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Is God really the god guy and the Devil the bad guy, or vice versa?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,553 times Debate No: 84870
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (1)




Round 1: Debater's views
Round 2: Why we believe our positions
Round 3:Final arguments

Hello, I am looking for a casual debate about religion, specifically Christianity, and philosophy. Ever since I thought about it when I was a child, I have been bugged by an extremely deep question about God and Satan. What if the bible was a lie and simply propaganda. God was actually evil and the Devil was actually the good guy who has been framed? I am looking for a casual debate with someone and I would prefer if they were not extreme christian or Aiethiest.


I would first like to thank my opponent for the opportunity to debate on this topic. I also would like to wish my opponent luck in their efforts.

My opponent will be trying to prove that “God is bad and Satan is good,” which they clarified in the comment section of this debate. So naturally I will be promoting that God is good while Satan is bad. Since this is a “debate about religion, specifically Christianity,” I will rely on the Bible as one of my primary sources. Without any further introduction, let's begin.


Does Hebrew give us any insight on this topic? Absolutely! Psalm 83:18 reads:
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (KJV)

So we have a name for the God of the Bible, which is Jehovah. However, this can be rendered as Yahweh. In the Hebrew, it is represented as YHWH. This name can mean performer of his promises” [1]. So what are some of the promises made by Jehovah? Well, 2 Peter 3:13 tells us that “according to his [Jehovah's] promise,” we can look forward to a “new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (KJV). Psalm 37: 10, 11 tell us that “the wicked shall not be.
As well, it tells us that “the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace” (KJV).

However, the Hebrew word “satan” means “adversary” [2]. We all know that an adversary is someone who is an opponent. Someone who conflicts and contests with another. Therefore, Satan is an opponent of someone who makes promises of peace. He conflicts and contests with someone who is promising righteousness. Does this sound like a good person, or an evil one?

What does the Bible say?

We all know that there is a lot of evil in this world. Murder, rape, theft, etc. Does all of this evil reflect the evil nature of God? Or does it reflect the evil nature of Satan? Well, let's see what the Bible has to say on the topic:

2 Corinthians 4:4
- “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (KJV)

1 John 5:9
- “We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one.” (ASV)

We can gather that Satan is indeed the “god of this world.” We can also gather that the “whole world lieth in the [hands of] the evil one.” Therefore, the evil in this world is a reflection of the rulership of Satan, not Jehovah.

James 1:13
- “When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me.' For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;” (KJV)

Job 34: 10-12
- “So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong. He repays everyone for what they have done; he brings on them what their conduct deserves. It is unthinkable that God would do wrong,” (KJV)

So what can we gather from the above two verses? We can gather that God is never the source of wickedness in the world.

Now, let's consider what the serpent, who is Satan (Rev. 20:2), said to Eve in the garden of Eden. This dialog occurs in Genesis 3:1-4, which read:
“Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?

And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat:
but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:” (ASV)

Upon examination of the above verses, we can see that Satan starts by questioning Eve with “hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?” She answers by relaying what Jehovah said, which was that that they can eat from any tree, “but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” What does Satan say to her next? He tells her that “ye shall not surely die.” This was quite obviously a lie, was it not? Adam and Eve are certainly not here anymore, as they have been dead for thousands of years. Therefore, this further confirms that Satan has evil intentions by deceiving others to oppose God. He does this regardless of the consequences for himself and others.



Debate Round No. 1


I would like to thank my opponent , Testor, for excepting this debate. He has given several good reasons for why God is good, however, all of his sources came from the Bible, which like I said earlier, could not be telling the whole truth or could just be flat out lying. The following are my contentions and why I believe my side of the argument.
So in the time of Adam and eve, the devil gave us critical thinking, which God didn't want us to have. He forbade us to eat from the tree of knowledge so that we would basically be thought slaves for all of eternity, but the devil did us a favor and turn the tables instantly when he convinced eve and Adam to eat that one Apple. The devil also killed about 10 people in the entire book from what I could tell, and that's after I read several Bibles. Meanwhile, God killed around 2.3 million people by destroying the city of Sodum, Gomorrah, causing Noah's flood, the plaques in Egypt, and creating several predators and diseases that God created like malaria and mosquitoes. God also only accepts people Who mindlessly obey him as slaves with their master would. The devil however, understands human nature, but doesn't cast judgment upon us for being human. He accepts God's children unconditionally. but why doesn't he try to cast him self in a better light? because he can take it, unlike God, which I will explain in the next round if Tstor is fine with it.


My opponent raises some good points, but he does the very thing that he accuses me of doing. I agree that I have used the Bible as a primary source, as this is the only real authority we have on the Biblical God and Satan. My opponent must recognize this as he speaks about Adam and Eve, the tree of knowledge, number of people killed in the Bible (and by what), etc. So I do not see why it is an issue for me to use the Bible as my primary source when my opponent also uses the same source.

1) Did Satan give us the capacity of critical thinking?
My opponent stated that “the devil [Satan] gave us critical thinking, which God didn't want us to have.” I would like to know where this is coming from, as the Bible does not teach it. Satan lied to Adam and Eve by saying that they would not die like God said they would. As well, their rebellion also reveals something about God's creation: they have free will. Satan also has free will, hence why he has been able to rebel against God. In fact, what do we know about God through Satan's challenge to his authority? We know more about his sense of justice. God does not immediatly put down Satan and his rebellion, rather he decides that time is needed to prove Satan to be a liar. We can see through Satan's corrupt rulersip that he is indeed a liar.

Does the Bible encourage critical thought? Absolutely! Consider Acts 17:11, which reads:
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”(KJV)

2) How many people has Satan killed?
My opponent stated that “the devil also killed about 10 people in the entire book from what I could tell.” In reality, all deaths that we witness on this earth are a reflection of who? Who is ruling this world? As I stated in round one, Satan is the ruler of this world, so the evil that is in this world is a reflection of his rulership. However, what about the good in the world? God has told us to do good things, like be charitable, love our enemies, etc. Satan does not advise us to do those things. Rather, as he is in opposition of God (see round one), he promotes the opposite of these things.

3) How many people have died because of God?
My opponent has stated that “God killed around 2.3 million people.” I have not done the math myself, so I have no idea how accurate this number is. However, even though Jehovah is a God of love, he is also a God of holiness, righteousness, and justice.
At times, such qualities compel him to use his destructive power. Consider this idea in light of Isaiah 59:15-19, which read:
“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the
Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
o shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.” (KJV)

4) Does God demand his followers to be mindless slaves?

My opponent stated that God “only accepts people Who mindlessly obey him as slaves with their master would.” Is this true? As I have already shown, Acts 17:11 tells us otherwise:
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”(KJV)

They were not mindlessly obeying God. Rather, they were eager to find truth and examine what they were being told to see if it was true.

Debate Round No. 2


As we move into the final round, I will bring up one last short topic, and then summarize my side of the debate. So my final point is how the Christian church has been, up until the 21st century, ruling with fear, while there are no widely known demonic churches who have ruled with fear.

To start, the Christian church stalled scientific advancement because they believed that science was related to black magic, and therefor heresy. When Marco Polo discovered matches in India, the church burned him alive with them because instant fire was heresy. To start the fire, they used the old way of rubbing two stick together to avoid being hypocrites. When Leonardo Divinci said that the earth and the other planets revolved around the sun, not the other way around, the church placed him under arrest with threat of exception if he didn"t stop saying that. When Charles Darwin created his theory of evolution after visiting the glapacose islands, the church again put him under house arrest with threats of death because his theory went against what the church said, which in turn would have weakened them. If the Christian church really does support being kind and nice and tolerant, why were they violent and ruling through fear? The 4 crusades, spread across a few hundred years, for example, is one good example of how the Christian church, who supposedly do whatever God tells them to do, waged war for no good reason other then to supposedly spread Christianity to the middle east very violently. If God really is peaceful, then why did he allow this? And then finally, if you had something the church wanted, they could simply extirpate you from the church so that you would then lose everything to the church, which would then strengthen them. If the Christian God supposedly isn"t greedy and the church followed his ten commandments to the letter, why did they do it? And why did he let them get away with it?

I don"t know about you, but I can"t think of any churches that support Satan, especially ones that did all that in the previous paragraph. But, I know what you are thinking, "But what about satanic cults that practice sacrifice?" I will say that they are cults. Cults are a group of religious fanatics. Fanatics are crazy and violent religious people, by definition in the dictionary.

Now that I have stated my reasons about why God isn"t that great or all cracked up as the bible says he is, and why Lucifer is NOT the vile, evil monster that the bible also states that he is, I will let my opponent, Tstor, have a turn. Good luck and good sportsmanship!


I would like to point out that stating “Christian church” is meaningless. Which “church” is my opponent referring to? Judging by the examples he gave, it would seem to be the Catholic Church. However, I am not trying to support the position that the Catholic Church is God's Church here on earth. It very well could be the Eastern Orthodox Church, the LDS Church, the Coptic Church, etc. It is off topic, really. So until my opponent provides proof that the “Christian church” he is referring to (more than likely the Catholic Church) is a reflection of God, then I have nothing to refute. My opponent asks the question that “if God really is peaceful, then why did he allow this [atrocities by the Catholic Church]?” Well, as I have previously stated, there is no reason to believe that the actions of the Catholic Church are a reflection of God. However, there is a difference between allowing something to happen and making something happen. We were created with free will, so God allows us to do many things. Liken it to a child running away from home and then being killed in the night. Is it the parent's fault for the child sneaking off in the night unprovoked? Not at all. Similarly, it is not God's fault if someone does somethng evil. Especially when you consider that Satan is the ruler of this world (see previous rounds).

That is all I really have to say in regards to my opponent's argument. Overall, this was an interesting and fun debate. I would like to thank my opponent again for allowing me the opportunity to debate on this topic.

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
Lol don't be dissing on his opinions! But yeah both Pro can Con are correct and incorrect. Yes Pro does need to prove God is evil as he never accomplished that. But Con didn't place hard enough points to show God is good. It is simply a matter of people viewing this world as the end or not. In this debate we are naturally going with God is real whether you are Atheist or not and so we should all accept that in this debate everything God has done is true aswell. He made you and me, even if Pro thinks that the bible is "propaganda" he can't refute the fact he made us and didn't make us to be slaves. We are here today with free will, happy times and sad times. Secondly we must realize this is like being in a time out as we sinned, yet it is a very generous time out because he lets us have so many toys withhold being grounded as well as talk and hang out with each other. The third point to show God is good and merciful is that the fact he didn't throw us in hell immediately! He could have thrown everyone who disobeyed him in hell but he didn't, there is only one obvious reason for this and it is that he loves us. This is something not even a Satanist could refute. Even if the entire bible was propaganda the very fact that God is good and gave us free will in the beginning shows even today. And yes I do believe God gave us free will and not Satan. Satan gave a motive aka a temptation but even without Satan I believe as humanity expanded there would have been more motives causing us to sin anyway. The 'Tree' could have been metaphorical for the action of going against God, he told us that he would love and protect us but we betrayed him and betrayed each other. The argument Satan is evil: he is no worse than us, just as Eve convinced Adam to eat of the fruit, Satan convinced Eve. The very next generation Cane killed his brother. In a sense Satan caused the first death and is at fault for every horror following that point. But it's our free will and we are bad as well.
Posted by RainbowDash52 2 years ago
It is weird this question is still being asked in 2016, but the show is actually enjoyable for all age groups, kinda like Disney movies. Have you actually seen the show? because it is actually really good (talking about the friendship is magic series, not to be confused with the older generations that were actually bad)
Posted by raskuseal 2 years ago
Not to intrude or anything, But why do you like MLP? You are a fully grown man, and my little pony is for 6- year old girls. It seems kinda.......Awkward. Please enlighten me as to why this is.
Posted by RainbowDash52 2 years ago

Something being unlikely does justify an assumption. The burden of proof is not set to 100%, so probability can be taken into consideration.
Posted by tstor 2 years ago

I was not claiming that God killed in self defense, but he was known to kill in defense of others. Something being unlikely does not justify an assumption. People try and prove someone is worthy of dying all the time in court, but that is not the point I was raising. My point is that Pro did not show how killing inherently made God evil.
Posted by RainbowDash52 2 years ago

God doesn't need to kill for self defense because he is God, so self defense doesn't defend God's kills. It is extremely unlikely that every person killed in the flood deserved capital punishment. Also you can't prove someone did not do anything worthy of dying since you can't prove a negative, so it is unreasonable to expect Pro to be the one to prove the killings were unjustified. But you could have given an example of something those who were killed by God did to deserve to die, but you did not.

Try killing someone and use "not all killing is bad" as your only defense and tell me how it goes.
Posted by tstor 2 years ago

I do not need to address individual killings so long as I show that killing is not inherently bad. Most people would agree that killing is not inherently bad on a personal level, such as in the instance of self defense or capital punishment. However, the debate was not on the morality of killing.

Pro did not show how those killings made God evil, therefore he was implying that killing alone makes someone evil. I do not accept that idea and showed why.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
Well I will admit from an outside view without pre knowledge like I had gotten then Rainbow Dash is correct in a tie as for someone undecided it may still seem undecided. Lol but this is just a small debate all that we need to know is in our hearts God is good.
Posted by raskuseal 2 years ago
And yes, the numbers are probably wrong on my side of the debate. I didn't pay too much attention with a magnifying glass and I made some general assumptions, such as the amount of people back then, as there wasn't some sort of accurate census I could fine.
Posted by raskuseal 2 years ago
I agree, I probably should have adjusted parts of my argument, but for the sake of the question I thought it was fairly good. I think it was good to get input about how other people think about it. So love it, hate it, doesn't matter in the end. As long as people can think independently and freely, it's fine with me.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RainbowDash52 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments