The Instigator
godrulz
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
BGreeneID
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Is God timeless or does He experience endless time?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
godrulz
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 869 times Debate No: 100837
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (33)
Votes (2)

 

godrulz

Pro

The traditional view suggests that God is strongly immutable, impassible, timeless, etc. Not all tradition is truth. I would suggest this view came later and is from Plato, Augustine, Aristotle, Aquinas, Boethius, etc. I would suggest that endless time (duration, sequence, succession) is Hebraic, biblical, coherent and will have implications for omniscience, foreknowledge, prayer, etc. Related issues of Einstein/relativity, etc. factor in, but are measures and perceptions of time the same as philosophical, fundamental time?

For theists and secular philosophers, this is a wide open, technical debate. From a Christian view, I would agree more with Nicholas Wolterstorff, J.R. Lucas, etc. with William Lane Craig's view of timeless before creation/temporal after creation being better than strictly timeless views.

Biblical support exists, but godly philosophy/thinking will also be necessary to have an informed view since the Bible is not explicit on all theological/philosophical issues.
BGreeneID

Con

there is no god. religion is a disgusting cult
Debate Round No. 1
godrulz

Pro

Why are there so many immature, ignorant, arrogant people ruining debates. Finish responding, so I can start again with a mature person who sticks to the topic.

IF there was a God, would He be timeless or temporal? Even atheistic philosophers are interested in this question.
BGreeneID

Con

There is no god, therefore your debate is just another disgusting attempt to instill religion on a secular site. Why do YOU have to troll us with this nonsense?
Debate Round No. 2
godrulz

Pro

Saying there is no God is a claim that you are not making argumentation for. I did not know this is a secular site since it has a philosophy and religion section that theists would have a place at the table to make an argument. The debate is not about whether God exists, but is for those who would inquire about how an eternal God relates to time/eternity. Theistic and atheistic thinkers speculate on this (if there is a god, then...).

Why would you engage in a debate just to mock and discredit? This is ignorant and immature. These topics are allowed here and of interest to people who can think, not just beg the question.

Is there a way to refuse to allow a con to participate when they are just being a troll?
BGreeneID

Con

go f*ck yourself
Debate Round No. 3
godrulz

Pro

Don't be a mental midget.
BGreeneID

Con

Go f*ck yourself bible thumping racist white trump lover
Debate Round No. 4
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by godrulz 1 year ago
godrulz
Evidence, we are finite creatures. Mind is not infinite, except the mind of God.
Posted by Evidence 1 year ago
Evidence
Greetings godrulz, you said:

Answer: This is the point of the debate. I dispute that God is outside of time, but that it is an eternal aspect of His personal experience. Time is not a created thing, not space, not a place, not a line. Saying He is outside of time is a spatial analogy, a category confusion.

Sorry, I phrased it wrong, you are correct that God is not outside of time, meaning like I am outside of my house. What I meant to say is that time is within Infinite and Eternal Creator, like all His creation is including His Son Word. Time is meaningless for Infinite.

I affirm the Deity of Christ. He is I AM (self-existent; Jehovahistic identity). He is Alpha and Omega, titles of Deity that show His eternality. Neither expression means that God is timeless. They mean He is eternal without beginning or end, not timeless, but divine unqualified temporality (duration). We have to prove or disprove this with other verses and arguments, not a proof text that can be claimed by both sides.

Yes timeless, as in Eternal, but not divine, nor is He a diviner:
Diviner
1. a person who practices divination,
soothsayer
2 a person who divines the location of water or minerals

You: We are finite and our person, spirit, mind, soul, body is actually in time/temporal, not timeless.
Mind is not physical, but it is not timeless.

No, our mind/spirit is infinite, while the body/brain is finite. Time is the result of death, once death is abolished, time is irrelevant.

You: Time is not like space, but spatial events can be located with a time referent.

Me: Time is like space, and Infinite and Eternal is the opposite.

Einstein has application for affects of gravity on clocks, perceptions of time with motion, etc. (measures of time/physical, not absolute, philosophical time I would debate....another category confusion). God has revealed Himself in space-time through creation, Christ, Scripture. False religions are invented by men.

relativity is a hoax.
Posted by godrulz 1 year ago
godrulz
BGreeneID: I am Canadian so I do not have a horse in the race with Trump. I guess your profanity means you concede the debate and can only come up with argumentum ad hominem, not sound argumentation.
Posted by godrulz 1 year ago
godrulz
Begreene is ignorant and immature. I have given him some thoughts. If he denies the existence of God and mocks basic truth, he is not ready or willing to receive the gospel and his blood is not on my hands. Seriously? The debate was a point of interest that is not irrelevant and a tiny part of my overall witness, apologetics, evangelism, etc. You should be attacking him, not me.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
godrulz;
I leave you to the mess of your own creation, may you and BGreeneID, be very happy together, but he will learn nothing from you, cause you HAVE nothing to offer, except your own thoughts. Pity ... when he awakens in Hell, will his blood "BE" accounted too YOU?

no doubt we ALL have some eh? What do you say WE allow no one ELSES blood upon ourselves for want of Biblical knowledge and direction. Sup too you?
Bye!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
godrulz;
Ohh I see. Sunday school then. you did NOT speak in Love, you spoke in biblical illiteracy. Big difference. You exalted the self, not the lord. Now you fall back on the innocence routine, the don't blame me routine. We are the children of the most high, act like it. We preach a gospel of consequence, not a gospel of try God on for size and see if he fits. God bows to no one, Neither does He compromise His righteousness, justice or Holiness.

You are responsible for KNOWING Gods Word, NOT your own. You owe it to us all to preach an unadulterated version of the gospel of Christ, a pure representation of the Living word.

Contrary to Theologist out there, Christ spoke to point and without timidity. It was Christ Himself who chewed out the Pharisee 's calling them Hypocrites, and children of Satan, pit of vipers, blind leading the blind.

Perhaps you should see just how many loving ways YOU can find to say those things to leaders who of a Religious body?

Don't want to be hated for Christ .... I get it. Don't want to be objectionable.... okay I get it, don't want to rock the boat, Fine, don't want to be confrontational we all get it. Then "Why" are you even here?

God says we will be HATED for His names sake? Sorry but I don't see anyone hating, people who grovel, before men, like you and those other loving people your talking about?

John the Baptist was imprisoned for telling Herod he was an adulterer, for calling His wife a whore? The Apostles were run through, beheaded, stoned , crucified for spreading The word of God? Don't look now, but that IS NOT what your preaching at all is it?

Wasn't it Christ Himself who stood on a mountain LOOKED at the thousands and said, " anyone who will come after me, must deny himself, take up his cross and follow Me"

AFTER everyone had left .... was it not also Christ who looked at the Apostles and said, will you now leave me too? So tell me ..... WILL YOU?
Posted by godrulz 1 year ago
godrulz
I am new to this group and apparently there are immature, arrogant, ignorant people here. We can speak truth in love, defend and proclaim truth, etc. Your simplistic mentality is not helping the cause. I have found mature, loving, balanced Christians here, including my first debate.
Don't waste your breath being self-righteous. It is not my first rodeo.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
As a matter of thought,
This may not be true, BUT I'm convinced that atheist ARE required to remain on Religion Section as a punishment from God. Think about it? They hate God, they aggressively attack believers of God, they become miserable over the subject of God. What could be More appropriate than for God to FORCE THEM to remain in Religion Sections to HEAR Gods Word, everyday of their miserable lives.

I've talked with multiple atheist and without fail, they ALL appear to be oblivious to their HAVING TO BE HERE. They actually make up all manner of excuses as to WHY they MUST be here. They literally WANT to be here, can you believe that?

Imagine being on a mechanics section, and having ZERO interest in mechanics? Honestly YOU wouldn't be there, and you KNOW you wouldn't, but ..... not the atheist? He WANTS TO BE HERE. " Why" to hear Gods word? To Hear of Hell? To listen to the sentence of eternal separation from God? To listen to Gods, anger towards them? To listen to the second death of the Lake of Fire and eternal suffering in flames, that are never ceasing? I mean which topic do YOU think keeps them here?

Maybe .... just maybe, they DONT HAVE a choice? Think about it?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
godrulz;
"Why" do you debate children? Unbelievers, when you yourself are Biblically illiterate. Certainly you show no knowledge of scriptural understanding? Do you study the word? Or is Sunday school, pretty much it? I say this because you are being held accountable for those you lead astray by your illiteracy even if you don't mean too.

Are you familiar with Ezekiel 3?

Because while your wasting time on useless subjects, people are dying in their sins, and YOU are being held accountable for their blood? Do you know this?

Ezekiel 3
18 When I say to a wicked person, "You will surely die," and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[b] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.

Perhaps you should return to your studies till your better prepared to actually lead sinners to Christ, instead of just give them something to occupy their time with, till they die and end up in Hell.

Sup to you.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
godrulz;
While your at that, please place here:______________________________.
The scriptures that TELL YOU to BE intellectual. To LEAN on your OWN understanding. To VALUE self expression.

I've yet to SEE you demonstrating any of the scriptural requirements of a Follower of Christ. You don't appear Biblically literate? Why do you not know of the scriptures which require you to die to yourself? To lean not to your own understanding. To avoid subjects that are pointless?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by DNehlsen 1 year ago
DNehlsen
godrulzBGreeneIDTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguer pro made an opening statement for his case. Arguer con made no refutation or argument, thus looses convincing arguments. Con failed to use proper grammar in his short, aggressive responses. Con also loses conduct and grammar points because of this.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
godrulzBGreeneIDTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Twice, Con told Pro to fck himself. This is poor conduct.