The Instigator
GOPLOVER
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Lexus
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points

Is Bernie sander good or bad

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Lexus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/19/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 701 times Debate No: 78817
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

GOPLOVER

Con

Battle it out
Lexus

Pro

I accept with the assumption that con is saying that Sanders is bad; con has a negative connotation with it as well does bad.
I'll be defending Bernie Sanders from any incoming attacks from my opponent, have fun and good luck
Debate Round No. 1
GOPLOVER

Con

Left would probably look at me like I"m crazy for saying this, but I think Bernie Sanders is a major disappointment as a Senator. I don"t mean to suggest he"s a bad Senator, on the same level as, say, Joe Lieberman, from whom I doubt many progressives expected good things. I hate Lieberman as much as anyone else, but it"s not exactly shocking when he"s an +%}}#%^^ Sanders, on the other hand, is someone for whom I had high hopes, and it therefore hurts to watch him fall short, as he did most recently in the healthcare debate.

It"sown even far from Vermont. That"s why Robert Greenwald gave him a web series, for instance. I noticed this most recently on my trip to back home to Illinois over winter break, when I visited my friends in the Peoria Area Peace Network. Every time his name came up, half the room would gush over him. At one point, I would"ve done it too. I agreed with (and still agree with) his positions and thought it was awesome having a socialist in Congress. As a supporter of third-party and independent candidates I liked that Sanders was an Independent and would potentially be less beholden to the Democratic leadership that so successfully corrals other progressives.

And yet I"m increasingly frustrated with Sanders. He seems more concerned with maintaining cordial relations with the Democratic Party than with supporting progressive policies. Like most progressives in Congress, he talks a good game but doesn"t really follow through on it.

This was something I first noticed in 2008 with his vocal support for Obama. I thought it was odd that Sanders was coming out so strongly for one of the primary backers of the Wall Street bailouts, of which Sanders was one of the primary opponents. And in fact I have yet to see any criticism from Sanders directly targeting Obama on that or any other issue. Instead, he frequently goes out of his way to avoid criticizing Democrats, or pulls his punches with them.

For instance, take this article by Sanders in The Nation. I more or less agree with the recommendations in the article, but notice who Sanders blames things on: the Republicans. The problem with the Democrats, he says, is that they "have absurdly continued to stumble along the path of "bipartisanship" at exactly the same time the Republicans have waged the most vigorous partisan and obstructionist strategy in recent history." In this and other public statements, he isn"t afraid to mount a frontal assault on the GOP, but when it comes to the Dems the problems get blamed on someone else: Wall Street, lobbyists, Republican obstructionism, and so on.

I question how much of Sanders" support for Obama and the Dems is calculation versus what he really believes. If he were more hostile to the Dems, it would probably cost him a lot of support from the progressive movement; indeed, his coziness with the Dems is probably a necessary component of his hero status with the movement, as opposed to the outcast status of someone like Ralph Nader.

Also, it"s pretty much an open secret that Sanders has an unofficial deal going with the Democratic Party: he doesn"t overtly antagonize them, and they don"t run anyone against him. Nader discussed this issue in Crashing the Party, his memoir of his 2000 campaign. Sanders had agreed to introduce Nader at a campaign stop in Montpelier (although he wouldn"t give an endorsement). However, Nader also invited Anthony Pollina, then the Progressive Party candidate for governor, to speak at the event. Sanders apparently wasn"t happy about this. From the book:

When I arrived at the bustling high school auditorium, with its tables, volunteers, and incoming
Lexus

Pro

Con has not provided a coherent argument that fulfills their part of the burden of proof - to prove that Senator Sanders is "bad". They (well, someone else, but I will get into that) have made some remarks about how he is disappointing, and maybe he is - but I ask of you, is it objectively "bad" to be a bit disappointing in the world of politics, which we all know is about compromising? Is it bad to not get everything you strive for just because you must work with other people that are different political ideologies? Of course not, that is to be expected of anyone with a non-centrist view in the current political system! This doesn't make him bad; it makes him respectable in that he is able to make some compromises in order to get what is important into law.

I'd also like to note that my opponent copied their entire "argument" from this source [1], which according to DDO procedure, is at least a breach of reasonable conduct. Please review this action from my opponent and judge accordingly.

[1]. https://bullshitphilosophy.wordpress.com...;
Debate Round No. 2
GOPLOVER

Con

GOPLOVER forfeited this round.
Lexus

Pro

I am saddened to see another forfeiture on this website. Please vote pro.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Scyrone// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Pro. Reasons for voting decision: It's obvious who won from the debate.

[*Reason for removal*] Clear vote bomb. The voter doesn't explain any of his point allocations.
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Posted by Lexus 1 year ago
Lexus
I think I get that reference
Posted by Teaparty1 1 year ago
Teaparty1
Maybe Con is Kevin.
Posted by Sarra 1 year ago
Sarra
holy cow. nice catch tstor
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
GOPLOVERLexusTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Sarra 1 year ago
Sarra
GOPLOVERLexusTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I reread the area around +%}}#%^^ about 4 times trying to understand Con - what 8 letter long word is a curse word? was con calling Sanders a curse word? or was he calling Lieberman it? It"sown even far from - what does this mean? Plagiarism + Forfeit
Vote Placed by tejretics 1 year ago
tejretics
GOPLOVERLexusTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: (1) Sources. Con plagiarizes the entirety of their argument, without using appropriate quotes or presenting an appropriate citation. (2) Conduct. Con forfeited a round.