The Instigator
silent999death
Pro (for)
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The Contender
ur_mum
Con (against)
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Is Communism better than Fascism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 532 times Debate No: 71490
Debate Rounds (5)
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silent999death

Pro

I Am Pro-Communism
My opponent is Pro Fascist
Now first what is Communism you may ask? By definition it is "a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs." While we look back at history many say communism was a failure Which it was. Lets look at The U.S.S.R. They came to life during WW1 in a time when Russia was losing a war and Soldiers were deserting the front my the thousands. Then came the Democracy, which helped hold off revolution, but only for a time, For they continued the very war that was destroying their nation from the inside. Then along came the the Bolsheviks. They took over the government and became the first Communist state. The leader was a man named Lenin, who during his power lived just as his people did, in a simple apartment with simple Furniture and simple pretty much everything. However this could not last for one day Lenin died of a stroke. Once he died the U.S.S.R was over, Stalin took power took all power and became a dictator, who unlike lenin lived in Mansions and threw elegant parties. Once he saw just how much power he had he lost it. He began killing millions of his own people sending more to Siberian labor camps.
Thus died the last and only true Communism in the world. Now how about a few examples of areas where Communism has not only worked but excelled. http://faircompanies.com...
This is an example of a town in Spain that is Self-sufficient and in many cases out-classes all near by areas.
Lets talk about Fascism which by definition is an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. One big thing, Fascism wants to bring glory to the nation by means of war. Thank you for your time
ur_mum

Con

I will begin, as my "worthy" opponent did, with a definition: Fascism is a philosophy that raises the nation above the individual and stands for a centralized government that suppresses its opposition. Fascism obviously has a negative connotation due to Hitler and the Holocaust, but is it really that bad? Let's look at the basic ideals of Fascism: Fascism glorifies the state, supports the idea of Social Darwinism, and uses elitism to raise the leader above the citizens. I will go into more detail on these in the following rounds, but the idea is that you only get what you deserve, and the people who are stronger succeed. Also, the nation and the leader are respected and treated as more important than the citizens, because, frankly, they are. Communism, on the other hand, treats everyone as equals, which sounds great at first. However, those who are deserve more are treated the same as those who deserve nothing. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and Communism makes all the links weak.
Debate Round No. 1
silent999death

Pro

My opponent has made a few points and i will proof them wrong.
1. He stated that everyone earns equal amount. This is false you make what you earn based on how important your job is and how dangerous it is. For example a surgeon whom performs open heart surgery is going to make more money than a farmer would. http://www.nyu.edu...
2.He states that Fascism is glorification of the state which is true, however they do this by means of war. You can look at Italy, they glorified the state by first invading Ethiopia, then Albania, and Finally Greece. You can also look at Germany They Annexed Austria in which broke a treaty, even if a treaty that completely screwed them over, was still a treaty, followed by the Sudetenland, and then Czechoslovakia which broke another treaty, Followed by the invasion of Poland which sparked the beginning of WW2. http://www.diffen.com...
3. Elitism is exactly what monarchies did and it just plain screws over the people. Need I say more there?
Now then lets get on the topic of Religion. In a true communism you would be allowed to worship whatever god you want. In fascism there is often a very thin or no line at all between Religion and the state. Look at Germany, where Jews were killed for simply being different.
ur_mum

Con

My opponent is a dumbass and he's about to get rekt.
1. It was a bit of an exaggeration, but fo real, Social Darwinism is good and Communism takes that away. There needs to be competition, the strong succeed and the weak fail.
2. What's so wrong with conquering other countries? The strong take over the weak, utilizing their resources and lifting that area to a better economic and political situation. You're pretty much grasping at straws with this argument.
3. http://dictionary.reference.com... defines elitism as "the belief that society should be governed by a select group of gifted and highly educated individuals" I don't know about you, but I'd rather be governed by an intelligent person than an idiot.
4. Yes, religion and state are intertwined, however, if the government unifies itself with the predominate religion in the country, it can unite the country under one religion and make it even more powerful. Fascism gets a bad rap due to the Holocaust. However, it was not necessarily based on religion, Hitler simply chose a group of people and blamed them for Germany's problems. Fascism tries to unite a group of similar people, but mass murder of 6 million Jews probably wasn't the best way to go about it.
Debate Round No. 2
silent999death

Pro

Social Darwinism
-Social Darwinism, term coined in the late 19th century to describe the idea that humans, like animals and plants, compete in a struggle for existence in which natural selection results in "survival of the fittest."
My opponent claims that communism throws this out the window, However forgets to mention that this is the goal of FULL COMMUNISM so it would be very difficult to achieve. In most cases of communism this still exists. You are going to compete with someone else to become a doctor rather than being a farmer your entire life.
2.Democracy and the workers council- In Russia shortly after the rise of the Bolsheviks, a new form of Communism came to power Leninism. One of the main ideas was that the Communist party would rule. This is also how they got the nations name,Soviet, which is Russian for Council. This works in as until Stalin took power the workers elected Other workers who they saw fit to lead to be a representative in their worker Council. Another common practice during these elections was for people to write their complaints and wants for different public services on the ballots.
Now you may be saying this sound just like American democracy but it isn"t. It removes the middleman better known as the electoral college. This means that each vote goes straight to the person being voted for. This means that if you vote for that person your vote stays with that person. This can make a huge difference, such as in cases where a president won the popular vote but due to the electoral college was deprived of the ability to rule the nation. In the end this means that the person who is most popular with the voters wins not the person who just wins over states with large amounts of electors.
Now lets talk MUH freedoms- A big thing with freedoms is guns. Many people believe that communist want to take away our guns, but that is just not true. In the communist Manifesto Marx state that the people must always be armed to protect against foreign and domestic threats, just as the constitution does. Another thing is freedom of religion. Many believe that communism wants nothing more than to take away your god. Once again this isn't true. You would still be able to worship but Marx states that Religion is not a political matter and should be removed from government all together.
ur_mum

Con

ur_mum forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
silent999death

Pro

silent999death forfeited this round.
ur_mum

Con

ur_mum forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
silent999death

Pro

silent999death forfeited this round.
ur_mum

Con

ur_mum forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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