The Instigator
godrulz
Pro (for)
The Contender
steve45
Con (against)

Is God timeless or does He experience endless time (new attempt)?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 239 times Debate No: 100853
Debate Rounds (4)
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godrulz

Pro

Since the last 'con' simply bashed the concept of God in one sentence, I am looking for a mature, informed person to try this debate again. Is there a way to not accept a debate from a spammer?

The traditional view suggests that God is strongly immutable, impassible, timeless, etc. Not all tradition is truth. I would suggest this view came later and is from Plato, Augustine, Aristotle, Aquinas, Boethius, etc. I would suggest that endless time (duration, sequence, succession) is Hebraic, biblical, coherent and will have implications for omniscience, foreknowledge, prayer, etc. Related issues of Einstein/relativity, etc. factor in, but are measures and perceptions of time the same as philosophical, fundamental time?

For theists and secular philosophers, this is a wide open, technical debate. From a Christian view, I would agree more with Nicholas Wolterstorff, J.R. Lucas, etc. with William Lane Craig's view of timeless before creation/temporal after creation being better than strictly timeless views.

Biblical support exists, but godly philosophy/thinking will also be necessary to have an informed view since the Bible is not explicit on all theological/philosophical issues.
steve45

Con

Fist let me start with the definition of time.
A point of time as measured in hours and minutes past midnight or noon.

In the Bible it says God is everything the creator of everything even time itself in fact he is past and present nothing is beyond him he is creator.

Going forth with your questions he is neither timeless or experience endless time because he is time itself .
Debate Round No. 1
godrulz

Pro

I think a definition of time as a concept is far more technical than saying it is a measure of hours/minutes past 12. Time and unique measures of time are not identical concepts.

The Bible does not say God created everything. God did not create the computers we type on. God initially created the universe and humans and life. It does not say He created time. He did create unique measures of time (sun, moon, stars), but not time itself. Confusing measures of time with time itself is a category mistake.
Time is duration, sequence, succession whether it is measured or not (and not limited to our clocks or minutes/hours....what about seconds?). God experienced endless duration from eternity past, present, and will continue to exist endlessly into the future (Rev. 1:4).

I have never heard anyone say God is time itself. God experiences time as an aspect of His reality. The options are Him being timeless (eternal now simultaneity) or endless duration. If you are taking a 3rd position, what credible thinker has argued for it and how? I am not aware of any. You are making assertions, but providing no argumentation or evidence for it.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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