The Instigator
tigercat789
Pro (for)
The Contender
CuriousFear
Con (against)

Is God a Trinity?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 307 times Debate No: 95476
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

tigercat789

Pro

This round will be used for introductions and definitions.
In this debate I will be arguing in favor of the doctrine of the trinity , that doctrine being that God is made up of 3 co-existing persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who are each fully God, but are not each other.

I ask my opponent to please be courteous and polite in their argument. And I will do the same.
CuriousFear

Con

Hello and peace be with you.
I'm a Muslim and I strongly disagree with the trinitarian concept of God. The Qur'an denounces the trinity specifically in chapter 5.

Those who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," have defied God. The Messiah himself said; "Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers. Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are. (Al-Maida verse 72-75)

And also in

People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'"stop, that is better for you"God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust. (An-Nisa verse 171)

So you get the idea. I'm a Muslim and I believe that Jesus [may peace be upon him] was a prophet of Allah.
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Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by nizohio 2 months ago
nizohio
@mindshot

Addendum:

Bear in mind that I was not talking about God QUALITATIVELY, but QUANTITATIVELY since THREE is a number. So, just as you and me are HUMAN QUALITATIVELY, but QUANTITATIVELY we're TWO humanS.
Posted by nizohio 2 months ago
nizohio
@mindshot

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Though when I looked up "persona" in the dictionary, it doesn't say plural for person, I shall accept your definition of persona which is just plural for person.

So, in other words, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit (or Ghost as in the KJV and the Greek NT) make up ONE God. So, in this GROUP of God, each person possesses a share of 1/3 of God each. This means that Jesus is just 1/3 of God, the Father is just another third, and the HS is another third of God.
Posted by CuriousFear 2 months ago
CuriousFear
If anyone would still want to debate this topic with me they can challenge me.
Posted by Mindshot 2 months ago
Mindshot
In the context of discussing the transcendental theology of the Trinity, more precise language helps to better understand and articulate this theology. The word "subsistence" literally means "to stand under". The root word in "subsistence" is "sisto" which means to "stand". The prefix being "sub" or rather "under". The Trinity is defined to be one Deity (God) in essence (God is monotheistic or One God), but three in person or subsistence.

In other words, There is one God, subsistent in three persons and each person having unique attributes, but still one God in essence or being. Persona is a real word in the english dictionary, which is plural for person.
Posted by nizohio 2 months ago
nizohio
@mindshot

You're actually using what seems to be big words that are actually meaningless. What are subsistences? What are subdistinctions? As I'm typing those words here on Firefox, they are actually red-wavy-lined. And you said they are three personas, what does THAT mean? That they're just three ROLES? They're not actual persons?
Posted by nizohio 2 months ago
nizohio
@mindshot

You're actually using what seems to be big words that are actually meaningless. What are subsistences? What are subdistinctions? As I'm typing those words here on Firefox, they are actually red-wavy-lined. And you said they are three personas, what does THAT mean? That they're just three ROLES? They're not actual persons?
Posted by Mindshot 2 months ago
Mindshot
No, they are not separate God's. the three persona of God are subsistences of one God. The prefix "sub" lierrerly means "under", so they are sub-distinctions within the essence of God.
Posted by nizohio 2 months ago
nizohio
@mindshot

so you're saying that each person is fully God (qualitatively) because they have the essence of God. so, can we say that Jesus is A god the holy spirit is A god? why or why not?

If Jesus is God qualitatively, meaning he has the essence of God, then we could say that Jesus is A God, just as YOU, who has the essence of man, are called A man.
Posted by Mindshot 2 months ago
Mindshot
The Christian Doctrine of the Trinity teaches that their is one God in essence, but three in person. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three subsistences of the diety of the one God, yet all three are fully God. It doesn't teach that if we have within us the nature of God, we are then God. If we have the nature of God in us it would be the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Nevertheless, there are distinctions between the three persons of the Trinity, each persona of the Godhead posing distinct attributes. These distinctions are not essential, not of the essence. They are real, but they do not disturb the essence of deity. The distinctions within the Godhead are, if you will, sub-distinctions within the essence of God. He is one essence, three subsistences. That is about as close as we can get to articulating the historic doctrine of the Trinity.
Posted by nizohio 2 months ago
nizohio
@mindshot, when you say each of them is fully God, do you mean qualitatively or quantitatively? If you mean qualitatively, can we say that Jesus is A god, and the HS is A god? Why or why not?

If Jesus is God qualitatively, meaning someone who has the nature of God, that would mean that he is A God, just as YOU who has the nature of man would be called A man.
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