the Dark Knight and he was no longer needed until the rise of Bane...
Hence the debate should be brought back to its core for my final statement. I fear this debate has spiralled into why Batman does what he does, rather than if he is a Superhero.
Batman is a superhero. He is a symbol of the good in which we have in ourselves. He is not responsible for all things that happen. He cannot stop everything, nor can any Superhero otherwise we wouldn't need them would we? But there are some opponents which man cannot stop. And for that they need their superhero, their ultimate trump card and the people of Gotham rely on Batman, their superhero. Much like Metropolis relies on its hero Superman.
The superheroes fight the wars that normal man cannot do.
If we reference the movie The Dark Knight Rises, nobody could beat Bane.
Not one could stand against him.
Apart from Batman.
The Superhero of Gotham.
I thank my opponent for the debate, as it was most educational and wish them well, regardless of outcome, in further debates.
Sources : Batman Movies. Comics. DC Writings.
BillyTheKids forfeited this round.
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