The Instigator
deever
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
5taff
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Is Donovan McNabb a Hall of Famer?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
deever
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/23/2014 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 517 times Debate No: 57071
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

deever

Con

Donovan McNabb was a quarterback that played for the Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins and Minnesota Vikings. After he retired, he was asked by a reporter if he believed he was a hall of famer. McNabb says yes.

Now, McNabb is a borderline candidate and I must say that although he was a very good quarterback throughout most of his career, he is simply not deserving of the gold jacket. My opponent will argue that McNabb is deserving of a hall of fame bust. There are no official rules and I wish good luck to my opponent!
5taff

Pro

Thank you I am certainly happy to be debating such an intriguing subject
I would like for you to first present your point.
Debate Round No. 1
deever

Con

I think the biggest question when asking ourselves if a player is a hall of famer is why him? Why Donovan McNabb and not Jeff Garcia? Why McNabb and not Trent Green? What makes Donovan McNabb so special that he gets the nod and not others?

McNabb has large success with his "counting stats" (touchdowns, interceptions, passing yards). He ranks 22nd in passing yards, 17th in passing touchdowns and 14th in both completions and pass attempts. But in order to truly measure a quarterback's greatness, we must look at that person's efficiency. In order to do so, I want to focus on two main statistics, Passer Rating and Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt (ANY/A, developed by Pro Football Reference). McNabb has a career 85.6 passer rating and 5.89 ANY/A, 23rd and 24th respectively all time. But as we all know, football has become more of a passing league in recent years.

How well will McNabb fare with an era adjustment?
To do this, let's look at Rate+ and ANY/A+, which basically divides the quarterback's stat by the league average and then multiplies by 100 for easier reference. Among all passers since 1920 with at least 2240 career pass attempts, McNabb ranks just 44th in Rate+ and 43rd in ANY/A+. The only hall of famers McNabb are ahead of Is John Elway, Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman in Rate+. McNabb only beats one current hall of famer in ANY/A+, Troy Aikman again. But those three quarterbacks combined for 9 Super Bowl wins and 12 appearances. McNabb has only appeared in one Super Bowl and have never won. It is safe to say that if McNabb is inducted today, he would be arguably the worst quarterback in Canton.

While, yes many passers ahead of McNabb only have 3 or 4 thousand pass attempts, consider the following:
1) Of the 44 passers with at least 4000 pass attempts, McNabb ranks 25th in Rate+ and 26th in ANY/A+.
2) Of the 21 passers with at least 5000 pass attempts, McNabb ranks 13th in both Rate+ and ANY/A+.
3) Of the 14 passers with at least 5374 pass attempts, McNabb ranks 11th in both Rate+ and ANY/A+.
Thus, no matter how you look at it, McNabb was only a marginally more efficient passer than an average quarterback.
Perhaps this says it the best: From 2000 to 2010 (the bulk of McNabb's career), he was tenth in the league in ANY/A and eleventh in passer rating. Does that scream "hall of famer" to you? It sure doesn't for me. McNabb also ranks behind Jeff Garcia and Trent Green by a large margin.

Of course, a quarterback has more to do than just passing, they can also run and McNabb was one of the best. But I will note, that of McNabb's total yards (passing and rushing), his rushing only makes 8.5% of McNabb's total value. Passing is still the primary part of a quarterback's job and McNabb simply wasn't good enough.

Sources:
1) http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
2) http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
3) http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
5taff

Pro

Well first off id like to say that he was a very solid quarterback until the last two maybe three years of his career. Age gets to every player as we saw during Brett Farve's last year. Now you mentioned his passing rating was great and his counting stats were very good also. I would like to thank you for not being ignorant to the facts that go to his support. You mentioned his lack of Super Bowls which I agree with is not good on his part. Now look at his playoff passer rating. 80 is the number of his professional playoff passer rating. When you consider that you are going up against the best in the league at that point and still manage to have anything over 75 you are doing good. If you are a pro bowl selection six times that is a big deal also. If he was not "hall of fame material" how come when he left Philadelphia there were multiple teams trying to get him on board their crew. Also how did this non hall of famer make pro bowl despite maybe the worst wide outs in nfl history. The wide outs failed to get TD in first 2 months of the season and not many more on the season. Face it, Mcnabb for the majority of his career was on a really bad team, and I don't mean that as a put down but really.
I would also like to go beyond numbers into a little more touchy subject. He was a major African American influence. Black people have not statistically been very good NFL quarterbacks. Again I mean no disrespect by that but numbers don't lie. Here is a little football trivia. How many black quarterbacks are in the Hall of Fame. The answer is one and that is warren moon. I mean mcnabb was probably the second best black quarterback of all time and an influence to any black quarter back that wants a shot at the big show. If you have any more points please present.
Debate Round No. 2
deever

Con

First off, I want to remind everyone that although McNabb posted strong counting stats, he was far less efficient than many of his peers. My opponent stated that McNabb has a career playoff passer rating of 80, which is true. However, I disagree with with my opponent's statement, "anything over 75 you are good." I disagree because the league passer rating was roughly in the mid 80s. Thus, how is McNabb doing well? Furthermore, my opponent wrote, "you are going up against the best in the league". While yes, playoff teams as a whole are very strong, this does NOT mean their DEFENSES are strong. For example, last season there were several teams with horrific defenses, including the Chargers and the Broncos. Just McNabb played against strong teams does not mean he played against strong defenses. McNabb actually did quite poorly in the postseason.
My opponent believes because McNabb is a black quarterback, he deserves recognition. McNabb never really paved the way for black quarterback, they aren't very prevalent today. McNabb may be the second best black quarterback, but he is no where close to the best quarterback ever.
My opponent also believes that because McNabb made six pro bowls, he deserves to be in Canton. But, remember, pro bowls are extremely opinionated and sketchy, they are voted for by fans. McNabb did not deserve several of those pro bowl selections.
Lastly, although many teams wanted McNabb after he was released following the 2009 season, remember he only played one season with the Washington Redskins. Later in 2011, he lost his job to Christian Ponders. Furthermore, lots of teams need quality, even average quarterbacks. A player doesn't need to be a future hall of famer for that kind of interest.
5taff

Pro

5taff forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
deever

Con

deever forfeited this round.
5taff

Pro

5taff forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ajab 2 years ago
Ajab
deever5taffTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited twice.