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Is Catholicism a Force For Good in The World?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/19/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 690 times Debate No: 31448
Debate Rounds (4)
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The Debate formate is this:
Round 1: Statement of position.
Round 2: First Arguments
Round 3: Counters (May use new arguments if necessary)
Round 4: Conclusion

I will take the view of Roman Catholicism is NOT a force for good.


Debate Round No. 1


The Catholic Church is not a force for good in the world.

The Catholic view is Jesus came to save humanity, by humanity I mean "Catholics" or Christians, everyone else goes to hell eternally and they will go to heaven.

After religious persecutions in the Holy Roman Empire, Constantine put out the Edict of Milan allowing Christians to freely practice religion. Unfortunately it became so popular it overcame Paganism and became the official religion of the Empire. Once on the top, they banned all other religions. The Church began to attack Jerusalem, the Crusades, in which countless amounts of people died, including civilians and children. The Catholic Church began to take on anyone who even looked at them funny. The most famous was with Galileo over proof of the Copernican model of a heliocentric universe (The idea the earth isn't the center of the universe). The Church threatened to execute Galileo. Once Galileo pulled back his statements the Church declared victory.

Argument 1: The Church caused religious intolerance and wars killing many men, women and children.

The more harmful things has been in recent years.

The Church has had countless amounts of molestations, such as Father Oliver O'Grady, which is sickening considering it appears the Church actually tried to dismiss these claims of molestation. Members of this organization have ruined many lives of innocent, young children. I don't care if you're the offspring of Hitler and Stalin and want to destroy the world, you don't deserve to be raped/molested, especially as a young child. With the database of Publicly Accused Priests of Child Molestation [1] it is sorted by the priests last name:
A: 96 B: 340 C: 297 D: 232 E: 57 F: 172 G: 211 H: 206 I: 13 J: 60 K: 170 L: 188 M: 442 N: 58 O: 115 P: 190 Q: 5 R: 196 S: 359 T: 108 U: 25 V: 61 W: 150 X:1 Y: 6 Z: 17
That gives us a grand total of: 3,755 cases of child molestation, in America alone.
Argument 2: No organization that has this amount of child molestation charges, including many being attempted at to cover up, should be considered a force of good.

The Church has also been a harmful and negative organization against humanity. Their ignorant and intolerable views on homosexuality and denying equal rights is sickening. They say, we accept anybody, but not you, you cannot join our church because you're a faggot. Reverend Jerry Falwell, founder of Liberty University said: "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuality; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." Pat Roberson, founder of the Christian Coalition, he said "[Homosexuals] want to come into our churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the faces of ministers... [Planned Parenthood] is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism- everything the Bible condemns." Pat also has views about women too, "I know this is painful for you ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife and that's the way it is, period." Gary Potter, President of Catholic for Christian Political Action said: "When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic church, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After Christianity takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."
[1] 3: The Church condemns and puts down human beings and fights to keep them from getting equal rights.

"The questions are what does a decent society do with people who hurt themselves because they're human? Who smoke too much, who drink too much, who buy carelessly and don't have safe sex. I think the answer is a decent society doesn't go and pasture people out and leave them out alone to die because they've done something human."
-How To Survive a Plague


"The catholic view is that Catholics/Christians go to heaven while everyone else's goes to hell" there is no problem with that statement, if you were god would let people into heaven who denies your existence? Not seeing anything wrong with that.

Catholicism is simply the belief in god (Jesus), the beliefs, doctrines and rituals of the Catholic Church. The actions of holy Rome came over greed and false beliefs that god told them to do there actions. But Catholicism is not the blame for this, the blame should go on how they took it to extreme. Going to war with Jerusalem could be considered wrong or right. Because both sides thought they were doing the right thing. The church should have considered som of the ideas that people had but again that does not make Catholics immoral.

1." The church caused religious intolerance and wars killing many men and children"
Again both sides were fighting for god (in dispute wether that gods real or not) and really thought they were fighting for an holy cause. Catholicism is not the blame for this but the greed inside of there own hearts and brains.

The molestation argument:

The catholic church does not want the priests/holy men to have sex. Thats all the the catholic church says you have to do. Catholicism is not the blame for molestation, in fact catholicism has nothing to do with that. For example lets say there is a rule book, Its says not to feed the dog more then twice a day. But many people break this rule not because the rule is bad but because it fits there own interests. Another example would be if a man ran for president as a republican but once he gets into office he acts more as a democrat. When his term is over he realizes he really screwed up the economy, does that make the republican party a bad party? Catholicism outlaws the priests sexual activities but some priests continue to break the rules, does that make catholicism wrong?

Argument: 3

Equal rights on topics like gay marriage is completely debatable and I don"t know about you but I don't want to get into that. So instead I will argue, gay marriage has been considered wrong for about 5000 years until modern society. Thats because homosexuality is a disorder. Back in the times it was wrong to have sex with different people, so instead people reproduced with the one they love. Now obviously homosexuals can not reproduce so were homosexuals ever meant to be together? Second someones political stance does not mean it goes along with his/her religion. There are plenty of people who are against gay marriage who are not christians.Third catholicism does not comment on gay marriage, but says being gay was against gods will. Jesus himself said to love unconditionally so he arguably may or may not support gay marriage.

My arguments {why catholicism is good.}

1. Teaches people Morals: The bible is a moral guide and helps people discover what is wrong and/or is right. You yourself may not agree with some of the so called "morals" But the bible helps people choose who they are and usually in to a respectable young man or women.

2. Faith. Now i know a lot of people on this website [especially atheists] are against faith. But faith keeps a person feeling good about themselves and have confidence in things they need to work hard for. [If u haven't truly experienced it, i don't know what else to tell you]

3. He could truly be god: Now i know this is a big claim but there is a CHANCE that jesus is truly god. and if he is then catholics will be saved from hell. I would be willing to expand on it, if my opponent thinks otherwise.

Thanks for the debate and your argument. sorry for taking so long myself.
Debate Round No. 2


There is no problem with that statement, if you were god would you let people into heaven who denies your existence? Not seeing anything wrong with that." Don't see anything wrong with that? So you're saying you don't see anything wrong with the fact that you deny the existence of that god, you deserve ETERNAL punishment of being burned. No person who hasn't been poisoned by religion would think this is okay.

1. If a terrorist organization decides to launch terrorist attacks to your country, as long as they thought they were doing good it doesn't make them immoral? As long as they thought they were fighting for a holy cause, it doesn't matter about the countless amounts of lives that were lost and taken.
2. If the government makes a law saying "Don't kill" and the population is now mostly murderers, the government isn't obviously doing it's job. The Vatican needs to step in and take charge and limit the amount of child molestation, which they aren't doing. Just look at Father Oliver O'Grady, a SICKENING story in which the Church attempted to cover it up. After every child molestation case, the Vatican just moved him to a new church in another town.
3. You have to prove that homosexuality is a disorder first off. Secondly, can a woman who's not fertile reproduce? No, so is she not meant to be with anyone? The Church does comment on gay marriage, yet they say it's against god's will and the new Pope made multiple comments on it.
Your Arguments

1. Morality: The bible is a source of morality? The Old Testament is is full of ritual sacrifice: Judges 11:29-40, Joshua 7:15, Ezekiel 21:33-37, Deuteronomy 13:13-19. Rape: Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Deuteronomy 22:23-24, 2 Samuel 12:11-13, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, Exodus 21:7-11, Zechariah 14:1-2. Murder: Exodus 22:13, Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 20:27, Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9 and 20:20, Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 22:19, 2 Chronicles 15:12-13, Zechariah 13:3, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Romans 1:24-32. That's just a slight few for murder. Slavery: Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:20-21, Ephesians 6:5, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Luke 12:47-48.
No morality I know consists of Rape, murder and ritual sacrifice. Also, Jesus' message is immoral. I can take your punishments for you, I can pay for you to not have to do your punishments, hell if I like you enough, I can even go to jail for you, but what I can't do is take away your responsibility. It is immoral to say whatever you did, you are no longer responsible for. No moral person would think that's okay. God requires compulsory love and compulsory fear. It is not right to teach morals to children by using the fear of hell or eternal punishment. And it is specifically NOT moral to teach, REGARDLESS, that it is okay to burn someone in an endless pit of fire ETERNALLY.
2. Faith is a poison. It's believing in something blindly and without evidence. What do you think reality is? Everything we know in science and technology is because we have tested and performed experiments and actually proved and provided evidence for it. But, that's the thing about Christianity, it attacks humans on the deepest levels possible. Christianity says you and I would not know a single good thought or bad thought without the religion and we couldn't be able to go on without it. We know this is untrue, people throughout the years before Christianity and Judaism have survived without this faith. We also know that the morality thing is untrue, because we, as a species, would not have survived and evolved without morality. Besides, drugs make a person feel good about themselves, should that be okay too?
3. Jesus could be god? Sure, he could be, just like there could be an invisible pink unicorn next to me now, or Zeus or Baal are all gods. What you're implying is Pascal's Wager which is not only the most coward and unintellectually honest thing ever, but it doesn't fit to Christianity. God can convict you of thought crime, therefore, god would know if you're just saying you're that religion just to avoid punishment. Besides, is this what it's come down to, to your all loving god? To have to lie to yourself your whole life to avoid being eternally burned by him? I don't know about you, but if I saw a man light his own child on fire, I would not worship him and god is no exception.


wolfman4711 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


My conclusion statement: What's the problem with Catholicism?
It's simple, it requires compulsory love and compulsory fear. You have to love someone, you also have to fear them. This is no way to teach morals, despite to Pros belief. Secondly, it is immoral and not correct to resolve anyone of their sin or actions. It's, in itself, an immoral proposition to think that it is okay to resolve someone of their responsibilities of their actions.
Catholicism attacks us at our deepest cores as a human. It says you wouldn't know a right action from a wrong actions or a right thought from a good thought without the permission of a celestial dictatorship, who supervises our every waking moment, which in itself is the definition of totalitarianism, and will continue to judge us, persecute us and supervise us EVEN after we're dead. You're told that if you applaud a human sacrifice, a gruesome and bloody one, that took place before you were born, to fulfill a prophecy you didn't have a say in, your responsibilities will be removed from you but if you don't you will be sentenced to eternal flames, the rest of your life in pain. It's also immoral to children and uneducated people that if they believe this nonsense, the laws of nature will be suspended in your favor. It's nonsense and it is NOT moral to lie to children and uneducated people.
With afterlife, even in the raped filled, genocide and bloody Old Testament, the concept of afterlife wasn't there. Even after you watched your family get raped and your tribe get slaughtered because god favored the attacking tribe and you happened to fall on your sword, that's it. The Earth covers you, you were just unlucky to be on the side against god. But that's the end. Meek and mild, humble Jesus comes along and sells you No, if you don't make the right worship, you'll be sentenced to to burn forever. One of the most INHUMANE and vile things preached throughout history, that has ruined the piece of mind of people everywhere who were told this by vicious preachers who say this and teach this in the name of this ghastly religion.
I erg you to vote Con on this debate. With everything being said, I rest my case with a quote:
"Name me a moral action committed by a believer, or moral statement or ethical one, that could not be done by a nonreligious person. I've never had an answer to this. Now name me a immoral act or vile statement made by a religious person. Not a single person needs to hesitate for a single second."
-Christopher Hitchens


I would like to thank con for the debate but I must concede for my absence in the last round. Vote con!!
Debate Round No. 4
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