The Instigator
Ryaniskira
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
thevanthi.t
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Is Feminism still needed in the western world?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Ryaniskira
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/10/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 577 times Debate No: 83704
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Ryaniskira

Con

With women having just as much rights as men, and even more in some cases(1) In the West is Feminism really needed anymore? Feminism nowadays only seems to push false statistics such as the one in five myth(2-4) when the rape rates are really 6-7/1000(5) which is still 6-7 too many but nowhere near close to 1 in 5. They also push myths like a supposed wage gap when paying women less has been illegal since 1963(6) and the reason women earn (keyword right there) less than men is due to the different choices women make, as per a CONSAD study(7). Also they claim that women should be scared when walking alone at night and women are the primary victims of violent crime(8-10) and even target apps and devices towards only women(11), but not men who are actually the primary victims of not only stranger violence(12) but violent crime as a whole(13). This just makes women look like weak victims when they are about just as capable as men in defending themselves if they work towards it.(14-17) Another thing feminism pushes is that women are incapable of being violent [and even going as far as to drive a woman out of her home country when she disagrees(18)] when that is simply not true(20-21). Finally Feminism has been the direct cause of some issue affecting men, including the current stigma with male domestic abuse victims(22). Feminism has evolved into something that was kinda beneficial to just flat out misandry, and even in India it is no better than in the West.(23) No matter where feminism exists today it is nothing but a crock pot of misandry ruining people's lives with false rape claims(24-27) and making women look like weak defenseless victims.

(1)https://archive.is...
(2)https://archive.is...
(3)https://archive.is...
(4)https://archive.is...
(5)http://www.bjs.gov...
(6)http://www.eeoc.gov...
(7)http://www.consad.com...
(8)https://www.youtube.com...
(9)https://archive.is...
(10)https://archive.is...
(11)https://archive.is...
(12)http://www.bjs.gov...
(13)http://www.bjs.gov...
(14)https://www.youtube.com...
(15)https://archive.is...
(16)http://www.complex.com...
(17)https://www.youtube.com...
(18)https://en.wikipedia.org...
(19) http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
(20)https://archive.is...
(21)http://www.saveservices.org...
(22)http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu...
(23) https://plus.google.com...
(24)http://today.duke.edu...
(25)http://dailycaller.com...
(26)http://www.mindingthecampus.org...
(27)http://www.dangerandplay.com...

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thevanthi.t

Pro

Women are treated and respected badly these days.
My starting sentence may be vague but it has many hidden meanings in it. Feminism is essential, and why I say this is because in the past few years women all around the world have been treated badly. E.g : In Pakistan women are tortured to death. They should cover themselves from top to bottom , not talk to men and according to the Taliban the reason why God has created women is to give birth to children. Is this right? Women in Pakistan cannot go to school. The reason why Taliban prevent women from being educated is that when a woman is educated it is like as if the whole family is educated. Why did Malala get shot? Why did she sacrifice her life?
The answer to this how is in the need of feminism. In today's world women have no freedom : they can't dress as they want, study as they wish and even when women are married according to the father's wish. Is this right? Aren't women to humans? Don't they need a life where they too could enjoy?
I strongly insist in the need of feminism in the western world.
Another example I would like to give is that in Pakistan a girl was married at the age of 16.After her marriage she was tortured,beaten,starved and mentally and physically abused. Is this what a sixteen year old girl should face?
She ran away from her husband's home. After about 2 days they found her the husband took her to the mountains and cut off her ears and nose. How cruel has this man been to this girl? Isn't there anyone to stand up against women who suffer like this all around the world?
So now do you realise the importance of feminism and why it i needed in today's western world.
Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
Ryaniskira

Con

"Women are treated and respected badly these days."

How are they treated and respected badly? They have laws and protections available only to them and even had the privilege of speaking to the UN and Congress which few people have the privilege of doing. They actually receive help when they are raped and abused, unlike men and are even seen in a better light than men.


"Feminism is essential, and why I say this is because in the past few years women all around the world have been treated badly."

How are they treated bad exactly? The only examples I see are in Islamic cultures but feminists, and the wider SJW movement, defend Islamic culture even though it is very very detrimental to women.

"E.g : In Pakistan women are tortured to death."

Yet feminists never ever focus on that. Instead they are focusing on how the internet should be censored to protect their feelings, how breasts in video games are evil, how we should put men in concentration camps(1), and other stuff that is not helping women in those situations.

"They should cover themselves from top to bottom , not talk to men and according to the Taliban the reason why God has created women is to give birth to children. Is this right? Women in Pakistan cannot go to school. The reason why Taliban prevent women from being educated is that when a woman is educated it is like as if the whole family is educated."

Again, what is feminism doing for these women? Absolutely nothing because Feminism's first world problems are more important to them.

"Why did Malala get shot? Why did she sacrifice her life?"

Because those cultures that feminists honestly had the power to destroy of the wanted to still remain because feminism only focuses on subjective first world problems.

"The answer to this how is in the need of feminism. In today's world women have no freedom"

In any first world country, women are the most privileged people in the world moreso in the USA and Canada. It is only Islamic countries where women dont have any freedom and that is a vast minority of the planet. Anywhere else either women have it made in the shade or they have it bad, but men have it just as bad.

"they can't dress as they want"


In any culture that is not Islamic they can dress pretty much however they choose. The only exceptions are schools and workplaces where dress codes are enforced but in said places dress codes are enforced on men as well.

"study as they wish and even when women are married according to the father's wish. Is this right? Aren't women to humans? Don't they need a life where they too could enjoy?"

Again, Islamic cultures taht feminism is doing nothing about.

"I strongly insist in the need of feminism in the western world."

You have yet to give one example to show that feminism is still needed in the western world.

"Another example I would like to give is that in Pakistan a girl was married at the age of 16.After her marriage she was tortured,beaten,starved and mentally and physically abused. Is this what a sixteen year old girl should face? She ran away from her husband's home. After about 2 days they found her the husband took her to the mountains and cut off her ears and nose. How cruel has this man been to this girl? "

Do you have any citations to the specific girl you are talking about?

"Isn't there anyone to stand up against women who suffer like this all around the world?"

There are people who do and those people are not feminists.


(1)https://archive.is...
thevanthi.t

Pro

My opponent says that "They actually receive help when they are raped and abused, unlike men and are even seen in a better light than men." Just because they receive 'help' does not mean that what ever happened to them has changed. How will they face themselves to the outside world?, how will they marry? Their lives are a misery. 90 % of these women eventually commit suicide at the end.
These women are treated badly by getting beaten and tortured b various uncivilised methods. Methods which should not be done according to law. This does not only happen in the Islam culture but all over the world. These uncivilised torture methods happen in India ,Srilanka,Pakistan, Africa and so many countries all around the world. It is just that we are not aware these happenings all around the world.
'Yet feminists never ever focus on that. Instead they are focusing on how the internet should be censored to protect their feelings, how breasts in video games are evil, how we should put men in concentration camps(1), and other stuff that is not helping women in those situations."
Feminists do not care about whether men are put in concentration camps or not they want equality. In the 19th century women wanted the right to vote. Now women want equality and freedom like men.Women don't have time to go and see and play video games where "breasts are considered to be evil" This statement does not even make sense.
'Again, what is feminism doing for these women? Absolutely nothing because Feminism's first world problems are more important to them."
Is it wrong to let women wear want they want ? If a man can dress as he wishes why can't women do that? Are we women asking for money, no we simply want the rights.Feminism gives women the courage and dignity to stand up for themselves.I f your own problems are important to you, then a feminist's problem is to important to them. Depending on who you are your problems are important to you.
'In any culture that is not Islamic they can dress pretty much however they choose. The only exceptions are schools and workplaces where dress codes are enforced but in said places dress codes are enforced on men as well.'
No this is not the case. When a women wears sexy outfits people comment on her, make fun of her and make her feel bad. The how on earth can she dress as she wants?
It is not only the Islamic culture where this happens. This happens in every typical Asian country and sometimes in the western countries.
'There are people who do and those people are not feminists."
Even if they are not feminists they know the difficultly a woman faces. Only a family without a mother would understand the difficulties it is without a woman. This makes them understand feminism.When a mother does everything for you why can't we make her have her own rights? Why can't we let her enjoy herself?
So I think I have proved to my opponent that feminism is MUST in today's western world.
Thank You.
Debate Round No. 2
Ryaniskira

Con

"Just because they receive 'help' does not mean that what ever happened to them has changed. How will they face themselves to the outside world?, how will they marry? Their lives are a misery. 90 % of these women eventually commit suicide at the end."

It is obivous that no amount of help can change what has already happened, but that help can help the person heal and move on from that. Also can you link me citations to "90% of these women eventually commit suicide" please?


"These women are treated badly by getting beaten and tortured b various uncivilised methods. Methods which should not be done according to law."

Again, what is Feminism doing for these women? What has feminism ever done to stop this from happening? In fact feminists exploit women in these types of conditions to make T-shirts to make money.(1)

"This does not only happen in the Islam culture but all over the world."

Actually it pretty much only happens under Islamic culture. Sharia law is barbaric and basically treats women like objects or slaves. Other places where women are getting tortured and whatnot men are also getting that same torture.

"These uncivilised torture methods happen in India ,Srilanka,Pakistan, Africa and so many countries all around the world. It is just that we are not aware these happenings all around the world."

Each one of those places you mentioned has a heavy Islamic influence.


"Feminists do not care about whether men are put in concentration camps or not they want equality."

You clearly did not read my citation. That was a feminst calling for men to be put into camps and checked out like library books. Feminists are not for equality and the pretty much never were.

"In the 19th century women wanted the right to vote. Now women want equality and freedom like men."

Yeah and they got that voting right without the assocaited responsability. Yes that is changing soon(2-3) but that comes about a century late.

"Women don't have time to go and see and play video games where "breasts are considered to be evil" This statement does not even make sense."

You clearly have never heard of Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian, because that is exactly what they do(4-5) while claiming you can not be sexist against men.(6)

"Is it wrong to let women wear want they want ? If a man can dress as he wishes why can't women do that?"

Where did I say women should not be able to wear what they want? Also there are places where both men and women have restrictions placed on what they can wear. Mainly schools and workplaces but some restaurants have dress codes.

"Are we women asking for money, no we simply want the rights.Feminism gives women the courage and dignity to stand up for themselves."

No, Feminism makes women look like perputual victims and nothing more.

"I f your own problems are important to you, then a feminist's problem is to important to them. Depending on who you are your problems are important to you."

Just because their problems are important to them does not mean they are doing anything beneficial to anyone.

"No this is not the case. When a women wears sexy outfits people comment on her, make fun of her and make her feel bad. The how on earth can she dress as she wants?"

How is that physically preventing her from putting on whatever clothes she wants to? Is she getting arrested for wearing those outfits? No. Is she getting fines for wearing those outfits? No. Then she can still wear those clothes she just has self-esteem issues if she lets a few a$$holes tell her what she can and can not wear.

"It is not only the Islamic culture where this happens. This happens in every typical Asian country and sometimes in the western countries."

Actually it is Islamic cultures and a good bit of Asia has Islamic influences.

"Even if they are not feminists they know the difficultly a woman faces."

You just stabbed your entire argument in the heart there. Because you just admitted that there are people, who are not feminists, who focus on women's issues without being raging misandrists. Thus feminism is no longer needed.

"Only a family without a mother would understand the difficulties it is without a woman."

Actually it is no worse than growing up without a father. Actually growing up without a father is worse because most criminals come from single mother households.(7)


"So I think I have proved to my opponent that feminism is MUST in today's western world."

No, you have not.

(1)https://archive.is...;
(2)https://archive.is...
(3)https://archive.is...;
(4)https://twitter.com...
(5)https://www.youtube.com...
(6)https://archive.is...;
(7)https://archive.is...;
thevanthi.t

Pro

Lately, I"ve been asked more and more why I"m a feminist. "Do we even need feminism anymore?" they ask.

They think feminism is about becoming better than men. They think feminists are angry at men for their privilege (and sometimes that"s true). They allege it"s time for a men"s rights movement to counteract feminism, since some feminist measures have appeared to succeed in leveling the playing field. In some cases, women are appearing to fare better than men " for example, 25 percent more women graduate from college than men. Some people think this means feminism has worked, and is now just hurting America.

However:

And although women as a group have made substantial gains in wages, educational attainment, and prestige over the past three decades, the economists Justin Wolfers and Betsey Stevenson have shown that women are less happy today than their predecessors were in 1972, both in absolute terms and relative to men.
Men make almost half a million more in 40 years of working than a woman " if they saved it up, it"s enough to feed their family for 37 additional years.
Some workplaces " including in Kansas City " require women to wear heels, which cause long term health problems. There is not an equivalent for men. (It"s easy to say "So then don"t work there," but not everyone has the luxury to choose.)
Mothers are less likely to be hired than fathers. Mothers are seen as a risk " she might take days off for the kids " while fathers are seen to be hard-working family men.
We"re still held to "lady like" standards at home and work " no such standard is a barrier for men. It"s funny when men fart, but disgusting when women do it. It"s ok when men swear, but on women it"s uncouth.
I don"t want my little sister to be treated like I"ve been treated in the workplace.
"You"re emotional" is a way to undermine women"s passionate opinions, even when passion is seen as a benefit in men.
We are not an interest group.
Girls are still told "It means he likes you" when boys hit them. Violence is touted as flattery.
Men get courtesies like "sir," women are called "sweetie" in the same situations. (I"ve been called "doll", "sweetheart," "hun," and "babe" in job interviews with men " I doubt they would use the same names for male interviewees.)
Women who keep their maiden name after the wedding have to justify it for the rest of their life. Men aren"t asked to change their identity just because they get married.
"Miss," "Ms.," and "Mrs." define women by their marriage status. Men just use "Mr." their whole life.
Thinspiration.
Coming out as LGBT or allied can still be scary, even if it gets better.
No one should have to wait to start their career until their kids are grown.
Women still aren"t allowed to serve on the front lines in the military, even if they are capable and want to.
Preventative reproductive health care for women is constantly under siege in politics, but men have autonomy over their bodies and medical decisions.
So isn't it necessary that we need feminism in the western world?
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Themeaman909 1 year ago
Themeaman909
Ryaniskirathevanthi.tTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: I think con made an overall better argument because pro kept referencing the middle eastern cultures, and that is for a different topic. I was sitting on the fence before this argument, and I was swayed by cons points, and pro did not provide relevant information. I think we don't need feminism because it is the equivalent of teaching women that they have less rights and should go crazy to try and get every little bit more of rights. People can't truly believe they are free, unless THEY BELIEVE IN THEMSELVES! They shouldn't sit on a couch hoping a feminist politician is elected, and instead ignore the propaganda and not believe they are equal or better. Instead they should think that rights belong to everyone, and you shouldn't have to fight for them, or YOUR rights ARE being violated by yourself.
Vote Placed by Sdio 1 year ago
Sdio
Ryaniskirathevanthi.tTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was referencing the Middle East and other countries heavily influenced by Islam the entire time, when the title clearly indicates that Con is referencing the West. Pro never even once attempted to dispute that. Pro also blatantly plagiarized in his last response and for that loses conduct points. Con takes it.