The Instigator
yhubin
Con (against)
Losing
18 Points
The Contender
rougeagent21
Pro (for)
Winning
56 Points

Is Islam a Religion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/18/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,684 times Debate No: 8691
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (24)
Votes (13)

 

yhubin

Con

My fellow delegates, "The English word "religion" is derived from the Middle English "religioun" which came from the Old French "religion." It may have been originally derived from the Latin word "religo" which means "good faith," "ritual," and other similar meanings. Or it may have come from the Latin "religļæ½re" which means "to tie fast." let me emphasize the words good faith. The Islamic religion, does not act as a religion, and does not act in good faith, a religion is belief that spreads the idea of life and creation, my friends the Koran, (the holy book for Islam) spreads death and destruction, how can this be considered a religion.

Here are some verses from the Koran i would like you to observe:
2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them.

4:84, Then fight in Allah's cause.

4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.

5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.

8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.

8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them

could one challenge me to believe other wise....
rougeagent21

Pro

I hate to argue semantics, but this is just begging for it.

Religion- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

My opponent makes it obvious that Islam "spreads death and destruction..." Therefore, one can conclude that the beliefs of the Muslim religion are to cause death and destruction. Since Islam has beliefs, albeit destructive ones, it is a religion. Affirmed.

==Sources==

American Heritage Dictionary
Debate Round No. 1
yhubin

Con

What this delegation doesn't realize is that, we could go on forever comparing definitions, but the fact is, Islam above all religions remains to act as if they were in the middle ages. In Islamic countries there are Rules called the Shariah Law, stating that according to the Koran you have the right to behead people when doing something wrong all in the name of Allah.

second of all, you state, and this delegation Quotes ... Therefore, one can conclude that the beliefs of the Muslim religion are to cause death and destruction. Since Islam has beliefs....., these are not beliefs they messages of hatred being spread around the world,

but according to the definition you gave us, when could say that Adolf Hitler *i do not support what he has done* could be considered a religion as your definition states * a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.*

Does the opposing Delegation realize that all the Genocides and all the Herosities, caused by tyrants, and so on so forth, according to the definition * a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.* they could have been following there own religion.

One could ask, why has this any relevance to the debate, well it does as i am trying to prove that the definition is not good enough FOR THIS CASE.. and also to prove that this is just a brutal group aiming to kill all Americans, Israelis, and British people in the world
rougeagent21

Pro

My opponent fails to see the definition of "religion."

My opponent claims that by my definition, Adolf Hitler could be a religion. This is not so. Is Hitler a belief? No, he was a person. Is Hitlerism a religion? Yes, it is a set of beliefs that Hitler held himself. (alliteration)

The same goes for Christianity. Are Christ, Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit religions? No, they are beings. Is Christianity a religion? Absolutely, as Christianity is a set of beliefs.

My opponent says that because Muslims "act like we are in the middle ages" Islam cannot be a religion. This is simply not the case. I will explain why in the following rounds. Before I do, I need an answers from my opponent.

Opponent, please answer with a "yes" or a "no," followed with an explanation for your choice of answer.

Question 1 - Would you concede that Judaism (Orthodox Jews being the followers) is a religion?
Debate Round No. 2
yhubin

Con

My apology's to my opponent for the mistake, as for what i meant, was his beliefs,

Second there is no need to mark down whether something is an alliteration or not as i am sure, everyone here knows that you have great English skills.

I would like to go back on topic with saying that, every religion has its spreads of hatred, believe me, this delegate knows, but what i have not seen in the Islamic religion was the evolution from the medieval era to modern times. Throw history Christianity have done many horrible things, such as the Crusade, and so on so forth and so have the Jews. But Islam has i9n the past been cutting peoples heads off (like the Christians) but is still doing so today according to the Shariah Law, not only heads are been cut off, just to make my opponent aware.

There for i state my opinion that Islam is not right to be called a religion but a Agressive 1.2 billion group spreading words of hatred
rougeagent21

Pro

Please answer the question.
Debate Round No. 3
yhubin

Con

this delegate would say yes, as the Orthodox Jews have evolved compared to the Muslims through time...
rougeagent21

Pro

Evolved in what way? I do not agree with everything that you have said, but I will assume that the points you made about Islam are true for the sake of the debate. Here is why the affirmative has won:

Followers of Islam cut people's heads off.

Followers of Islam did this hundreds of years ago as well.

Followers of Judaism want to be with God.

Followers of Judaism wanted to be with God hundreds of years ago as well.

My opponent has consented that Judaism is still a religion. Why will he not consent to Islam being a religion? What he does not realize is that change does not affect a religion's status as a religion. Just because many religions change their beliefs over time does not mean that the ones that do not are no longer religions. Some things change, some things stay the same. Looking to the actual definition of "religion" we see that Islam clearly falls into that category. Do Muslims have beliefs? They certainly do. The resolution remains affirmed.
Debate Round No. 4
yhubin

Con

Listen as a member of the debate.org team said, " It is a religion but it's a false one. It has been hijacked by a minority of extremists but the majority does nothing about it. What happened when the Danish cartoonist drew Mohammed with a bomb on his head? What reaction did we see from the majority of "moderate" Muslims?

Look at Moses...look at Jesus...now look at Mohammed. See any difference? Which one is the murderous thief, pedophile, rapist, and a liar"

Islam is a false religion.
rougeagent21

Pro

Oh my, I guess it MUST be a false religion since a member of the DDO team says so...right?

You are missing the point. You have not addressed what I have said, and those points carry through the debate. I have already addressed your views on violent behavior. Simply because it is violent does not mean it is not a practiced, followed religion. If you still think that a religion cannot be violent, vote for the negative side. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 5
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tBoonePickens 7 years ago
tBoonePickens
The reasons I gave for it not being a religion had (mostly) nothing to do with extremists and mostly to do with dogma and religion itself.

However, the trouble with Islam is not only the extremists but also the so called moderates that do nothing and say nothing about the extremists and in many cases "passively" agree with but sometimes even help these radicals. When the Danish caricature of Mohammed came out, there were A LOT of protesters calling for death and grievous bodily harm towards the artist (and magazine/paper.) Those were NOT just a few extremists: they were predominantly main-stream Muslims and there were a lot of them all over the Muslim world. To simply say that it's due to xenophobia is a blatant disregard of facts.

This is not to say that all Muslims are bad or evil, or that there isn't any good within Islam. Not at all. But the facts still remain. Which is of course the point of the cartoon (that Islam's been hijacked) and the point of the speech the Pope gave (about another speech Constantine gave 800 yrs earlier) and too was received much the same way as the cartoon.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Con's case depends entirely upon redefining "religion" to suit his purposes. His definition does not correspond to the definition that is nearly universally accepted. There is nothing in the definition about promoting peace etc. Clear win for Pro.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
Alex:

I agree with your extremism bit. I only said those things as to not divert the debate from its core clash. Otherwise, we would be arguing about what Islam is, and not whether or not it is a religion. Thank you for pointing that out though.
Posted by Alexby1 7 years ago
Alexby1
I am astonished at the extreme xenophobia showcased throughout this debate and throughout these comments.
Simply because some Muslims are extremists who "cut peoples' heads off," you infer that Islam is not a religion?
Furthermore, as others have noted, the Qur'an is no more violent and extremist than the Bible or other holy texts, if taken literally.
I would also like to point out that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are not reaally all that different from each other (at least in theory). If you haven't noticed, the stories in the holy texts are all very similar, the messages are very similar (look at the pillars of Islam and tell me they all entail violence!), and the three religions worship the same (if not very similar) deity.
Posted by tBoonePickens 7 years ago
tBoonePickens
Catholic sacraments in the Bible:
http://www.gather.com...
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
RFD:
I voted Pro for everything, but sources was Tied.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
What are the Catholic Sacraments? Where are they mentioned in the Bible? I am not TOO well versed in the Catholic beliefs and would like to find out more.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
I vote Pro, for obvious reasons.
Posted by tBoonePickens 7 years ago
tBoonePickens
Yes I have read Martin Luther. Some of his reasons were valid (like indulgences) but most were not; faith alone will save you- so once you're saved you remain saved, regardless of actions no matter how abominable; anyone can interpret the Bible's meanings their way...just so long as it's not the way the Catholic church does it. He was basically trying to cease power for himself and was a rabid anti-Semite.

Anyways, Protestants are considered fellow Christians by Catholics just that they are incomplete in their sacraments. These 2 aren't causing most of the ruckus around the globe today...it's mostly Muslims. Look around: in Russia; Middle East, Africa, Indonesia, Europe, India, even in China! These people want to live like they did 1000 years ago but...not just that...they also want everyone else to do the same. I really hate to say it but they really need to be removed.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
Have you ever read Martin Luther? I would suggest the 95 Theses. The first Protestants did try to change things from the inside. It was when they were proclaimed heretics that they went outside the "church" to form their own. Their reasons were completely valid.
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