The Instigator
TrumpFan
Pro (for)
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The Contender
CosmoJarvis
Con (against)
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0 Points

Is Donald Trump similar to Peter the Great?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/15/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 638 times Debate No: 99931
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

TrumpFan

Pro

Peter the Great of Russian history was a vocal, hands on, politically incorrect ruler who eventually transformed Russia. He permanently reshaped its future and dragged it out of the dark ages.
Peter upset many people along the way, and had to struggle with the power structure at that time (the Boyars).
He took "Russia first" nationalistic approach and was willing to go to war to fight for his beliefs.

That in many ways is similar to Donald Trump.
Donald is politically incorrect, hands on, fighting with his current power structure to get things done. He is going to war with other countries (trade war vs actual war).

I am not arguing that Trump is reincarnation of Peter the Great, but there are many similarities and we can observe patterns of behavior as we watch history repeat itself.
CosmoJarvis

Con

Outline:
I. Introduction

II. Their Intellect
III. Their Motivations
IV. Their Actions
V. Sources

I. Introduction

I will not deny that both Peter the Great and Donald Trump were fairly brash and politically incorrect during their time of rule. Donald Trump shouts "CHINA CREATED GLOBAL WARMING!" and "MUSLIMS ARE RAPING OUR COUNTRY." Peter the Great ran around with shears cutting Russians' long beards.

However, both their ambitions and administrations are dynamically different:

II. Their Intellect

Being that Donald Trump is a very rich man, we can perceive him as being extremely intelligent. He's been to an Ivy League School, though theories are circulating that he got in through money rather than merit. There is also a new conspiracy theory that he is not very literate. People like David Pakman have been suggesting that Trump cannot read or write well, as shown by his numerous amount of tweets with spelling errors, such as saying "
unpresidented," rather than "unprecedented," (S1). Furthermore, Donald Trump's briefings have been reduced to nothing more than around a page, mostly filled with maps and images rather than text. One government official said "While Mr. Obama liked policy option papers that were three to six single-spaced pages, council staff members are now being told to keep papers to a single page, with lots of graphics and maps... The president likes maps,” (S2). Additionally, many critics have analyzed his speeches, ranking his speaking skills at around a third grader's to a seventh grader's (S3).

On the other hand, Peter the Great was naturally drawn to learning and education. He was the first Russian monarch to receive an education in both Russia and abroad. He ambitiously pursued Western technologies and the sciences (S4).

III. Their Motivations

Donald Trump objectively wants to pursue a policy of isolation, as shown by his aspirations to make an immigration ban, the creation of expensive tariffs, and his ambitions to build a wall alongside the Mexican-American border. This will intentionally cut off foreign relations.


Peter the Great, on the other hand, wished to open up the Russian territory and expand to warm-water ports in the Mediterranean to open trade to Western Europe and the Middle East. He also sought to bring in Western scholars to educate his people, and assimilate into Western culture. Peter the Great would establish a vast amount of changes and reforms which would Westernize Russia technologically and culturally. He would even go as far as to tax Russian men for their long beards (because most Westerners had relatively short beards or no beard at all) and as I said before, would cut people's beards out in the open.

IV. Their Actions

As president, Donald Trump has declared the judiciary courts a threat to national security, attacked the Checks and Balances System, publically condemned Nordstrom for dropping his daughter's fashion line, tried to create a travel ban (which was ultimately declared unconstitutional), believes that he lost the popular vote during the election because of "millions of illegal voters," compared the actions of the United States to Putin's actions, blatantly undermined his daily briefings and going as far as to post tweets twenty minutes into the briefings or skip the meetings entirely, appointed a fair amount of unqualified people for the cabinet such as Betsy DeVos, Sean Spicer and Ben Carson, and threatened Mexico to pay for a wall around the Mexican-American border (S5). On the other hand, Peter the Great modernized Russia by introducing Western technologies and culture into the region, improve and reorganize the military, expanded education by setting up new schools and making them more available to citizens, reformed Russia's internal economy by applying mercantilism to stimulate agriculture, industry and commerce, and gave the state more power in the economy (S6). Though Peter the Great's reforms did not immediately change Russia, it did push Russia towards modernizing and Westernizing even further, stimulated learning and job specialization, and help Russia compete economically on a global scale.

Yes, Peter the Great did go against traditions and take a different approach to governing, but he did not use his political power to promote private business interests, wish to isolate his country, threaten other nations to pay for some boondoggle wall, allow such callow people into important government positions simply because of nepotism and disrespect and condemn parts of his government for being "unfair."

V. Sources:
S1) https://www.indy100.com...

S2) http://www.msnbc.com...
S3) http://www.politico.com...
S4) http://www.saint-petersburg.com...
S5) http://nymag.com...
S6) http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 1
TrumpFan

Pro

I will keep it very simple, according to 2 popular Debate websites - Trump and Peter the Great are similar.
A poll on Http://www.DebateIsland.com... has 50 votes at 88% that they are similar with numerous supporting comments.
http://www.debateisland.com...

A poll on CreateDebate also shows a winning argument for similarity.
http://www.createdebate.com...

Intellect:
I argue that both are highly intelligent, but in a different way. Trump has built a business empire, launched a popular TV series, and got elected as a President of the United States.
I don't know too many people who had those types of accomplishments.
He has demonstrated that he is a man of many trades, like Peter the Great.

Motivations:
Ultimately both represented nationalistic views, and went to war with other countries to advance their agenda. For Peter it was the actual war, but for Trump it is trade war.

Actions:
Both took decisive actions to advance their agenda, despite pre-existing power regime.

In summary, the votes on the other debate web sites are clear and with a large statistically significant sample. Especially Http://www.debateIsland.com... with 88% of the votes
CosmoJarvis

Con

"I argue that both are highly intelligent, but in a different way. Trump has built a business empire, launched a popular TV series, and got elected as a President of the United States... He has demonstrated that he is a man of many trades, like Peter the Great."

My opponent fails to explain how Peter the Great's "trades" are similar to Trump.

Additionally, my opponent argues that Trump has a successful business empire. However, firstly, Trump's wealth sourced mostly from Fred Trump's business successes. Yes, he has managed to open Trump Hotel and other business establishments in his name, but many are either not administrated by himself at all, instead relying on other to run them, or Trump licenses his name to different businesses.

Trump has run into many business failures such as Trump Steaks which has run into over 50 health complaints (such as serving five-month-old duck), Trump Airlines, Trump Model Magazine, Trump Casinos, etc.

Trump's administration relies primarily on the work and merit of others. He is simply lolling on a gold-plated couch in his extensive penthouse in Trump Towers.

On the other hand, Peter the Great was a hardworking leader. He would never neglect his works and projects as Donald Trump would nor allow for such failures.

"Ultimately both represented nationalistic views and went to war with other countries to advance their agenda."

Donald Trump did not go to war, nor did he express nationalistic views in such a brash and offensive way, such as saying "MUSLIMS ARE RAPING THIS COUNTRY!" or accuse nations of "stealing our jobs."

"In summary, the votes on the other debate web sites are clear and with a large statistically significant sample. Especially Http://www.debateIsland.com... 88% of the votes"

Using a poll with random people who may not even know exactly who Peter the Great is is not a reliable source of information.
Debate Round No. 2
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by TrumpFan 1 year ago
TrumpFan
The votes on poll are not random people. The sample size is over 50, and people who elected to opine and vote on the topic. With 88% and such a high sample size it is statistically significant.
Posted by sboss18 1 year ago
sboss18
Sweet appeal to popularity, TrumpFan.
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