The Instigator
FarhanSohani
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
rougeagent21
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points

Is Jesus God in the light of the Bible?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/9/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,157 times Debate No: 8192
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (5)

 

FarhanSohani

Con

Before I get to the topic, I would like to give a definition of the word God that I used in the resolution of the debate. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, God means: the supreme or ultimate reality : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe. I would like the pro to do me a favor: I want him/her to give me one quotation from any version of the Bible, where Jesus says these three words: "I AM GOD" or where he says "WORSHIP ME". I won't make any arguments until the pro quotes verses of the Bible that proves Jesus Is God.
NOTE: I ONLY want the words Of Jesus.
rougeagent21

Pro

Matthew 27:11
Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

I believe that this site explains the situation very well. It can also be applied to Christianity.
http://www.answering-islam.org...

Suppose a man does indeed come up to you and does says,

"I am God, worship me."

Would you believe him?
Would you worship him?

The immediate reaction of any decent monotheistic believer
would be to call the person making such a claim an impostor
and a blasphemer. If that is your reaction too, then why
would you demand something from Jesus which you aren't going to
accept anyway? Most would declare insane anybody who would make
such a statement. Jesus knows about this natural reaction as
well as anybody else and saw no reason to make his claims in
such a foolish way. But he did make the claim in indirect ways
and those are just as clear.

So in essence, yes. Jesus did claim to be God. He did not say verbatim "I AM GOD," but said the equivalent. In answer to the second part of your question, I offer the following verses. A phrase similar to this though can be seen multiple times throughout the Bible.

Psalm 66:1
Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:

Psalm 95:1
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Psalm 95:2
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

I believe I answered both of your questions. Any more?

http://www.blueletterbible.org...
http://www.blueletterbible.org...
Debate Round No. 1
FarhanSohani

Con

Brother, all the verses that you are quoting at the end of the argument are poems that are sung in God's praise, there is nothing wrong in that. In my red letter Bible, these words are not in red, therefore Jesus never said these words. Now, coming to Matthew 27:11: Just because someone says he is king,it doesn't fit the definition of God, that I used in the Round 1. Let me give you an example of this.
A king doesn't have the PERFECT power, he can easily be overthrown by anyone in his family, he can be killed. There are many examples from history. For example, When Charles I became the King of England in 1625, after the death of James I,the English Civil War toppled him over because not only did he not follow the Petition Of Right that the Parliament signed, but he tried to force the Presbyterian Scots to accept a version of the Anglican prayer book, so the Scots rebelled and threatened to invade England. From 1642-1649, King Charles I fought the English Civil War, at the end of the war, he was bought to trial for treason, he was guilty and sentenced to death. The execution of Charles was revolutionary. Now, let me ask you: Do we human beings have the power to remove, overthrow God from his Throne?
and the answer is NO. You said in Round one that "He did not say verbatim "I AM GOD," then why do you worship him?
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Jesus Christ never claimed Divinity

A study of the the Bible reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. AGAIN, there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

(I) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]

(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]

(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]

(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

2.
The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

3.
God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)

The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:

(i)
"… and the word which ye hear is not mine, BUT THE FATHER"S WHO HAS SENT ME."
[The Bible, John 14:24]

(ii)
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]

4.
Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?'

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.' "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. If Jesus (pbuh) did not like to be called "good", do you think he would love to be called God?

5.
Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN APPROVED OF GOD among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]
rougeagent21

Pro

Agreed, Jesus did not write Psalms. He did cause inspiration for them though. Now to Matthew, Jesus claimed to be King of the Jews. Back in Biblical times, "The King of the Jews" was equated with "Messiah, savior, God." Therefore, he did claim directly to be God.

"A king doesn't have the PERFECT power, he can easily be overthrown by anyone in his family, he can be killed."

In His human flesh, yes, Jesus was killed. But he rose again! That enough should show His divinity.

I agree with your verses you have shown. I will show you more where Jesus equates himself to God. Therefore, Jesus claims to be God by claiming to be His Father, God.

"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." John 10:30-33

And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." John 13:12-14

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?"
John 14:6-9

So far, we have equated the Father with God.
I just equated Jesus with the Father.
Jesus claims to be His Father...
...and therefore claims to be God.

http://www.blueletterbible.org...
Debate Round No. 2
FarhanSohani

Con

>>>

-According to Hebrew dictionaries and Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 18, Pg 94, the word "messiah" literally means anointed one. Greek dictionaries translate it as "christos" meaning Christ. Nowhere does it say God or savior.

<<>>
- If I try to argue this point, we will be off the topic completely. But I will quote to you verses from Luke 24:36-43,
if you remember the story of the Upper Room, when Jesus appeared to his Disciples.

36 And as they thus spoke, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit HATH NOT flesh and bones, AS YE SEE ME HAVE.
-What was he trying to prove here? He was trying to prove HE WAS ALIVE and he had FLESH AND BONES because according to St. Paul he says " So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body, it is raised a SPIRITUAL body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
And Jesus Says, in the Gospel Of Luke, Chapter 20, Verses 27-36, if you remember the story of a woman having seven husbands, all the seven husbands die and the woman died last.
The Jews ask Jesus, in verse 33, "Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife."
So Jesus replys in verses 34-36 "And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: neither can they die any more: for THEY ARE EQUAL UNTO THE ANGELS.
So according to Jesus and St.Paul resurrected bodies are angelised, they are spiritualised. If Jesus himself says, he has flesh and bones and he is not a spirit, how is he resurrected? Did he contradict himself?

40 And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of a honeycomb.

43 AND HE TOOK IT, AND DID EAT BEFORE THEM.
-What was he trying to prove here? That he was God?
No, HE WAS TRYING TO PROVE THAT HE IS NOT GOD AND HE IS A PHYSICAL BODY, HE ATE!
------------------

Now, let's get to the verses you quoted. First, we will discuss John 10:30-33, I will give you the context of these verses.
For the context, go to verse 23, it says "And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch", the next verse says

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
-The Followers of Jesus can't pluck them out of his hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

-So with the context, we understand that IN PURPOSE, THEIR PURPOSE IS THE SAME, they are one IN PURPOSE.
For example, if I say "My father is a doctor and even I'm a doctor." And then if I say "I and my father are one", does that mean we are one person? The answer is NO, because I'm a doctor and my father is a doctor, in profession we are doctors. Our profession is one, it doesn't mean one as a person.
But if you still believe, it's saying one as a person, if you read further in the Gospel Of John, Chapter 17, Verses 21-23, Jesus says "that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee:
"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
" I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. This is what he tells his disciples. If you believe he is saying one in a person, you would have to believe in 14 gods, Almighty God, Jesus, and his 12 disciples . If you go back to the original manuscripts, the Greek word "One" used in John 10:30 is the same exact word, which is used in John 17:21-23. In context, we understand that Almighty God, Jesus, and his disciples taught the same truth, the same Message. In giving the Message, they were one, but if you don't agree with the context that they are one IN PURPOSE, then you should also agree that his 12 disciples were also God. The next verse says:

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods ?
- If you have cross-reference of Psalms 82:6, it says " I have said, Ye are gods"

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
-So, if you analyze the context, Jesus never claimed divinity, what he said was that IN PURPOSE
Almighty God and himself in giving the message they are the same.

----------------------
Now, let's discuss John 14:6-9. Again, I will give you the context. For the context , go to verse 2 it says:

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- I have no problem in accepting this statement. Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life, no man came to Almighty God, but by Jesus during his time. Every Messenger of God was the way, the truth, and the life when they preached the Message of God during their time, and I agree with my statement. It's saying if you follow me , you're indirectly following Almighty God. The next verse says:

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
-Meaning if you follow, my commandments , you are indirectly following the commandments of Almighty God. If you reread verse 1, Jesus says ""In my Father's house are many mansions", he doesn't say in my house there are many mansions. He is talking about Almighty God from the context.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

I will clarify your other verse, John 13:12-14 in the next round due to the lack of space.
rougeagent21

Pro

I will simply ask one question this round. Please answer yes or no.

1- Is Jesus' Father God?
Debate Round No. 3
FarhanSohani

Con

Before I clarify John 13:12-14, I will answer your question that you raised up in Round 3.
You asked "Is Jesus' Father God?".
My answer is: Jesus is NOT God, and he is NOT the Father in heaven.
If he is the Father in heaven, then all the verses that I quoted in Round 2, go against this statement "Is Jesus God" because God is NOT humble, He is NOT powerless, etc. I will continue to prove this throughout Round 4 and 5.

Let's get to John 13:12-14: Again, let's look at the context. Lets start from verse 1

1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscar'i-ot, Simon's son, to betray him;

3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he WAS COME from God, and went to God; - This statement proves he is NOT God, because key words "WAS COME"

4 he riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

5 After that he poureth water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. - God does not wash other people's feet, that is one quality a human has.

6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?

7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.

9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.

10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

- I want to explain these words "Lord" and Master". These two words have several definitions, but sometimes people understand the definition to be Almighty God. According to the Oxford Dictionary, the word "Lord" has 10 definitions, and the word "Master" has 13 definitions. We have many examples from history where kings were called Lords and Masters. For Example, Pharaohs were called as Lords and Masters during there time, does that mean they are Gods?
No, these words refer to ruling over servants or the chief of a group of people.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are several other verses that prove Jesus is NOT God:

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord', shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven" (Matthew 7:21)

"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, bore witness of Me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape" (John 5:37)

"And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:18)

"And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." (John 8:50)

" Jesus answered them and said, "my doctrine are not Mine, but His who sent Me" (John 7:16)

"he who does not love me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent me" (John 14:24)

"For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

"Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work" (John 4:34)

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent me" (John 6:38)

"saying, ‘Father, if it is your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not My will, but Yours, be done" (Luke 22:42)

"I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me" (John 5:30)

"I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him" (John 13:16)

"You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)

"Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but HE SENT me" (John 8:42)

"To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father" (Matthew 20:23)

"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me" (John 7:16)

Jesus Praying in Gethsemane, from the Gospel Of Matthew, Chapter 26, Verses 36-46:

36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsem'ane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder

37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zeb'edee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, NOT AS I WILL , but AS THOU WILT.

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, THY WILL BE DONE.

43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

-These verses are repeated in the Gospel Of Mark, Chapter 14, Verses 32-42, and the Gospel Of Luke, Chapter 22, Verses 39-46. One may ask, if Jesus is "God", who was he praying to?
God accepts prayers, he doesn't have to pray for ANYTHING.

The verse that I quoted at the top, Gospel Of Matthew, Chapter 7, Verses 21-23, say:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- These verses clearly prove Jesus is NOT God, if he was God, he wouldn't answer that way. This verse doesn't apply to Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. Because they don't believe Jesus is God. The Christians claim that Jesus is God, even though he is NOT, which is proven by this verse, and hundreds of other verses.

Further, if you read the Gospel Of Luke, Chapter 23, Verse 34, it says:
"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do"

Why did Jesus asked God Almighty to forgive them?

Jesus says in Matthew 6:6, "PRAY TO THY FATHER", he never said pray to ME.
rougeagent21

Pro

You did not answer the question. I asked is Jesus' FATHER is God. Answer me yes or no please.
Debate Round No. 4
FarhanSohani

Con

I believe, I have already answered your question, but I will answer your question again.
If you are trying to ask me:
Should Jesus Be Worshipped? My answer is NO
Is Jesus the Father in Heaven? My Answer is NO
Should we worship the Father? My Answer Is YES
Is Jesus GOD? My Answer is NO
Should we believe Jesus was a messenger? My Answer is YES
Did Jesus ever claim to be God? My Answer Is NO
Does Jesus prove he is God? My Answer is NO

This time, I will prove the actions of Jesus which will prove he is not God.

If Jesus is "God", he is humble and modest:
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-17)

- Jesus refuses to be called "good", how would he ask you to worship him and consider him God?
For example, if I describe someone as intelligent, and that person replies "I'm not intelligent at all, I am stupid", this is humility, modesty. Jesus did exactly that same thing. If he was God, he should have said "If you want everlasting life, worship me". He didn't say that, he said God is good, I'm not good. Is humility and modesty a quality of God?

If Jesus is "God", he is ignorant of Judgment Day:
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, NEITHER the Son, but the Father
(Mark 13:32)

-This verse is repeated in Matthew 24:36. Jesus says in this verse that he doesn't know when the Last day will come, only the Father knows. If Jesus is God, how can he not have knowledge of the Last Day? Knowledge is part of God, he knows everything. Having no knowledge of future events, is this a quality of God?

If Jesus is "God", he was tempted in all things:
For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL POINTS tempted like AS WE ARE, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God CANNOT be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man (James 1:13)

- If Jesus is "God", how was he tempted? The verse above proves God Can't be tempted, But Jesus was tempted by the devil for 40 days in the wilderness (Mark 1:12-13). How can the devil tempt "God"?

If Jesus Is "God", he learned though experience:
though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered (Hebrews 5:8)
- Learning through suffering, is this a quality of God?

If Jesus is "God", he was ignorant of the seasons and he eats food like we humans do:
And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry
and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. (Mark 11:12-13)
-How does Jesus not know, what the time of figs was, if he is "God"? If Jesus is "God", how was he hungry like we humans are? Having no knowledge of seasons, hungry for food, are these qualities of God?

If Jesus is "God", he is powerless:
I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. (John 5:30-31)
- How can God do nothing? Is he powerless?

If Jesus is "God", he cries and weeps just like humans:
Jesus wept (John 11:35)
- Can you imagine God Crying and weeping? The reason Jesus was weeping was because his friend Lazarus had died.
If someone dies, we humans get emotional and we start to cry. But God doesn't cry. Crying is NOT a quality of God.

If Jesus is "God", he gets tired just like we do:
Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well (John 4:6)
- How can God get tired? His power has no limits. He doesn't get tired like we do. Is this a quality of God?

If Jesus is "God", he drinks just like we do after we are tired:
There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (John 4:7)
-The next verse says, he wanted water to drink. Does God drink at all? This is NOT a quality of God?

If Jesus is "God", he is sorrowful:
Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsem'ane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zeb'edee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death.
(Matthew 26:36-38)
- Sorrowful is a quality of humans, not God

If Jesus is "God", he groans:
Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave (John 11:38)
- God doesn't groan. For example, when we get a lot of homework at school, we groan. That's what humans do, God doesn't do that.

If Jesus is "God", he sleeps:
And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him. And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but HE WAS ASLEEP. (Matthew 8:23-24)
- When we watch a boring black and white movie from the 40s, we fall asleep. God doesn't sleep, because He is God, not a human like us. Sleeping is NOT a quality of God, It's a quality of a human. God doesn't sleep on pillows either, but according to Mark 4:38, and Luke 8:23, he fell asleep on a pillow.

If Jesus is "God", then he is weak:
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, STRENGTHENING him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
(Luke 22:43-44)
-When Jesus was praying in the garden, he was praying so hard, he was sweating. Is God Weak? Does He need a angel to strengthen Himself? Does God sweat? Who was Jesus praying to?

If Jesus Is "God", he was humiliated:
"And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote
him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face."
(Luke, 22:63-64)

"Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and
others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew, 26:67)

-When Jesus appeared before the Council, they mocked him, beated him, blindfolded him, they even spit in his face. Can this happen to God? Can we beat and spit on God's Face?

If Jesus is "God", he walked in fear of the Jews:
"Then from that day forth they took
counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more
openly among the Jews. (John, 11:53-54)
-Is God scared of humans? Fear is a quality humans have, God doesn't. The counsel made a plot against Jesus, so in fear he fled to a city near the wilderness called E'phra-im.

If Jesus is "God", he fled in disguise:
"Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus
hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and
so passed by." (John, 8:59)
- After Jesus told the Jews that he was before Abraham, in anger they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself and he went to the temple and passed by in the midst of them. How can he get away without a disguise?
Fleeing in disguise, is this a quality of God?

If Jesus is "God", he was 12 years old when his parents took him to Jerusalem:

"Now his
parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when
he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the
feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. (Luke, 2:41-43)
- Does God have a age? Does He have Parents? Again, these are NOT qualities of God.

If Jesus is "God", he had a Spiritual Development:
"And the child grew, and waxed strong in
spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke, 2:40)

Jesus is NOT God, there are 1000s of examples from the Bible that we can discuss for days together.
rougeagent21

Pro

Despite numerous attempts to get a SIMPLE answer from a SIMPLE question, you are still ignorant to what I so clearly asked.

"I will simply ask one question this round. Please answer yes or no. "Is Jesus' Father God?"

He replied:
"My answer is: Jesus is NOT God, and he is NOT the Father in heaven."

I asked again:
"You did not answer the question. I asked is Jesus' FATHER is God. Answer me yes or no please."

He replied:
"If you are trying to ask me:
Should Jesus Be Worshipped? My answer is NO"
Nope. Not what I asked.
"Is Jesus the Father in Heaven? My Answer is NO"
Not what I asked.
"Should we worship the Father? My Answer Is YES"
Strike three.
"Is Jesus GOD? My Answer is NO"
The list goes on. My opponent cannot or will not grasp my simple words.

Despite my opponent's attempts to dodge my question, I can draw the same conclusion as if he had answered. He says that we should worship the Father. He only wants to worship God. Therefore, my opponent claims that the Father is God.

Jesus says in John 10:30,
"I and the Father are one."
http://www.biblegateway.com...

Therefore, Jesus is the Father. My opponent says that the Father is God. Ergo, Jesus is God. This is simple A=B=C, then A=C. Jesus is God. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Flare_Corran 8 years ago
Flare_Corran
Revelation. And there are some in the other books, just not as direct.
Posted by Justinisthecrazy 8 years ago
Justinisthecrazy
trinity should argued the trinity lol
Posted by wjmelements 8 years ago
wjmelements
""Agreed, Jesus did not write Psalms. He did cause inspiration for them though."

Since when? Psalms were written long before Jesus.
Posted by wjmelements 8 years ago
wjmelements
lol Ragnar.

Well, excluding the book of John, are there truly any references to Jesus being God?

It seems the only book that was referencable was John...

Neither Matthew nor Mark nor Luke recalled any such claim while this claim was abundant elsewhere.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Course not. The Bible doesn't light up.
Posted by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
And Revelation is attributed to John. These songs were inspired by God's goodness, and written by man. It is rather irrelevant in the debate now though. I conceded this, but brought up a much stronger argument.
Posted by Puck 8 years ago
Puck
"Agreed, Jesus did not write Psalms. He did cause inspiration for them though."

... wut?

Psalms are attributed, amongst others, to Solomon, David, Moses.
Posted by snelld7 8 years ago
snelld7
>>>Impossible. Jesus spoke Aramaic

lol
Posted by Flare_Corran 8 years ago
Flare_Corran
The exact words "I am God" are not said. However, Jesus did claim that He was God.
Posted by Flare_Corran 8 years ago
Flare_Corran
Impossible. Jesus spoke Aramaic.
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