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Is GOD ONE (Tauheed) and not in TRINITY

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,163 times Debate No: 85369
Debate Rounds (3)
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May the Peace and blessings of Allah be unto you my fellow brother and to everyone reading this debate.

The topic before me today God is One (Tauheed) and not Trinity is not new in debate platforms between Islamic and Christian faithfuls. Infact, it has been for ages and I believe it won't stop here.

First of all, I believe my opponent and I both agree that God exists since logically we would not be making any debate if God exist as One or in Trinity, But i stand to be corrected and open for any debate to proof God really exists,

I would also state some qualities of God in which would be open for clarification if my opponent does not agree with any. These qualities are same as that I used in my previous debate since both topics are a bit familiar. You can search for the debate on this platform YEHOSHUA IS GOD.

1. God is One
2. God is sovereign and does not depend on anyone
3. God was not begotten
4; God has none like him
5. God has knowledge of everything
6. God does not change
7. God never sleeps nor slumbers
8. God is the only One that sits on THE HEAVENLY THRONE
9. God does not lie
10. God can never have His God

To back my claim and prove the Oneness of God, i would provide some scriptural evidences in both Bible and Quran. I would then proceed further in refuting the claims as Jesus being God and the Holy Spirit being part of God, thereby debunking the term TRINITY which is a word that never for once appeared in the Bible.

Be careful. My opponent would claim Trinity thus appeared in 1st John 5 vs 7 ( For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one). This appears in the King James Version of the Bible. But what does the Revised Standard Version say; 1 John 5:7Revised Standard Version (RSV)
And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. This is the closest chapter regarding the word TRINITY.

The Preface of this Revise Standard Version Bible made a claim that the King James Version has so many errors. Let me copy a little exerts from the Preface of RSV Bible

Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation. The task was undertaken, by authority of the Church of England, in 1870. The English Revised Version of the Bible was published in 1881-1885; and the American Standard Version, its variant embodying the preferences of the American scholars associated in the work, was published in 1901.

The problem of establishing the correct Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Old Testament is very different from the corresponding problem in the New Testament. For the New Testament we have a large number of Greek manuscripts, preserving many variant forms of the text. Some of them were made only two or three centuries later than the original composition of the books. For the Old Testament, only late manuscripts survive, all (with the exception of the Dead Sea texts of Isaiah and Habakkuk and some fragments of other books) based on a standardized form of the text established many centuries after the books were written.

The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying. It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts.

A major reason for revision of the King James Version, which is valid for both the Old Testament and the New Testament, is the change since 1611 in English usage. The greatest problem, however, is presented by the English words which are still in constant use but now convey a different meaning from that which they had in 1611 and in the King James Version. These words were once accurate translations of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures; but now, having changed in meaning, they have become misleading. They no longer say what the King James translators meant them to say.

You can go to for the full preface which clearly refutes 1john 5 vs 7 of the KJV Bible.

1. there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
2. Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
3. Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
4. See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
5. You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
6. "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
7. "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
8. "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
9. "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
10. "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
11. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one [hen] and love the other, or he will be devoted to one [hen] and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." Matthew 6:24
12. ""The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; " Mark 12:29
13. "there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
14. "yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
15. "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only [monos] God" 1 Timothy 1:17
16. "For there is one [hen] God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
17. Galatians 3:20 " Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
18. "there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
19. "to the only [monos] wise God, Amen." Romans 16:27
20. Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.


Quran 23 vs 91 "God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: For then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others."
QURAN 112 VS 1 "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."
Quran 21 vs 22 And Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they (heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin."
Quaran 29 vs 46 And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Quran 59:22-24 "He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."


Dear reader please watch what scriptures my opponent would bring concerning TRINITY. He would quote a verse like this

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Please i would want you to read previous verses preceding this verse. It clearly shows
oneness of purpose.The translation of this verse has its problem from the original Hebrew or Aramiac which was originally used which had its contextual meaning. There are some scriptural verses that are similar to this.
"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one [hen], just as We are one [hen]" John 17:22
"For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh. " Genesis 2:24
Does this mean a man and woman fused into one being? NO
Can you call the 12 disciples one being? NO
They all have separate existence but are ONE as regards to the contextual meaning of the speaker.
We see, then, that the Father and Jesus Christ are also one in the same sense that Jesus prayed for the Church to be one"not one single being, but multiple beings who are one in purpose, belief, direction, faith, spirit and attitude.

Let us not forget that i mentioned earlier the 10 qualities of God;

1. God is One
2. God is sovereign and does not depend on anyone
3. God was not begotten
4; God has none like him
5. God has knowledge of everything
6. God does not change
7. God never sleeps nor slumbers
8. God is the only One that sits on THE HEAVENLY THRONE
9. God does not lie
10. God can never have His God

I have clearly proved quality #1 and I expect my opponent to show us where Jesus explicitly said I AM GOD or WORSHIP ME if he refutes my claim. Looking at the 10 qualities, I would want my opponent to show me if Jesus has any of these qualities of God and he has to do this convincingly. I AM WAITING.

While I wait, I would be preparing for my ROUND 2 where i would explicitly show you the qualities and manifestations of the Holy Spirit(s) and why the Holy Spirit(s) cannot be regarded as God. I would be using the last RUND 3 as my rebuttals of any claim my opponent does wrongly.
Please stay tuned.


I begin by given Glory to Jesus Christ, the author and Finisher of our faith. To him alone deserves all glory.

I am happy for the opportunity to explain the trinity and why it makes more sense that Tawhid. I will be approaching my topic from two angles.

logical Angie
Biblical angle.

As a former Muslim, One of my favorite chapter of the Quran which clearly debunk the concept of Trinity is Surat Ikhlas. Quran 112. The third verse states and I quote "He beget not Nor was he Begotten. Growing up with this verse stuck in my heart, I have always viewed the Christians as Polytheist because they believe in three God and assuming it as one.

I had no opportunity to learn what it meant for Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. Like all Muslim, i always believe it to be a biological Sonship. It was Like God decided to create another God which is lower to him considering the fact the bible attested to this in John 14:28 when Jesus said. The father is greater than me. This clearly proved that the Christians were foolish and confused.

However, when I found Christ, one of the stumbling block to my New Faith was the Trinity. It still made no sense. When I began to approach the topic logically, it became clearer why the Trinity is the most logical way to conceptualize God than the Tawhid especially when we believe God is the Almighty.

When you study Science carefully, you will notice there are things in this world so tiny that we can only view them through microscopes, and yet they are incomprehensibly complex. Though quantum mechanics comes to mind, much more commonplace matters can be similarly befuddling, such as light. Light defies the minds of scientists, being both a particle and a wave, yet this apparent contradiction is demonstrably true.

If it so difficult for science to fully comprehend energy, how much more difficult will it be to comprehend the Creator of Energy.

The believe that God is so comprehensible that we try to fit him into our brains proves that we are just making a God we can understand in our image.

My Opponent have given several reason why God should be considered Tawhid. He appealed to several verses from the bible. Which I will address during my rebuttals.

The bible Fully attest to God as one (Deuteronomy 4:35) yet he is somehow plural. (Genesis 1:26) Then God said, Let US create man in OUR image.

In Deuteronomy 6:4, God says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." Again we see the three in one, The LORD, God, the LORD"one.

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of US, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- (Genesis 3:22)

Because of the Character sensitivity of this platform, I will be limited to post more evidence from the scripture. However, we can see clearly from the above that God is trying to communicate to us his nature.

The Muslim mind appeal to Tawhid. But does not necessarily mean Islam totally teach it. Islam teaches that the Quran being the word of God is eternal. If The Quran is eternal and Allah is eternal, Do we say Islam believes in two eternal entities? The only way to reconcile this is to agree that the Quran is not eternal but created. However, if my Opponent insist the word of God is indeed ieternal, then he has just agree with John 1:1 and John 1:14 which clearly explains the person of Christ.

John 1:1 & 14
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus Christ was not just included into the Godhead simply because Christians loves him, We're told that the common people heard him gladly. And, "He taught as One who had authority, and not as their teachers of the Law.
It soon became apparent, however, that he was making shocking and startling statements about himself. He began to identify himself as far more than a remarkable teacher or prophet. He began to say clearly that he was God. He made his identity the focal point of his teaching. The all-important question he put to those who followed him was, "Who do you say I am?" When Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus was not shocked, nor did he rebuke Peter. On the contrary, he commended him!

Jesus frequently referred to "My Father," and his hearers got the full impact of his words. We are told, "The Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

On another occasion in John 10:30-34, Jesus said, "I and My Father are One." Immediately the religious authorities wanted to stone him. He asked them which of his good works caused them to want to kill him. They replied, "We are not stoning you for any of these but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.

In Mark 2:5-7, When a paralyzed man was let down through the roof wanting to be healed by him, Jesus said, "Son, your sins are forgiven you." The religious leaders immediately reacted. "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?

Again In Mark 14:61-62 When Jesus was on trial for his life, the high priest put the question to him directly: "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?" he asked. "You have heard the blasphemy.

So close was Jesus' connection with God that he equated a person's attitude to himself with the person's attitude toward God. Thus, to know him was to know God.6 To see him was to see God. To believe in him was to believe in God. To receive him was to receive God. To hate him was to hate God. And to honor him was to honor God.

It absurd when the deity of Christ is attacked by a religion which existed 600 years after without strong foundation to refute It. I believe Jesus to be God because every shred of evidence points towards that.

Let me close by saying, the Bible teaches that God is one being and three persons. This is not a contradiction, because "being" and "person" are two different things. Your being is that which makes you what you are, your person is that which makes you who you are. For instance, I am one being, a human being, and one person. Yahweh is one being, God, with three persons: Father, Son, and Spirit.

I will be preparing my second round while I await my opponents rebuttal.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1



May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon my opponent and every reader reading this discussion.

I started my first round highlighting some qualities of God (#10 of them) and went ahead giving some scriptural evidences to show that God is ONE (20 verses in the Bible and say 5 verses in the Quran). I finalized by challenging my opponent to show explicitly where Jesus said I AM GOD or WORSHIP ME. I am still waiting for him on this.

Let me begin by quickly rebutting what my opponent made mention in his opening arguments.These are statement that amaze me and statements which many Christian apologists would agree with me are clear mistakes made by my opponent who I think did not make much research before posting them.I guess my opponent never knew I was once a Christian and I was always against muslims,most at times using such verses to back my claims.I was not converted overnight like how most Christian converts do but I had a 3year research on the right path to salvation.Let me point out some of his mistakes:
(Genesis 1:26) Then God said, Let US create man in OUR image.
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of US, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- (Genesis 3:22)

My brother the use of US and OUR to address God is not new.You claim to be a former muslim, I wonder why you didn't attack the Quran too by saying the Quran uses We and Us to address God. Have you not heard of plural of respect. This is quite different from plural of numbers. Almost every dialect has this. For instance, am a yoruba man and we address an elderly person using 'AWON' or 'Eyin'. This same word can be used for a group of people.
I would give you another instance, this time in the Bible.
Genesis 1 vs 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The Greek word used for God here is ELOHIM which means gods if translated to your own reasoning. ELI is the singular word but -HIM is added to it to make ELOHIM as a sign of respect. If using your reasoning, it should have been translated as IN THE BEGINNING gods CREATED HEAVEN AND THE EARTH.

Dear readers, I told you to be careful of my opponent using verses likeJohn 10:30-34Jesus said, "I and My Father are One." This I clearly refuted in my opening argument explaining it as ONENESS OF PURPOSE.

My opponent went on an on explaining that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. I accept this but would add that God has sons in tons. A lot of scriptures denote other prophets as being the Son of God.
Exodus 4:22-23 God said to Moses, “When you get back to Egypt, be prepared: All the wonders that I will do through you, you’ll do before Pharaoh. But I will make him stubborn so that he will refuse to let the people go. Then you are to tell Pharaoh, ‘God’s Message: Israel is my son, my firstborn! I told you, “Free my son so that he can serve me.” But you refused to free him. So now I’m going to killyourson,yourfirstborn.
Jeremiah 31:9I am a father to Israel, andEphraim is my firstborn." Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22
Psalm 2:7"....Jehovah had said ontome (David), thou artmy Son; this day haveI begotten thee."Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son !!!.

My brother and fellow readers let us apply of reasoning to these scriptures:
Mark 16:19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
MY QUESTION IS THIS? WHOSE RIGHT HAND IS JESUS SITTED? GOD RIGHT...SO IS JESUS GOD OR THE CREATOR SITTED ON THE THRONE?...NO...I know you would ask me to prove this. This I would prove by also disclaiming the idea of the Holy Spirit(s) being GOD. You would notice I always add an -s to Holy Spirit(s). Please read carefully;

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy,LordGod Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Did you notice the words in bold letters? There are 7 Spirits of God in lamps before the throne of God which are shown as manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The earlier scriptures said Jesus would be sittting at the right hand of God. Please let us use reasoning as my opponent has used in his logic of explaining TRINITY. If Jesus is sitted at the right hand of God and Revelations 4 vs 4 says there are 24elders sitted around the Throne. It shows Jesus is sitted at the right hand of the Throne. What happened to these elders later in verse 10...The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne... Subhanallah

Going through scripturally the qualities of God as explained in the Bible and compare them with Jesus. We would see that he lacks every one of them.

1. God is One: I have continually expressed my opinion on this

2. God is sovereign and does not depend on anyone;
Acts 17 vs 24 -25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things
Isaish 46 vs 11 ...yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it
Ephesians 1: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
Daniel 4;35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Luke 5:16"And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
Matthew 26:39"And going a little way forward,he (Jesus) fell upon his face, prayingand saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.'
Matthew 26:42"Again, for the second time,he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'"My comments on this verse are similar to the above one(Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.
Matthew 26:44"So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word."Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for inMatthew 26:39above. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe if he (1) begs, and (2) lacks power??!!

I would conclude on this quality of God because of time and limited words by quoting John5 vs 30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

There are 8 other qualities of God which Jesus lacked which I am yet to talk on which would be highlighted below. I would be doing that in my next concluding round with rebuttals on claims made by my opponent.

1. God is One
2. God is sovereign and does not depend on anyone
3. God was not begotten
4; God has none like him
5. God has knowledge of everything
6. God does not change
7. God never sleeps nor slumbers
8. God is the only One that sits on THE HEAVENLY THRONE
9. God does not lie
10. God can never have His God

In concluding this round, please read Isaiah 43:10-12

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.




Glory and Honor be unto our Lord Jesus Christ. He alone deserves all praise.

I am delighted that my opponent could not refute my logic about the complexity of our God and the limitations of our mind to comprehend the nature of God. However, my opponent keep making references that God I'd one. It appears he is mistaken the concept of Trinity as Tritheism. As a Christian, I do not believe in three Gods. I believe that God is one. However he is complex in nature. I will suggest my opponent read my introduction again.

My opponent claim that when God referred to himself as US, it's an expression of respect to himself. He even went a step further to use his local dialect to exemplify his argument, Fellow readers, Does this make sense. God respecting himself that he pluralized himself? This is like me speaking to someone and using the term "we" to address myself. Won't the person think am referring to myself and some other people?
In my opponents local dialect, you don't use the term US when referring to yourself. It is only used when referring to another person or people. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the plural of majesty does not occur in Hebrew thus, this argument is completely baseless and should be abandoned,

Severally, in the Quran, God pluralizes his person. while modern day Muslim apologist have taken this to be a royal hood or majestic statement. The truth is, the term was first used by Queen Victoria of Great Britain during her reign in the late 19th century. If my opponent insist on proving me wrong, he should please provide an evidence substantial.

Despite all the evidence that I provided in my introductory statement confirming Christ affirming and Equating himself with God, My Opponents still wants me to provide him with literal statement that shows where Jesus said, I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME. This question is so unscholarly because if we are to approach this dialogue by providing text literally as evidence, and not taking the whole scriptures into context. I can as well ask my opponent to show me Literally where Jesus said in the bible, I AM NOT GOD, DON'T WORSHIP ME.

It is clear that my Opponent does not understand what the sonship of Christ is. Let me explain to him by introducing him to Isaiah 9:15

Isaiah 9:15
For Unto us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The sonship of Christ was an eternal one, not biological, Jesus is the word of God according to John 1:1. So just as the words of our mouth expresses the content of our heart, so the Son of God expresses the heart of the Father.

How pitying it is to see that my opponent refer to the right hand of God by depicting him as human despite his claims of been a former Christian. Anyway brother, you see, to sit at ones right hand means a place of authority, it was a place of honor it meant dignity and rulership. Throughout the O.T there is used what are called anthropomorphism to describe God in some function or characteristic. this is figurative language describing a certain characteristic of God it is describing his divine actions from a human view point.
For example there are the scriptures such as the eyes of the Lord go to and through upon the earth. There are mention of his ears, feet, mouth, back, fingers, arms, and hands. None of these should be taken in the solid literal sense that God has form as a human creature, these are meant to communicate something of his being of service. Examples

God is called a shield, a buckler, a high tower, a vine, a door, a hen, the Lion of the tribe of Judah his eyes run to and fro upon the earth. Men are called sheep, lambs, salt, branches, we seek his face (do we really look for his face literally) we are to keep our eyes on Jesus (can we really see him).

Their are examples of his arm which was a symbol of his power. the arm was used as the agency of strength, when the Bible refers the arm of the Lord it is consistently about the son, as God reaches into the Earth to do his work. Ex.6:6 the Lord redeemed Israel "with an outstretched arm." Isaiah 53:1 " to who has the arm of the Lord been revealed." Isa.63:5 "therefore my own arm brought salvation for me. Also in like manner his hand is used to most often symbolize an activity of service.

Isa.48:13 'speaks of his hand laying the foundation of the Earth, and my right hand spanned the heavens..." Isa.62:8 " the Lord has sworn by his right hand, and by his arm of strength." Isa. 59:1" the Lord's hand is not shortened that it cannot save.

So compare this to what you have been assuming the right hand to be. And see which truly can be attributed to God. After all the Ayatul Kursiyu talked about Allan's throne extending to the heavens and earth. Am sure you won't want me to interprete this literally.


1. God is One.// Sango is One, Bhudda is One, Baal is One. Allah is One. Only YHWH is One in three person, How mighty is his nature.
2. God is sovereign and does not depend on anyone..///I agree totally, because every evidence I have provided confirms Jesus is God.
3. God was not begotten.//Baal could not beget, Sango did not beget, Allah has no ability to beget, YHWH can beget. How Unique.
4; God has none like him // I agree and the bible supports this too.

5. God has knowledge of everything.// I agree and my God has knowledge of everything. He knows all the stars by their names and numbers. He even knows the numbers of every Hair on our head. Shows us evidence that Allah knows everything.

6. God does not change// The bible never teaches that God changed. It taught that God re-incarnated himself. Something no other God can do even Allah?

7. God never sleeps nor slumbers.// I agree totally. Jesus slept because he was also a man.

8. God is the only One that sits on THE HEAVENLY THRONE// you assume this because Islam depicts the throne of God as a chair and God as a man who needs a chair to sit. How downgrading.

9. God does not lie// YHWH never lied. Jesus never lied and the Quran confirmed this. But Quran 4:157 confirms that Allah is the best of deceivers. The Arabic word used is Khairun li Makiryina. So please differentiate between deceive and lie. See below evidence.
Qur'an 3:54"And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99"Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30"And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.

10. God can never have His God// I already explain this. See below Jesus as the creator.
John 1:1-3
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made..
My Opponent spent energy trying to argue that Jesus prayed to God and by that clearly shows his subjectivity to God.
Well The Sonship of Jesus is not physical, but one of role. This explains how he can be inferior to the Father in one sense, but still be equal to the Father in another. As an illustration, my father is superior to me in terms of role within the family, but he and I are equally human. I am inferior in role, but equal in substance. So is Jesus inferior in role to the Father because he stripped himself of his glory just to take the role of a servant., but equal in substance, since they are the same Being. Please be guided by the below scripture.
Philippians 2:5-7 KJV
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

All this been said, I will like to remind my opponent that he did not refute my claim of the Quran been eternal and Allah eternal. Should we considers both as two eternal entity following the fact that Quran existed before mankind.
My opponent did not make any emphasis why the Tawhid makes sense. He never explained it. Instead be only gave us what he assumed are the attributes of God not Allah. He didn't even refute the trinity in his rebuttals because he cannot logically counter my logic.
All his arguments were to attack the person of Christ and not the Trinity. I will expect his comments on this and the above.

I will also want my opponent to explain what Quran 3:54 teaches.

I await his rebuttal session.

Thank you
Debate Round No. 2



May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon my opponent and every reader reading this discussion.

I would want to to appreciate the Christian apologists who corrected me that ELOHIM is an Hebrew word and not a Greek word.I do take responsibility of this mistake due to me not proof-reading what I posted cos I have been down for days now with malaria. But come to think of it,Jelhill is still adamantly ignorant of the use of these words ELOHIM, WE, US. However, this is not an English class I don’t think I have the time to be teaching him personal pronouns (singular and plural) in standard modern English. Please go through these links to understand the meaning of Plural of magesty;;; and
He ignorantly said and I quote 'In my opponents local dialect, you don't use the term US when referring to yourself. It is only used when referring to another person or people. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the plural of majesty does not occur in Hebrew thus, this argument is completely baseless and should be abandoned'. In my local dialect bro, an elderly man can refer to himself or herself as 'AWA', as a form of respect to himself and this word could also be used to talk about himself and a group of people. Please stop deceiving people out of your ignorance. Queen Victoria you spoke of was the Queen of Great Britain in 1837 and not in the late 19th centuries bro.The use of plural words of respect existed in the biblical era. You can also check some William Shakespeare's literatures to see these words.

I challenged my opponent to show me where Jesus said explicitly I AM GOD or WORSHIP ME.He could not do this and he turned the tables around that I prove to him where Jesus said Í AM NOT GOD, OR DONT WORSHIP ME.I guess he does not read his Bible closely. Well dear readers, please read this chapter closely and see what Jesus said.
Revelation 22King James Version (KJV) And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

My opponent went further describing Jesus sitting at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD. He had the notion that sitting at the right hand of God depicts a place of authority, a place of honour; I agree. Every Muslim agrees Jesus is a mighty Prophet of God, a person of authority and a person of honour. But please let us apply reasoning and logic like you have always said, Is your right hand man you?...NO Someone sitting at the right hand of a throne is not the same as the person sitting on the throne…YES. Once again I would read it out to you so you apply reasoning Jesus sitting at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD. Does this mean Jesus is God?...NO

However, Jelhill clearly distinguishes God from Allah. Allah is God in Arabic translation just as Elohim, Eli, and Jehovah. If he is confused about this, he should pick an Arabic bible and look at the transliteration of Genesis 1 vs 1. If his confusion persists, ask any Arab Christian what God means in Arabic language. Let us look at the qualities of God you mentioned.

Dear readers, each round is a maximum of 10,000 words and we are already in the 3rd round. Have you not noticed something? My opponent has used 20,000 words and not for once has he talked about the HOLY SPIRIT. Has he forgotten about the topic already? He has always been keen on Jesus is God...Jesus is God. Has he forgotten the 3rd part of his Triune God? Oh I forgot...I have already dealt on that in my 2nd round using Revelations chapter 4.He still has no scriptural backing to prove TRINITY exists in the Bible. Let me make it juicier, let him show us where any verse looks like these words; GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT. Please watch as he would quote 1John 5 vs 7 which the Revised Standard Version showed that King James Version made grave errors and defects.

2. GOD IS SOVEREIGN AND DOES NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE: Jelhill says he agrees on this but he has failed to rebut this verse Jesus said of which he claimed he depends on God. John5 vs 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

3. GOD WAS NOT BEGOTTEN: My opponent failed or would I say he is ignorant of knowing how to define this quality. God was not begotten is quite different from he cannot beget. The idea of God cannot be begotten shows that God was not created because he created everything. According to the Bible, David was a begotten of God, Jesus too was, Isreal/ Ephraim was. This quality only refers to one thing GOD CANNOT HAVE HIS GOD.

4. GOD HAS NONE LIKE HIM: He agrees with this but does Jesus have other prophets like him? Yes. In terms of miraculous birth and creation Adam (Genesis 2 vs7) who neither had father nor mother, Melchizedek (Hebrews 7 vs 1-4) who also had no father or mother. In terms of his miracles, why did people not equate Moses too with God who at birth, all firstborn sons where killed among the Israelites and who was the SAVIOUR of his people from the Egyptians performing various miracles. So my brother, there lived other prophets like Jesus. Read below
Exodus 20 vs 2-5Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God

5 GOD HAS KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYTHING: Surprisingly Jelhill accepts. Has he forgotten Jesus didn’t know everything? Matthew 20 vs 20-23; Matthew 24 vs 36, Mark 13 vs 32, Jesus never even knew the season in which the fig tree was to bear fruit. He cursed the fig tree instead. Matthew 21 vs 18-19. You said I should prove it in the Quran if Allah knows everything...hmnn…I marvel at such are a few verses for you to read Qn 14 vs 38;10 vs 61; 6 vs 59-60; 31 vs 16; 35 vs 38; 11 vs 123; 20 vs 6-8; 34 vs 1-3; 57 vs 3-6; 39 vs 62-63; 11 vs 57; 6 vs 102, 6 vs 80. Please go through this link to know more

6 GOD DOES NOT CHANGE: jelhill accepts this but said God re-incarnated himself. Please check the meaning of re-incarnation Please also read John 4 vs 24 and compare with Malachi 3 vs 6 where God says he changeth not. So why would God come in flesh?

The concept and thought of the Quran being eternal is a different topic and digresses from the original topic.

7 GOD NEVER SLEEPS NOR SLUMBERS: This quality is derived from Psalm 121 vs 2-4. You only blaspheme that Jesus is God cos he slept Mark 4 vs 38, Matthew 8 vs 23 -27, therefore God changed.

8 GOD CAN NEVER HAVE HIS GOD; Because God is sovereign and was never created, why would God have his God.IS THERE ANYONE SUPERIOR TO GOD?...NO. What does ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI mean Matthew 27 vs 46, Read also, John 17:3, John 20:17, Acts 2:36;John;28;John 10;36;Acts2:22.

A clear distinction between Jesus and God the Most Merciful is clearly justified in Matthew 15:28.

Dear readers, You would continually see that I have been consistent in showing that God is One (Tauheed) and not a Triune God as many Christians think because this issue was inculcated in the Chritianity doctrine. No scriptural evidence till date proves GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT as One. Jesus is never the Holy Spirit as depicted in John 14 vs 15-31.

Ma salam



I want to give thanks to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Personal Saviour for the inspiration to be able to defend the Trinity.

I also thank my Opponent for his effort in ensuring that this debate took place. He is a gentleman with the desire to serve God. I look forward in debating him in the future on other topics.

When a Muslim apologist makes a big blunder like referring to Elohim as a Greek word and later corrected by another Christian apologist. That clearly shows that he has no idea and knowledge about the bible. He claimed it was a mistake. Well, the readers should be the judge on this as we have seen severally a lot of Bible critics misusing and confusing people on the terminologies of the bible, recently, Alhaji Yusuf Adepoju, the chief Lecturer of ACADIP publicly misinformed a large crowd that the word Parakletos is a Hebrew word.

What we have seen through out this debate session from my opponent is that much of his focus was on attacking Christ and not the Trinity. My opponent have noticed that he cannot disapprove The Trinity, instead he rather focus on a member of the Trinity and try to prove he is not God.

It is not surprising that my opponent cannot comprehend the Trinity. Even Allah in the Quran had no idea what the Trinity is. Allah referred to the Trinity as God, Jesus, Mary. Thus, my opponent is not accusing the Trinity from a Quranic point of view, instead he choose to apply his knowledge and opinion on the Trinity because he cannot rely on the Quran to to disapprove it since the Quran erroneously Classified the third member as mary and not Holy Spirit.

My opponent embarrassed himself again when he claimed that Queen Victoria ruled in 1837 and not 19th century as I claimed. It is not my problem that he does not understand centenary dating convention. The 19th century began from 1801-1900. Another flaw from my opponent. Anyway I forgive his ignorance on this.

He also maintained his claim that his local dialect has the plurality of respect as used in Genesis. Now let's exemplify this. An elderly man wants to say , I will marry when I turn 60 years old. Will he say, awa ma fe Iyawo ti abati pe omo odun ogota?. Is this the plurality of respect?.

It is easy for my eight year old niece to understand what the right hand of God means following my explanation during the rebuttals. However, my opponent has depicted God so much to be a physical entity that he wants me to explain how explain how possible it is to sit on Gods right hand. I already spent so much effort explaining this during my rebuttals. Please read carefully again,

Firstly, the Arabic word for God is Lah. I always maintain this position, the problem with Allah is not in the linguistic term, rather it is in the theological aspect. The Arabic bible uses the term Allah because every Arab assume Allah to be the name of God. However, when you read the Allah of the Arabic bible, He has a son, He is Trinity,. So you see clearly that Allah of the bible iis not the Allah of the Quran. Furthermore, we see that Mohammed pagan father (Abdullah meaning slave of Allah) worshipped Allah is a pagan God. The history of Allah is well documented. In order not to divert from the topic on ground, I challenge you to a debate on Who is Allah.

This aspect embarrassed my opponent so much that he reduced his 10 points to 8 points after his inability to prove to us that his God cannot lie. I stated clearly during rebuttals that my Allah is the best of deceivers, however, Mr .Funsho could not deny this instead he removed it from his 10 points attributes of God.

He was unable to explain what Quran 3:54 teaches.

My opponent could not explain to us the confusion in Islam monotheistic claims. I asked him twice to tell us if the Quran being an eternal book is separate from Allah. He could not answer this question, instead he ignored it twice.The dilemma here is that if the Quran is eternal and God is eternal, then we have two eternal entities. Islam clearly teach that Allah is the only eternal. So we have theological contradiction in Islam.

Through out this sessions, I have given evidence that the Trinity exists. Let us look at this closely again.
Jesus Christ gave us a command in how to baptize believers. Please note the following carefully.
Remember! Every word is important.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the

of the Father,
and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost:
(Matthew 28:19)
Did you note that the above verse said, "in the NAME" (singular) NOT in the NAMES of ... (plural)? The reason the writer of Matthew said "NAME" and not NAMES is because he knew that God was a TRI-UNITY and not three separate people or things.
Go back and read the verse again.
And this time note clearly every word that is used,
and not what you just thought was there.
Many modern perversions (including the New World Translation) which Muslim apologist love to use omit the following verse which clearly reveals God as a Trinity. Yet, from the clear statements above it is obvious that the Trinity should be there just as the Kind James Bible presents it.

For there are THREE that bear record in heaven,
the Father,
the Word,
and the Holy Ghost:
(1 John 5:7)
As a matter of fact, many perverted bibles omit this verse and say that it should not be there. However, according to other verses in the Bible there is NO CONTRADICTION or misuse of scripture by the King James translators. The modern versions are WRONG including the New World Translation. The TRINITY (TRI-UNITY) is a Bible doctrine and God clearly reveals this in His word.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
(Luke 3:22)
The Holy Spirit is a real person who came to reside within Jesus Christ's true followers after Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to heaven (Acts 2). Jesus told His apostles.

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:16-18). There is an allegation that this was referring to Mohammed.

The Holy Spirit is not a vague, ethereal shadow, nor an impersonal force. He is a person equal in every way with God the Father and God the Son. He is considered to be the third member of the Godhead. Jesus said to His apostles...

All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matt. 28:18-20)

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And all the divine attributes ascribed to the Father and the Son are equally ascribed to the Holy Spirit. When a person becomes born again by believing and receiving Jesus Christ (John 1:12-13; John 3:3-21), God resides in that person through the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 3:16). The Holy Spirit has intellect (1Cor. 2:11), emotion (Rom. 15:30), and will (1Cor. 12:11).

A primary role of the Holy Spirit is that He bears "witness" of Jesus Christ (John 15:26, 16:14). He tells people's hearts about the truth of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit also acts as a Christian's teacher (1Cor. 2:9-14). He reveals God's will and God's truth to a Christian. Jesus told His disciples..

The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (John 14:26

When He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." (John 16:13)

I love to talk much about Jesus because He is the major headache the Muslims have. I have severally highlighted in my previous posts where he claimed Divinity, and also explained why he does things like praying and calling unto the father."As we face the claims of Christ, there are only four possibilities if He was either a liar, mentally ill, a legend or the truth.

Now let us reason a little dear friend.
Is Jesus God? - possible explanations.

The question is, was he telling the truth?

Maybe Jesus lied when he said he was God. Perhaps he knew he was not God, but deliberately deceived his hearers to lend authority to his teaching. Few, if any, hold this position. Even those who deny his deity affirm that he was a great moral teacher. However they fail to realize those two statements are a contradiction. Jesus could hardly be a great moral teacher if, on the most crucial point of his teaching -his identity -- he was a deliberate liar.

Another possibility is that Jesus was sincere but self-deceived. We have a name for a person today who thinks he is God. Mentally disabled. But as we look at the life of Christ, we see no evidence of the abnormality and imbalance we find in a mentally ill person. Rather, we find the greatest composure under pressure.

A third alternative is that his enthusiastic followers put words into his mouth he would have been shocked to hear. Were he to return, he would immediately repudiate them. This theory has been significantly refuted by modern archeology. The four biographies of Christ were written within the lifetime of people who saw, heard and followed Jesus. These gospel accounts contained specific facts and descriptions confirmed by those who were eyewitnesses of Jesus. The early dating of the Gospels by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, is why they gained such circulation and impact, unlike the fictional Gnostic gospels which appeared centuries later.

Jesus was not a liar, or mentally disabled, or manufactured apart from historical reality. The only other alternative is that Jesus was consciously being truthful when he said he was God.

From one point of view, however, claims don't mean much. Talk is cheap. Anyone can make claims. There have been others who have claimed to be God. I could claim to be God, and you could claim to be God, but the question all of us must answer is, "What credentials do we bring to substantiate our claim?" In my case it wouldn't take you five minutes to disprove my claim. It probably wouldn't take too much more to dispose of yours.

But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, The Almighty, The rock of ages, the rose of sharon, the alpha and omega, it's not so simple. He had the credentials to back up his claim. He said, "Even though you do not believe me, believe the evidence of the miracles, that you may learn and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.

What else do we want. Kini atun fe.

To everyone reading this post, if Jesus said in John 14:6, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man commeth to the Father except through me. And Mohammed prayed to Allah to show him the truth, Ihidina sirata limustaqeen. Who will you follow.

I have chosen Christ because he is the way. Choose wisely, Choose Christ.

I pray that the grace of the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the LOVE OF GOD, and the communion of the HOLY SPIRIT be with you all. Amen.
(2 Cor 13:14)
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
>Reported vote: harrytruman// Mod action: Removed<

7 point to Con. Reasons for voting decision: ALLAH IS SATAN! Unholy Qur'an 2:223: "Wives are dirt treat them however you want." Unholy Qur'an 4:34: "Beat your wives, it's fun"Unholy Qur'an 9:111: "Steal, Kill, Destroy."

[*Reason for removal] Not an RFD. The voter just presents his own argument for a vote on an entirely unrelated topic.
Posted by funshoanimashaun 1 year ago
I would want to commend my opponent for being quite a gentleman, who has in no form used any word of insult or disrespect.It shows his xter of decurum.Please permit me dear readers...i would be posting for the second round tomorrow as i am currently down with malaria and the drugs i used have been making me sleep all day. My opponent Jelhill is aware of this and he quite understands...please stay tuned....

Ma salam
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