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sports.com
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The Contender
harrytruman
Pro (for)
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Is Isis actually acting upon their religion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/1/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 472 times Debate No: 92198
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
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sports.com

Con

Isis is not acting upon their religion
harrytruman

Pro

Yes, Isis is acting upon their religion, infact they are following all of the Qur'an rules exactly in accordance to the 5 pillars of Islam, those are:

#1- Abuse women (Qur'an 4:34, Qur'an 2:223)
#2- Kill infidels (Qur'an 2:191-193, Qur'an 4:89)
#3- Kill Jews (Sahih Muslim 41.6981-41.6985, Sahih al-Burkhari 4:52:177)
#4- Be terrorists (Qur'an 3:151, Qur'an 8:12)
#5- Own and sell sex slaves (Qur'an 33:50, 23:5-6)
Debate Round No. 1
sports.com

Con

#1. hahadah, profession of faith, is the first pillar of Islam. Muslims bear witness to the oneness of God by reciting the creed "There is no God but God and Muhammad is the Messenger of God." This simple yet profound statement expresses a Muslim's complete acceptance of and total commitment to Islam.

#2. Salah, prayer, is the second pillar. The Islamic faith is based on the belief that individuals have a direct relationship with God. The world's Muslims turn individually and collectively to Makkah, Islam's holiest city, to offer five daily prayers at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset and evening. In addition, Friday congregational service is also required. Although salah can he performed alone, it is meritorious to perform it with another or with a group. It is permissible to pray at home, at work, or even outdoors; however it is recommended that Muslims perform salah in a mosque.

#3. Zakat, almsgiving, is the third pillar. Social responsibility is considered part of one's service to God; the obligatory act of zakat enshrines this duty. Zakat prescribes payment of fixed proportions of a Muslim's possessions for the welfare of the entire community and in particular for its neediest members. It is equal to 2.5 percent of an individual's total net worth, excluding obligations and family expenses.

#4. Sawm, fasting during the holy month of Ramadan, is the fourth pillar of Islam. Ordained in the Holy Qur'an, the fast is an act of deep personal worship in which Muslims seek a richer perception of God. Fasting is also an exercise in self-control whereby one's sensitivity is heightened to the sufferings of the poor. Ramadan, the month during which the Holy Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, begins with the sighting of the new moon, after which abstention from eating, drinking and other sensual pleasures is obligatory from dawn to sunset. Ramadan is also a joyful month. Muslims break their fast at sunset with a special meal, iftar, perform additional nocturnal worship, tarawih, after evening prayer; and throng the streets in moods that are festive and communal. The end of Ramadan is observed by three days of celebration called Eid Al-Fitr, the feast of the breaking of the fast. Customarily, it is a time for family reunion and the favored holiday for children who receive new clothing and gifts.

#5. Hajj, the pilgrimage to Makkah, is the fifth pillar and the most significant manifestation of Islamic faith and unity in the world. For those Muslims who are physically and financially able to make the journey to Makkah, the Hajj is a once in a lifetime duty that is the peak of their religious life. The Hajj is a remarkable spiritual gathering of over two million Muslims from all over the world to the holy city. In performing the Hajj, a pilgrim follows the order of ritual that the Prophet Muhammad performed during his last pilgrimage.
harrytruman

Pro

You still haven't proven that Isis is not acting in accordance with Islam.
Debate Round No. 2
sports.com

Con

sports.com forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CaptainScarlet 1 year ago
CaptainScarlet
@harrytruman

There are really 2 issues at play here. 1 can you objectively state ISIS are following thee teachings of Islam. 2 Why are Muslims seemingly so keen to fall for the demagoguery and kill others because a book says so. You guys seem to be trading blows on the body count and number of wicked things said between one book or another. All these books are deeply flawed human products, but do not shed light on the debate topic.

The Koran might only have one verse, but ISIS could still be said to be adhering to Islam. I am agreeing with your side of the debate. The issue is on what objective basis do you call ISIS heretical? If you think they are not following the "true" teaching, then you have to objectively demonstrate that. But this is impossible given instructions from any supposed god seem at best open to interpretation, at worst contradictory and running counter the the general flourishing of humanity. Thus Pro is making the positive claim and has a burden of proof he cannot meet. ISIS can rightly state from their a subjective perspective, that they are right, as can a Salafist, a Shia and any other shard of Islam acting in accordance with their religious beliefs.

Why are Muslims so easily led by this abhorrent philosophy? This is complex of course, but Islam is a relatively modern 'revelation'. They are at the nexus point were their over bloated self-confidence (a fundamental part of Islam being the last and FINAL revelation) and self loathing (jealous of older religions and aware that underneath the bravado this stuff is so obviously made up) are feeding off each other. Islam is submission, if god says kill, you kill. It is that simple. Older religions have already been through that phase and are 'reformed'.
Posted by Heirio 1 year ago
Heirio
"1). Actually, it says the the firstborn, which doesn't mean children, actually the firstborn would be the oldest."

Touche on the point of children. But God still committed mass murder on the firstborn who were not sanctioned by the blood.

"3). I'd be for their execution? What do you mean?"

I mean you'd be for (in favour) of the adulterers execution, as in them being put to death.

"4). It was true that those are prevalent beliefs in Islam, but Muslims themselves don't say they are the 5 most important parts of Islam, though they really are."

Could you show that they were the most important parts?

"5). Actually it didn't say birds, it only said "these shall be an abomination unto you.""

"These are the BIRDS you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle,[a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat."

"Also, in the beginnings of the human race incest wouldn't cause genetic deformities, and they would be raised separately, so they wouldn't really be brother/sister."

Why wouldn't it cause deformities?
Raised separately? By whom?
Also, how would two siblings being raised separately get rid of the genetic deformities that'd follow from procreation via incest? Their genes are pretty much the same, they are still siblings.
How does two people being raised separately mean they're not really brother and sister any more?
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
@CaptainScarlet
No, the Qur'an has 109 verses which order violence, no other religion has so many.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
1). Actually, it says the the firstborn, which doesn't mean children, actually the firstborn would be the oldest.

3). I'd be for their execution? What do you mean?

4). It was true that those are prevalent beliefs in Islam, but Muslims themselves don't say they are the 5 most important parts of Islam, though they really are.

5). Actually it didn't say birds, it only said "these shall be an abomination unto you." Also, in the beginnings of the human race incest wouldn't cause genetic deformities, and they would be raised separately, so they wouldn't really be brother/sister.
Posted by CaptainScarlet 1 year ago
CaptainScarlet
Of course ISIS area acting in accordance with their religion. Just like any holy book you can take the bits you want and ignore the bits you don't. The problem for Islam is that as time went on the strident, murderous warlike Islam overtook the older peace, nicey-nicey Islam. Because the newer versus are ruled in as the latter and thus better revelation, we are stuck with Islamic demagogues using it to justify anything and everything.

Whilst similar passages are found in old and new testaments, there are reasons why Jews and Christians do not feel they have permission to murder the say the descendents of the Middionites watonly. But if you think Isis are not acting Islamically, you are determining that they are heretical. On what objective basis do you say that they are infact heretics?
Posted by Heirio 1 year ago
Heirio
"God himself kills people for saying bad stuff"

Ignore that, that was referring to the forty two guys killed by bears. That point is dropped.

"those who work on the Sabbath"

Exodus 35:1-3
Posted by Heirio 1 year ago
Heirio
"1). The whole book is terrible, there are 109 verses in the Qur'an which say to kill infidels, how many are there in the Torah? NONE!"

I see you are kindly ignoring the places where it advocates the killing of adulterers, those who work on the Sabbath, and where God himself kills people for saying bad stuff and when he commits genocide.
Also, we've all heard the story of Moses telling the Egyptian bloke to let his people go right? The Pharaoh declined, and as such God did quite a few things to him. Most horribly, God killed children of the parents who didn't put blood over the door. Exodus 11:5
What did the kids do to deserve that?

"2). According to the Torah Noah and his wife/sons were the only righteous people on the earth, so I doubt there were any babies."

Ah, you have got me! Because despite the fact that there were most likely MILLIONS of people there, including women, NONE of them were children. Despite the fact that they were all supposedly sinners (and would therefore probs commit adultery, which can lead to babies).

"3). No, the courts are supposed to do the stoning, not individual Jews, and there has to be a trail and all that stuff."

But if two people were trialled and found guilty of adultery, you'd be for their execution?

"4). Everyone knew those weren't the 5 pillars of Islam, it was a satire to show how terrible the Qur'an is."

You realise that this is a debate? Seriousness is sought after.

"5). please post verses for the rest of your claims."

Sure.
Noah's ark is the genocide, so I doubt a specific verse is really needed there. If it is, say.
A bat is a bird... apparently. Leviticus 11:13-19
42 guys being killed because they said hurtful words was in kings; I don't think it was in the Torah, so this point can be dropped.
The part about Adam and Eve doesn't really require a specific verse, due to how well known it is. Adam and Eve apparently started the human race. If only two people are there to do it, incest is req
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
@Heirlo
1). The whole book is terrible, there are 109 verses in the Qur'an which say to kill infidels, how many are there in the Torah? NONE!

2). According to the Torah Noah and his wife/sons were the only righteous people on the earth, so I doubt there were any babies.

3). No, the courts are supposed to do the stoning, not individual Jews, and there has to be a trail and all that stuff.

4). Everyone knew those weren't the 5 pillars of Islam, it was a satire to show how terrible the Qur'an is.

5). please post verses for the rest of your claims.
Posted by Heirio 1 year ago
Heirio
""#1- Yes, I did, I provided verses from the Qur'an which prove that ISIS is acting in accordance with Islam"

I'd like to elaborate on this point a bit...
Your holy book isn't exactly perfect is it?
I mean, God commits genocide, which isn't exactly nice. Why did he commit that genocide anyway? To get rid of evil? It didn't really work, did it?
It says that a bat is a bird.
When a large group of boys mocked a man for his bald head (mocked, as in insulted, as in said words), God had forty two of them mauled to death by bears.
Not to mention the story of Adam and Eve requires (for the flourishing of the human race that is) incest. Which is later banned in the Torah, oddly enough. This also is what's required for the human race to continue after the flood!
Posted by Heirio 1 year ago
Heirio
"#1- Yes, I did, I provided verses from the Qur'an which prove that ISIS is acting in accordance with Islam"

Just because there are some terrible lines in a book, it doesn't mean that the entire book is terrible.
Moreover, you lied. You claimed those verses were the five pillars of Islam.

"#2- The whole earth was evil at the time, so no, no innocent people died in the flood,"

Yes, because every single child and baby who existed back then was completely and utterly evil... I'm sure.

"#3 - It sounds bad at first but what is actually going on is if a woman commits sex outside of marriage she is stoned, the same applies to a man."

Even if this is so, it simply proves my point that your religion is brutal. Saying it happens to men too just increases the amount of people you're killing.
So you'd kill someone if they committed adultery?
Good to know.

"#4- Yeah and it wasn't a lie, I said what the real 5 most important things in Islam are according to the Qur'an"

You said they were the five pillars, which was a lie.

"not according to Muslims who want to sugar code their cult to make it seem more appealing."

But you don't do you?
Are you suggesting you actively stone people to death?
No votes have been placed for this debate.