The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
3 Points

Is Jehovah a God of ruin and disaster?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/22/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 507 times Debate No: 82941
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (1)




According to the Strong's concordance Jehovah witnesses are worshiping a God who is disastrous and ruinous. My question to them is why are you continuing to give reverence to such a deity? This should be good!


I would like to start by saying that Jehovah is not a God of ruin and disaster, but a God of love and mercy. A God of grace and is truly worthy of all worship. My opponent has claimed Strong's Concordance states that Jehovah's Witnesses are worshiping a God who is disastrous and ruinous. I would like to point out that my opponent does not provide a source for this claim. However, I know for a fact that it is a false claim. Since Jehovah's Witnesses worship Jehovah as their God, let's see how Strong's Concordance defines the Tetragrammaton:

Lexical number H3068: yeh-ho-vaw'; from H1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jeho-vah, Jewish national name of God:—Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.

Now that we have the definition, let's examine the roots:
Lexical number H1961: haw-yaw; a primitive root; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon

Lexical number H3050: yaw; contraction for H3068, and meaning the same; Jah, the sacred name:-- Jah, the Lord, most vehement.

Lexical number H3069: yeh-ho-vee'; a variation of H3068

I believe it is quite clear that there is some dishonesty in the claim made by my opponent.

Source for definitions:
(Lexical number G1)

Debate Round No. 1


Here is my source: From Strong's Concord.
Strong's Concordance
hovah: a ruin, disaster
Original Word: הֹוָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: hovah
Phonetic Spelling: (ho-vaw')
Short Definition: disaster
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from havah
a ruin, disaster
NASB Translation
disaster (3).
הֹוָה noun feminine ruin, disaster (compare below הַוָּה) Ezekiel 7:26 הֹוָה עַל הֹוָה תָבוֺא disaster shall come upon disaster, Isaiah 47:11 וְתִמֹּל עָלַיִךְ הֹוָה disaster shall fall upon thee ("" רָעָה, שֹׁאָה).
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Another form for havvah; ruin -- mischief.

see HEBREW havvah

Forms and Transliterations
הֹוָ֔ה הֹוָ֤ה הֹוָה֙ הוה h!3;"wāh hoVah h!3;wāh
Strong's Hebrew 1943
3 Occurrences

h!3;"wāh " 3 Occ.

Isaiah 47:11
HEB: וְתִפֹּ֤ל עָלַ֙יִךְ֙ הֹוָ֔ה לֹ֥א תוּכְלִ֖י
NAS: how to charm away; And disaster will fall
KJV: from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall
INT: will fall and and disaster not not be able
Ezekiel 7:26
HEB: הֹוָ֤ה עַל־ הֹוָה֙
NAS: Disaster will come upon disaster
KJV: Mischief shall come upon mischief,
INT: Disaster upon disaster

Ezekiel 7:26
HEB: הֹוָ֤ה עַל־ הֹוָה֙ תָּב֔וֹא וּשְׁמֻעָ֥ה
NAS: will come upon disaster and rumor
KJV: shall come upon mischief, and rumour
INT: Disaster upon disaster will come and rumor
Jah(YAH)-HOVAH means God ruins


Let me reiterate, look at the definition of the Tetragrammaton according to Strong's Concordance:
Lexical number H3068: yeh-ho-vaw'; from H1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jeho-vah, Jewish national name of God:—Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.

You will notice that all relevant terms are listed in the definition. In fact, I took the liberty to go ahead and add those definitions in my initial argument. Now, let's examine the lexical number for the term my opponent has laid out:
Lexical number H1943
: ho-vaw'; another form for H1942; ruin:—mischief.

You will notice that it is another form of only one other term. What term is that?:
Lexical number H1942
: hav-vaw'; ruin:—calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous (thing), naughtiness, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness.|

So, where do you see that these terms are related to the Tetragrammaton? You do not see it, because they are not. Just because the transliterations are similar, does not mean that they are related. Think of it like this: just because the word “forfeit” has “it” in it, does not mean that the two words are connected.

In fact, you have argued against yourself by listing the three occurrences of hovah in the Bible:

Isaiah 47:11:
how to charm away; And disaster will fall

Ezekiel 7:26:
Disaster will come upon disaster

Ezekiel 7:26:
will come upon disaster and rumor

You will notice that none of the occurrences are in reference to the Tetragrammaton. I will make this more clear, the root word for the Tetragrammaton, according to Strong's Concordance, is lexical number H1961:
haw-yaw; a primitive root; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon

To quote Hebrew scholar Nehemia Gordon (profanities censored):
"...the rather silly claim that Yehovah יהוה comes from the Hebrew word HOVAH הוה meaning “disaster.” As I have explained in the past, this would be like saying that the word “assume” comes from the English words “a**,” “you,” and “me.” I call this “Hovah-logic,” which is defined as “knowing just enough Hebrew to be a disaster to yourself and others.” (Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence)

Debate Round No. 2


Let me reiterate....did you not see my post with not only different sources ALL saying the same that Hovah means ruin/disaster. But that it's root is coming from the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. I suggest you go back to the source of Biblical language which was not in Greek (Tetragrammaton) but in PALEO-HEBREW (picture form) hence the Ox symbolizes the Aleph. I will not continue this debate if you continue to argue from a Greek stand point instead of from the original source which is Hebrew...doesn't make sense.


I am not using Greek. I have only listed Hebrew terms from Strong's Concordance. In fact, I even quoted a Hebrew scholar on the very subject we are debating. The Tetragrammaton is not Greek, it is Hebrew. If you cannot even grasp a basic understanding of what I am saying, then do not make up things about my argument. So my arguments stand without refutation. I have already displayed that hovah has no relation to the Tetragrammaton.

As for my opponent not wanting to continue the debate, that is no problem. This is the last round anyways. I would like to thank my opponent for a well organized and thoughtful debate.

Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by AmaliCabral 11 months ago
Thanks...that is all I wanted to know.
Posted by tstor 11 months ago
The Tetragrammaton is a Greek word, but it specifically concerns the Hebrew name or God. So, that is why I said that the Tetragrammaton is not Greek, but Hebrew. This should have been obvious given that we were debating Hebrew meanings. As for the accuracy of "Jehovah," it has no relevancy to the debate topic.
Posted by AmaliCabral 11 months ago
AmaliCabral said this in the 3rd round ---> "The Tetragrammaton is not Greek, it is Hebrew." I just proved from numerous sources that it is a Greek rendition of the Hebrew YHWH. So why even mention it at all? Why not go back to the source...and the source says Jehovah is a perverted, twist on the original name called YHWH.
Posted by tstor 11 months ago
You accused me of using Greek. I have not used any Greek in my arguments. As for my heritage, yes.
Posted by AmaliCabral 11 months ago
Thanks...that was not my point is Tetragrammaton the word from Greek origin? And are you of European heritage?
Posted by tstor 11 months ago
Without trying to continue the debate, I will correct you in saying that the Tetragrammaton is the term used concerning the Hebrew name for God. It has nothing to do with the Greek.
Posted by AmaliCabral 11 months ago
Book-->The Tetragrammaton and the Christian Greek Scriptures: Sec.1 Chp1 pg.3 (first paragraph)
Before going further, however, it will be of interest to look at the meaning of the word
Tetragrammaton1 itself. The Greek word tetra (tetrav) is used as a prefix designating the number four.
We find this word at Luke 3:1 where it refers to Herod as a district ruler or tetrarch as noted in the
New World Translation Reference Edition footnotes. The tetrarch shared a kingdom area; he was one
of four rulers. (In contrast, a single ruler is called a monarch.) The Greek word gramma (gramma) v means
writings or letters. Galatians 6:11 says, "See with what large letters (gramma) v I have written YOU
with my own hand." Thus, Tetragrammaton means four letters.2 The term Tetragrammaton itself is not in the bible...

So in my previous comment we see that it wasn't until the 15th century when people began using the word Tetragrammaton other than the Greeks in the past. And in this comment above from the book I posted the term does not exist in the Bible, so this means it did not exist in the Torah because supposedly the Israelites pre-date the Christians if they ever existed in the first place. Are you European?
Posted by AmaliCabral 11 months ago
You said in our debate the the Tetragrammaton is not from a Greek source? They claimed its translituration came from YHWH but it was translated from the Greeks: NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE GETTING YOUR SOURCES FROM? We know the Greeks are not the Hebrew Israelites...according to your theory and most Europeans is that they discover it and alter it, then IT becomes theirs! No matter how you translate a word in order to find the true meaning of it, we must go back to its etomology. So again Tetragrammaton is a Greek word.

According to Wikipedia:
The tetragrammaton (from Greek `4;^9;`4;`1;^5;^7;`1;^0;_6;_6;^5;`4;_9;_7;, meaning "(consisting) of four letters")[1][2] is the Hebrew theonym יהוה, commonly transliterated into Latin letters as YHWH.
Word Origin and History for Tetragrammaton Expand
c.1400, from Greek (to) tetragrammaton "(the word) of four letters," from tetra- "four" (see four ) + gramma (genitive grammatos) "letter, something written" (see grammar ).


Middle English, from Late Latin, from Greek, from neuter of tetragrammatos having four letters, from tetra- + grammat-, gramma letter " more at gram
First Known Use: 15th century
Posted by tstor 11 months ago
Forgot to add my source for the lexical definitions in my second argument. It is the same as the first:
Source for definitions:
(Lexical number G1)
Posted by AmaliCabral 11 months ago
Jonbonbon what is God's name?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leugen9001 11 months ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro used a word sounding similar to God's name in an attempt to "prove" that He is a god of "ruin and disaster"; however, he did not adequately prove a connection between the two, etymologically or in religious belief, meaning that he did not fulfil his burden of proof.