The Instigator
vaporizeislands
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
TheSquirrel
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points

Is Homosexuality a sin?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
vaporizeislands
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/19/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 779 times Debate No: 42640
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

vaporizeislands

Con

1. The first round is for acceptance.
2. A forfeit or concession is not allowed.
3. Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed without asking in the comments before you post your round 1 argument.

Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed in the middle of the debate.Voters, in the case of the breaking of any of these rules by either debater, all seven points in voting should be given to the other person.

Debate Structure

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Presenting all arguments (no rebuttals by con)
Round 3: Refutation of opponent's arguments (no new arguments)
Round 4: Defending your original arguments and conclusion (no new arguments)

I will argue that homosexuality is not a sin and is a basic human right.

TheSquirrel

Pro

I accept. I shall argue that homosexuality is a sin in the Christian tradition.
Debate Round No. 1
vaporizeislands

Con

Homosexuality is certainly not wrong.

Homosexuality is a natural process in which someone of one gender is mutually attracted to a member of the same-sex. It isn't a choice it's a way of life just like a straight individual falls in love with someone of the opposite sex. There are many reasons why homosexuality is not wrong:

Discrimination frays the human spirit. It is a commonly known fact that discrimination can be damaging to the human soul. Slightly contradictory to Christian values.

Making committed human connections is good for physical and mental health.

Forming families, traditional or not is good for the soul.

Marriage is a basic human right and an individual personal choice and the people should not interfere with same-gender couples who choose to marry.

Homosexuality is a normal variant of adult sexuality; gay men and lesbians possess the same potential and desire for sustained loving and lasting relationships as heterosexuals, including loving and parenting children. This is supported by hard data, not just opinion.

Discriminatory marriage laws deprive gay and lesbian couples of over 1000 federal rights and benefits.

Deprivation
of these benefits has demonstrable negative psychological and social impact on same sex couples, their children and families.

Change
and adaptation make for a stronger and psychologically richer society.

Same sex couples can teach heterosexual couples how couples in relationships lacking genderer based power dynamics often solve problems and make decisions with more respect and mutuality.

This is why Christianity is wrong about Homosexuality:

Equating "being gay" with "having sex."

If an unmarried person tells you they're "straight," would you assume that they're having sex? Probably not. Most straight adults are having sex, but not all of them are. The same is true for gay adults. When coming out, I didn't say anything about my sexual beliefs or practices; I said only that I am single. Why, then, does this suddenly become a debate about the morality of gay sex, with comparisons to sexual behaviors like "fornication" and "adultery"?

I grew up in Cuba a country with strict beliefs that people shouldn't have sex outside of marriage. When I finally, tearfully admitted (after years of trying to avoid it) that I was attracted to guys and girls, I found myself on the receiving end of lecture after lecture about how being gay was a sin "just like adultery or premarital sex." But I wasn't having any kind of sex at all. Being gay isn't like adultery or premarital sex, because being gay isn't a sex act. Even if I never have sex, I'm still gay.

Using that (assumed) sex act to define us as people.

It's one thing to believe gay sex is sinful, but it's quite another to define gay people and our lives by that one act. This is where that devious word "lifestyle" creeps in. Even if I am having sex, that doesn't mean I am living a particular kind of "lifestyle." Do all sexually active straight people live the same lifestyle? Was Billy Graham's lifestyle the same as Howard Stern's? Even Christians thornicate.

Typically, the phrase "gay lifestyle" is just a euphemism for "having gay sex." But by using the word "lifestyle," you end up defining gay people's lives entirely in terms of that sex. Christians might call that sinful, but no one would refer to that as their "premarital sex lifestyle." We view it as one particular act, not a definition of the entirety of our lives.


Treating gay people as symbols of a culture war instead of as human beings.

I am a person. By my own admission, have been through a lot of struggles in figuring out who I am and whether to talk about it. But it often feels that when someone like this comes out, many people view them as just a symbol for us to celebrate or bemoan, so that we all must rush to express approval or disapproval.

Assuming being gay is a choice.

Whom you date, marry or have sex with is a choice. Whom you are attracted to isn't. "Being gay" only refers to whom I'm attracted. It's not something I chose, and it's something many of us were, frankly, afraid of when we first realized it about ourselves.

Perhaps if more Christians understood this, they wouldn't say things like the commentator who wrote that "living as an open homosexual is open rebellion to God." Think about that for a moment. If "living as an open homosexual" is rebellion against God, what choices do I have? I'm already gay; I can't change that. I could choose to lie and not to be "open" about it, but I don't believe in dishonesty. Other than that, the only way I could avoid "living as an open homosexual" would be to stop "living." I don't have to tell you where that kind of thinking leads.

Is that what the commenter intended? Of course not. But that's how the message comes across, day after day, to gay people across the country and around the world.

Let me be clear: I think everyone has a right to their moral views, even when they disagree with mine. But this isn't just about a moral disagreement; it's about how we treat one another and how we talk about one another.

If we Christians can't show more love and willingness to listen, it won't change one person from gay to straight, but it will turn a lot of people against Christianity.

It isn't a wrong.






TheSquirrel

Pro

The question "Is homosexuality a sin" requires some clarification, specifically, what is sin?Sin is defined by google as 1. an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law (1). This being said, what does Christianity have to say about their divine law? Christians consider the bible to be their guide to god's law, so I shall quote from the bible for my defense.
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality...
1 Timothy 1:10 The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
(2)

These verses clearly show the divine law of god considers homosexuality and homosexual encounters to be sinful.
But does god not forgive his children of their sins if they come before him through his son? According to the bible, he does! Does not the bible say to judge not? It does! For that I can not agree with Con more when he says "If we Christians can't show more love and willingness to listen, it won't change one person from gay to straight, but it will turn a lot of people against Christianity", but on the question of whether homosexuality is a sin, the bible seems clear.
(1) https://www.google.com...
(2) http://www.openbible.info...
Debate Round No. 2
vaporizeislands

Con

I will now produce a counter-argument...


""Is homosexuality a sin" requires some clarification, specifically, what is sin?Sin is defined by Google as 1. an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law (1). "

Firstly divine law? Providence of god... God isn't proved to exist therefore the laws that have been made in the bible can be classed as invalid. I am not actually sure which side you are on here because you say "Christians consider..." are you not a Christian or do you just believe homosexuality is a sin? I can't make end or tale of your argument but I will try and contend your point heavily.

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

Sorry, but who says? I'm not entirely sure where this source is coming from. If it is coming from God? With all due respect and I apologise profusely for blaspheming and condemning your beliefs but god is not a trustworthy source due to the contended legitimacy of his existence.


"These verses clearly show the divine law of god considers homosexuality and homosexual encounters to be sinful.
But does god not forgive his children of their sins if they come before him through his son? According to the bible, he does! Does not the bible say to judge not? It does! For that I can not agree with Con more when he says "If we Christians can't show more love and willingness to listen, it won't change one person from gay to straight, but it will turn a lot of people against Christianity", but on the question of whether homosexuality is a sin, the bible seems clear."

I'm going to dissect this very carefully and tell you how you are so ridiculously wrong.

The divine law of god, we've been over this.

So firstly, what about all the homosexual Buddhists, Hindus and members of every other religion on the planet? They have different concepts of god and some of these religions which do not condemn homosexuality have been proved to have originate before Christianity what happens to them then?

Homosexuality is not morally wrong?! Please tell me where the harm is in homosexuality?
TheSquirrel

Pro

Con makes an excellent point by pointing out the question of the existence of god. In order for sin to exist, there must be a god to sin against.
Con also brings up an excellent point by mentioning the large numbers of religions that do not consider homosexuality to be a sin under their own divine doctrines. At this point I should also point out that half the verses in the source I used in the previous round contradict the very contention I was defending (that homosexuality is a sin). That the bible contains contradictions is nothing new, and certainly further invalidates its use as an authoritative source.
It may seem by this point that I am disassembling my own argument in favor of Con's position, and that is in fact what I am being forced to do. I thought I was clear in the comments, but there seemed some confusion in the debate so I shall clarify my personal position. I am not a Christian, I am an Atheist. I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin and disbelieve in the existence of sin altogether. I accepted this debate with the intention of playing devil's advocate just to see how far I could argue against my own beliefs, but I find at this point that there is no rational position to advance with without delving into an argument on the existence of god and the legitimacy of the bible, which is a bit more devil's advocate than I think I could handle and would be at best a diversion from the argument at hand.

At this point I forfeit the debate. Please vote Con.

I thank Con for this opportunity and congratulate him on a well formulated argument. I encourage Con to try this debate again with someone who actually believes the Pro side, if only to get more mileage out of the debate.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
vaporizeislands

Con

I'd also like to add that I am female.
TheSquirrel

Pro

Duely noted. I suppose I could have noticed that from your profile!

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 4
TheSquirrel

Pro

TheSquirrel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by TheSquirrel 2 years ago
TheSquirrel
I concede the debate. Thank you, vaporizeislands for this opportunity, and I wish you luck finding a more tenacious opponent in the future.
Posted by vaporizeislands 2 years ago
vaporizeislands
Good luck.
Posted by TheSquirrel 2 years ago
TheSquirrel
Before this debate begins in earest I just wish to say that this is my first (serious) debate on debate.org and I am most certainly playing devil's advocate on this one. Good luck, Con!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Cooldudebro 2 years ago
Cooldudebro
vaporizeislandsTheSquirrelTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: The squirrel is right. I never thought i would say that in my life!
Vote Placed by Subutai 2 years ago
Subutai
vaporizeislandsTheSquirrelTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.