The Instigator
Pro (for)
5 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
4 Points

Is Communism a Goos Idea?

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after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/10/2013 Category: Economics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,132 times Debate No: 38756
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)




First round for acceptance; just so you know I'm playing the devil's advocate.

Communism is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order. This movement, in its Marxist"Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by communist parties) and the "Western world" (countries with capitalist economies).


Hello Con, I accept this debate. I will wait for your first argument to be made.
Debate Round No. 1


Communism is one of those most mindblowing, divine ideas mankind has ever stumbled upon. It is my understanding that communism is a form of society that basically eliminates all social status, currency, state, and such. Think of all the problems this could solve.
Here are my arguments supporting communism:
1. Prejudice
A few major problems right now are as follows:
Sexism, racism, and homophobia.
Communism can put an end to these, and if not, cut them off partially. These same ideas are overturning capitalism to me way for communism. People who are discriminated against are fighting back, and making headway now.

2) The Original Idea
Communism, in its purest form (the one described originally by Karl Marx, and has never been practised) is a classless society, a perfect haven. Of course, something like this society is impossible to build right away, so countries instead use a sort of transitional government called socialism. Communism has only been practiced for about 90 years so of course no one has reached the pure form utopia.

3) Benefiting the Society
Communism is basically a better version of Mohism. It's like loving everyone. Why risk $100 for $1 when you can risk $1 for $100? What this mean is:
Why would you risk the betterment of 100 for your betterment, when it would benefit you more to risk your betterment for the betterment of 100?
Now imagine everyone doing that. Everyone working to better everyone else. Although it sounds impossible, it's worth pursuing. And by working to better others' lives, you better your own.

4) Crimes
In a society where everyone works to benefit others, crimes are generally not going to happen. There isn't really a reason to hate anybody, and to be honest, you won't gain anything from it such as an elevated status or fame or whatever it is that you're after, because everybody is equal.

5) Capitalism
At its root, capitalism is an economic system based on three things: wage labor (working for a wage), private ownership or control of the means of production (things like factories, machinery, farms, and offices), and production for exchange and profit. Writer Mark Fisher noted that it is "easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism" and indeed this is true. Capitalism stands in the way of communism, but this isn't much of a problem. Capitalism will pass. It has been around for some 200 years. Imagine the existence of man, as 24 hours, and then capitalism will be about 2 minutes. As we know, nothing lasts forever and capitalism is bound to fall sooner or later.
Workers in car factories in the UK and US, for example, took militant industrial action for years to win good wages and conditions, so employers shut down plants and moved them to places like Brazil and Korea. Where the same thing happened again so they moved again to China, India etc. However, now, new places for capital to move are running out. And workers in the most low-wage economies like China, Vietnam and Bangladesh are fighting back and starting to win. Even now despite massive technological and production increases, we continue to work longer and longer hours. And the annual income of the world's 100 richest people alone would be enough to end extreme poverty worldwide. And nearly 1 billion people go hungry while half of the world's food is wasted.
To extend on this a little bit, capitalism ONLY works because people are selfish, greedy, and ambitious. A lot of people support capitalism because you can rise to the top at any point, and it is more of a meritocracy. But communism is for the common good! Forget worldly wealth, fame, and all of that. Think about the welfare of the entire human population. Then you will realise that communism IS a better idea for the society, and benefits everyone much more, mainly because there are no winners and losers.

6) Legitimacy
Right now, governments and politicians are somewhat corrupt. There is absolutely NO room for corruption in a communistic society. Everyone is equal and helping each other out. If someone is corrupt, bye bye. You're out of OUR society. I emphasize the word 'OUR' because in a communistic setting, everyone is working for the better of the whole, and if you're not contributing, then you're also not worth it. It's simply not fair to have the others work to better your life and you not contribute or make a bad impact upon society.

That's it for now :D Good luck!
Communism rules! :P


Thank you for the quick response Pro, I will try my best not to fall behind.

I believe that communism is bad for several reasons, however I would like to point out few arguments you have made.

"In a society where everyone works to benefit others, crimes are generally not going to happen. There isn't really a reason to hate anybody, and to be honest, you won't gain anything from it such as an elevated status or fame or whatever it is that you're after, because everybody is equal."

You have made this point in your forth argument about crimes. Crimes don't happen for the elevated status or the fame a person gets after committing a crime. Just because people are equal, doesn't mean that crimes are not going to happen. Crimes are committed by desires (the psychological problems) a person is faced upon.

In your sixth point about the legitimacy, you claimed that:
"Right now, governments and politicians are somewhat corrupt. There is absolutely NO room for corruption in a communistic society."

Take North Korea for example, North Korea is a country that practices communism. As you have pointed out that no communistic society is corrupt, you would imagine that North Korea is a country with a bright future. However statistics prove that this is wrong. 32% of North Korea's population is under-nourished with 2% of infant mortality rate. Infant mortality rate indicates infants below the age of 5 surviving, and to see that only 2% lives over the age of 5 is just shocking. This proves that even the communist countries such as North Korea is corrupt.

Now, I have stated that communism is bad for several reasons.

Firstly, USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, more commonly known as Russia nowadays) tried communism but the communist party fell in the 1980's when Mikhail Gorbachev became the leader. One of the main problems that led to USSR's communism to fail was the people's greed. It's true that communism isn't the worst idea and looks good on paper, but it is impractical due to the people and their greed, and when it's put into practice, it's repressive.

All your freedom would be taken away from you if communism starts to be practiced. There will be no freedom of speech, no religion, and nobody will be rewarded for the hard work they do for the country which brings me to the next point. If everybody is treated the same, gets the same amount of pay, incentives (higher pay) which are necessary to give people the motivation the need to work hard in a difficult job will be reduced. For example, as in Communist State, people get the same amount of share, doctors won't be as hardworking as they used to be. This will occur in every occupations out there and lead to a massive failure in the country.

I end my argument here, and I look forward to your criticism on the points I have made.


So sorry if I sounded rude, it's just the way I speak and type. :/
Debate Round No. 2


Sorry, I was camping and I just got back so I didn't have a chance to reply earlier.

North Korea-As I stated earlier, it does not take a couple years to switch to communism! This is a huge project that could take decades to complete! Communism doesn't just show up over night!

Now, what we are potentially debating here is if communism is better than capitalism. You say that people won't have motivation. Well, the motivation is helping the others in society! When they help the others in society prosper, they also prosper. We can compare it to investment. You contribute to the society, society pays you back. Capitalism is basically in the interest of yourself, and you can become powerful and rich and happy based on merit. In communism, everyone wins. Even the people without talent or brains win.

The point of communism isn't freedom. It's having everyone work to help each other and benefit society so that everyone can live in comfort. In this case, there is not reason for corruption of crime if everybody is equal and living in comfort.

Haha-'look forward to your criticism on the points I have made.'

Thanks. I rest my case. Good job! :)


That's alright, I'm glad that you are back.

The first Korean communist party (Korean People's Socialist Party) was founded in June 28th 1918, but this was before the Korean War, so we shouldn't take this into account as Korea wasn't divided then. On October 13th, 1945, the North Korea Bureau of the Communist Party of Korea was established. 2013-1945 brings us to 68 years. 68 years of communism in North Korea yet brings shocking statistics which indicates that communism isn't working for North Korea.

Yes, the idea of communism indeed sounds good, but as I have mentioned above, people's greed makes it impractical. You have mentioned:

"the motivation is helping the others in society! When they help the others in society prosper, they also prosper."

Let's say you were a doctor in a country that practices communism. You are working hard for your country/society and there are unemployed just waiting for their money to come. Sure, it sounds good, but would you feel good about it? Would you feel good about you working hard and getting the same pay as the unemployed?

No matter the outcome of this debate, I loved this debate and thank you for instigating. I hope to debate with you again in the future.

Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by shakeabonbon 4 years ago
I also agree with the con. Greed exists in each of us and I personally think who say otherwise would be a hypocrite (I apologize if I sound a bit too cynical and ignorant). I think one problem in communism is the "everyone is equal" aspect of it; we are different and we need our differences to compare and separate ourselves from the others - I hate to say it, but at the end of the day, most of us do care about the differences in financial conditions of people surrounding us.
I also would like to point out that I think proposers of communism (no offense to PRO) tend to concentrate a little bit too much on the outcome of communism - on how it will work and benefit everyone, instead on how we actually GET to communism. Sure, you can argue that socialism is the first step toward communism; however, is there any certainty that we would actually reach the utopia promised by communism? We do not know how long does it take, or how much resources will be enough in order for socialism to transform into communism. Communism has been around for a while, mainly on the papers, yet I believe it is still missing in the reality.
I live in a socialist country; thus, I want to believe in communism so I can be proud that my ancestors had made the right choice. However, from an objective point of view, between the uncertain utopia in which everybody wins and a bit more certain world in which losers exist but so do winners, I prefer the latter. I also would like to point out that very few nations are currently follow the orthodox socialism-communism road, instead I think they like to mix it up with other forms of ideals. I think that, at least, in its vanilla form, communism is doomed to fail.
Please feel free to bash me if you think I am wrong or my point is too opinionated. I have just joined in this intellectual community and I still have much to learn. Thanks. Great debate, guys.
Posted by KroneckerDelta 4 years ago
The problem with North Korea, China, the USSR, and also, I believe, the Khmer Rouge, is that they were all totalitarian forms of government. I'm less sure of China and the Khmer Rouge, but the USSR and North Korea are no where near communism. You cannot have a dictator and call this communism. Right away the dictator and his cronies are already put above everyone else and thus it's not "communal" in any sense of the word. Rather it is an oppressive state which dictates everything its citizens are allowed and not allowed to do (it's a totalitarian state). Point in fact when Stalin came into power he quickly had all of the true communists killed or sent to Siberia.

North Korea and the USSR would be better categorized as either a autocracy or oligarchy. Stalin and Kim Jong-un act a the autocrat with absolute power. In the case of post-Stalin USSR the premier and KGB acted as the governing body (so probably closer to an oligarchy there).

True communism would, by necessity, have to look more like a democracy (in fact I think a democracy is a very real step towards true communism). But the problem is that in the common vernacular we now associate capitalism with democracy and communism with autocracies (or totalitarianism).
Posted by Joesjsu 4 years ago
You stated North Korea as an example of a con for communism. i have a far better example: the Khmer Rouge (The Red Cambodians). In the 1970s they gained control of Cambodia by way of revolution. They imposed an true communist society. Shortly after this, they proceeded to murder anyone and everyone who displayed any amount of individuality. After all was said and done, 2.2 million people lost their lives (half were tortured and murdered in death camps).

Also, as a further example to the USSR. Stalin, under communism, is known to be linked for more deaths than Hitler under communist rule (34-49 million deaths).
Posted by Masturdurbator 4 years ago
Hi guys. I am a new guy to this site and this is basically the first forum I have come to. I have no idea how to even participate in a debate at this point so I will just post my 5 pence worth over here. That said, I am not sure if communism is a "goos" idea, but I feel it might be a "good" idea. So much so that I feel we should rather be arguing or examining the underlying reasons behind its failure. I perceive the main flaw with the capitalist system is that it creates massive social and economic rifts to such a degree that it infringes on the same human rights the system itself claims to uphold. Personally I find it a far more bizarre way of going about things. Unfortunately as a lowly common middle class man in a hierarchical setup, I get zero say in what systems are in place.
Posted by astronautlevel 4 years ago
Interesting debate! I personally agree with con, but the debate will still be fun to watch.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Jacob_Bauman 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: I realize both arguments are very well conducted, but in the end I'm going with pro. Thank you for a great debate
Vote Placed by KroneckerDelta 4 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro's arguments were too simplistic and hypothetical. Also Pro should NEVER concede that there have been any examples of communism in history. Con uses the example of North Korea which is labeled as communism and Pro appears to accept that label. Pro's only argument against the obviously horrible conditions in North Korea is that they need more time and I don't buy this argument for a second (and neither did Con). Pro presents hypotheticals on why communism could be good, but Con gives rebuttals as to why communism may not meet these intended goals.