The Instigator
Vertigo
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
iTruthSeeker
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Is God worse than Satan?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
iTruthSeeker
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 414 times Debate No: 85588
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

Vertigo

Pro

When you generally think about it, Satan was described as a roaring lion who prowled the earth is a deadly lust, looking for those to devour but in what the Bible described, is just his continuous temptations for disobedeience.

While God, puts up many to gory tasks when he wasnt up for it himself. Such as Jesus's crucifiction. While I am not here to put down your religion (I AM A CHRISTIAN MYSELF.) but have you actually reaseoned God's brutal reasons?

God sent bears to kill childeren ((4 Kings 2:23-24)), Turning Lot's wife in to salt ((Genesis 19:26)) for breaking a rule she didnt even know she had to obey, hating 'ugly' people ( (Leviticus 21:17-24)), Trying to kill Moses ((Exodus 4:24-26)), Commiting ALOT of genocide, Odering his 'underlings' to kill their own childeren ((Genesis 22:1-12))

There are some truly, horriffic stories in the Bible which we plenty enjoy to ignore.
iTruthSeeker

Con

Hello! I will be arguing that God is not like Satan whatsoever. In order to fully understand each side of the argument we must understand who Satan and God is according to biblical doctrine..

Satan:
a fallen angel, the root of all evil. He led 1/3 of all of Gods angels in reblelion agianst God and later took humanity with him. He is the current "god of this age"(Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. 2 Cor 4:4). He is a liar and a deciever (Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44)

God:

There is but one only,[1] living, and true God,[2] who is infinite in being and perfection,[3] a most pure spirit,[4] invisible,[5] without body, parts,[6] or passions;[7] immutable,[8]immense,[9] eternal,[10] incomprehensible,[11] almighty,[12] most wise,[13] most holy,[14] most free,[15] most absolute;[16] working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will,[17] for His own glory;[18] most loving,[19] gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;[20] the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him;[21] and withal, most just, and terrible in His judgments,[22] hating all sin,[23] and who will by no means clear the guilty.[24]



As you can see, these beings are completly distinct. Satan is wholly evil, God is wholly good... So why then is God seen comitting appaling acts in the Old Testimant? Is he not the same or even worse then Satan? Lets me make this point clear....

If God is worse then Satan then God by definition is evil! I dont think CapAhab really understands the implication of this since the Christian conception of God would be false.. Therby undermining his self proclaimed faith! Nontheless, let me lay out 2 contentions as to why this assertion is false..

1). God's seemingly horrific acts are based in His nature of perfect justice and perfect wrath.

2). Satans acts throughout the Bible are according to his evil nature

Therefore, God is not worse then Satan because His acts are based on his perfectly moral nature while Satan's are not


I will not rebut any of my opponents objections untill next round in the respect of keep the argument fair.

Sources:
http://www.reformed.org...

Debate Round No. 1
Vertigo

Pro

Thanks for actually replying, and not leaving this unanswered. Your statements totally cleared up the thoughts that I had.

Satan is directly opposite of God's character, for sure, and Satan was named of all "evil" yet, what did he exactly do?
He tempted, sure, and was a fallen angel because what he did was wrong in God's name? In the not yet written rule book?
We are expected to OBEY God's orders, when in a way, Satan gives us a free will, being able to reject the temptation.

God uses brutal forces and threats. Is this how we're supposed to be put in check? To live in fear?

It was stated in the [19] Definition that God is merciful, but how exactly is his actions proved to be MERCIFUL?
In no way, was turning Lot's wife into salt (Genesis) merciful, when she was unaware of the rules.

In the beginning, Satan wasn't evil, he wasn't a misconception and was one of God's most wonderful creations, and when God saw a mistake and he made him a fallen angel. This proposed that...God is flawed? Not absolutely perfect.
Jesus, the son of god was created with absolute perfection, yet it was never mentioned of God's imperfections.

In a way, if Satan wrote a bible, there would be two different stories, and its like a pick and choose.
God could say Satan was evil, and God is good, while one would claim that Satan.
(probably irrelevant)

How are his 'merciful' actions justified..?
iTruthSeeker

Con

Thanks again to my opponent for responding with his first rebuttal, I assume that these questions are held by many and I will do my best to respond fairly... In that regard, lets boogy.

I want to begin by referring to my first contention, that is:

1). God's seemingly horrific acts are based in His nature of perfect justice and perfect wrath.

My opponent states: God is merciful, but how exactly is his actions proved to be MERCIFUL?
In no way, was turning Lot's wife into salt (Genesis) merciful, when she was unaware of the rules.?

His statement actually is riddled with false misconceptions. In fact, Lots wife WAS warned by an angel of the Lord to not look back to Sodom and Gomorrah ( As they fled, the angels warned them, “Escape for your life! Do not look behind you, and do not stay anywhere in the valley; escape to the mountains, or you will be swept away” (Genesis 19:17)). Her being turned into a pillar of salt does not reflect the injustice of God but rather, reflects the consequences of Lots wife not listening to the angels warning.

My opponent then states: "hating 'ugly' people ( (Leviticus 21:17-24))," Implying that God does not show favor to people with disables, therefore, God is evil. This again reveals a fatal misconception because it takes the verse out of context. God in the whole passage, is talking about how NOBODY can enter the presence of God who is ceremonially unclean. If you look at the definitions of these words in Hebrew, it s talking about being morally impure, morally guilty, morally "contaminated" etc. The writer just uses descriptive physical terms that describe and embody those who are spiritually "Lepers" or "maimed", or "contaminated".

Let me give you an analogy:
1). God is Holy
2). Humans are sinners and impure
3). Because God is Holy and sinners are impure, nobody can enter the presence of God unless being cleansed

Furthermore, when God comes down in the form of Jesus Christ, what does He do? He heals the sick and is compassionate to those who need Him most:

A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.”

41 Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” 42 Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed. - Mark 1:40-45

This is actually an example of GODS MERCY when put into the context of the entire Bible because it shows how God Himself came down to purify those who could not themselves

My opponent then states: Trying to kill Moses ((Exodus 4:24-26)), implying that God was unreasonable trying to kill Moses. God in fact, was seeking to take Moses life because of HIS SIN. Let me give another analogy
1). God is Perfectly Holy and Just
2). A Perfectly Holy and Just God Must Punish Sin
3). Humans are sinners
4). God must punish sinners?

Where is the evil in there? the definition of justice according to Merriam Webster is: "the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals" God in fact is the law giver!! In the exodus story, Moses willingly did not administer the sacred right of circumcision that God commanded, therefore he had sinned against God. God is perfectly in the right to punish Moses but according to the story He did not. Revealing his mercy.


I want to explain the nature of evil before we continue.. Many like my opponent, believe that good and evil is essentially a cosmic scale system based on "right" and "wrong" actions... If you do more good then bad, then you are righteous. You are conversely evil if you perform more bad deeds then good. This however, is not biblical

According to the bible, Good and evil is like a disease. Once you commit an evil act, you become infect by a self-centered, prideful and lustful heart condition. Its like a power plug, once you cut the cord to the power there is no longer any electricity. You can cut it once or a thousand times and its still the same. You need to be fixed.

The bible then, is the beautiful story of Gods redemption to disease stricken sinners. He gives the law (old testament) to show humans how they cannot fix themselves, then, He comes down Himself to make his creation free from the power of sin.... in the person of Jesus Christ. (For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin - Romans 8:3)

But my opponent states: "While God, puts up many to gory tasks when he wasn't up for it himself. Such as Jesus's crucifixion."

This again is false, The Christian doctrine of the Trinity describes God as three persons in one being... That is, God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all 1 cohesive being. Therefore, God did not send some other innocent being to be tortured and killed. HE SENT HIMSELF!!! This is, in my opinion, the most beautiful description of self sacrificial love/mercy, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

To conclude my first contention we have seen:

1). God rightfully punishes sin due to his perfectly just nature
2). God sends HIMSELF down in the form of God the Son (Jesus) in order to free his creation from the effects of sin

God is the perfect standard for all of morality and cannot be worse or even close to Satan in character. This leads to my second contention..

2). Satan's acts throughout the Bible are according to his evil nature

We have seen how Satan is a CREATED BEING. He is not the creator, nor is he morally perfect like God. He is not omnipresent, he is not holy, he is just another little ant in Gods cosmic arena...

So why does the Bible call him evil? Is he not just tempting others and giving free will to others? Did God unjustly condemn Satan for making just 1 mistake?

Again, I want to make this clear! the biblical view of evil is not just good deeds over bad deeds. Satan didn't just get a 96% on his
obedience report and is therefore imperfect and condemned, NO!! Satan is filled with an unholy desire to self satisfy his own pride and took all of human creation with him. Lets put the action of Satan on a timeline

1. Satan rebels against God and takes 1/3 of Gods angels with him (Hebrews 12:12)
2. Satan successfully tempts/deceives Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge and which results in the fall of humanity (Genesis 3:4)
3. Satan then is sentenced to roam the earth and in effect, continues to deceive the world away from the truth of God (1 Peter 5:8)
4. Satan tries to temp and stop Jesus in the wilderness in order to stop Gods plan of salvation for humanity (Matt. 4:8)
5. Satan will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire to spend eternity in torment (Revelation 20:10)

I urge my opponent to try and find 1 instance where Satan preformed theses deeds out of a righteous moral character.

My opponent states:
"Satan was named of all "evil" yet, what did he exactly do?
He tempted, sure, and was a fallen angel because what he did was wrong in God's name? "

Lets see, Satan is responsible for the eternal punishment of both man and the fallen angels that he took with him, he also is actively deceiving humanity and oppressing humans through demonic control (2 Cor 10:4). To say that he only "transgressed Gods law" does not take into account the consequences of his actions leading to the prevalence of evil that we see today.

So let me conclude by showing the differences in character between God and Satan once more:

God: Perfectly punishes sin due to his divine justice while also sacrificing himself to pay a debt that humans cannot pay themselves due to his perfectly merciful nature

Satan: Self consuming being that "steals, kills and destroys" to get what he wants.

I think the distinction is quite obvious. God is NOT worse then Satan due to these contentions. I look forward to my opponents further response's.

Debate Round No. 2
Vertigo

Pro

Vertigo forfeited this round.
iTruthSeeker

Con

I don't think their needs to be anymore said.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Vertigo 1 year ago
Vertigo
Apologies .-. I believe i meant to put this in religion!
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
This should be in the religion section guys

Please do not use politics section for anything but politics
Posted by TheEpicTricycle 1 year ago
TheEpicTricycle
are you saying god is worse or better?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Bolas 1 year ago
Bolas
VertigoiTruthSeekerTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I wanted to vote for Pro, as I liked his arguments and they did include great points, but because he forfeited I have to give points to Con. One point of conduct will be awarded to Con.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
VertigoiTruthSeekerTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round, so conduct to Con.