The Instigator
Ghassen
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
david_gregg
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Is Jesus God ?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 844 times Debate No: 29304
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

Ghassen

Con

If he never said 'I am God ' or 'Worship me ' than why should we think he is God?
I believe that this belief is a cornerstone in Christianity , so he must be explicit and claim to be God clearly , although , Jesus said that the one who sent him is greater than him(1)..

(1):"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
John , chapter 14 , verse 28
david_gregg

Pro

But, there is where you are wrong. In John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, "Show us the Father"?

To me that is pretty much clear.

Before we get angry, I am a man of faith and I hope we both show our opinions in a civil manner.

Looking forward to your response.
Debate Round No. 1
Ghassen

Con

Thank you very much for accepting the challenge brother.
First of all I want to tell you that am not trying to offend anybody by posting this debate , we are just seeking the truth , and nothing but the truth am not Christian and I think that it's obvious, but I read the Bible , and one of my favorite verses is "Come now, and let us reason together" Isaiah 1:18 ..
Moreover I read the verse you quoted David , and I don't see that it's an evidence of Jesus' divinity , I asked you to give me a verse where Jesus ask people 'To worship him ' or where he claim being God clearly ,and I don't think that the verse you quoted goes with what I asked .As I told you Jesus divinity is a cornerstone in the Christian faith , it must be pointed out clearly , and not using a metaphorical expression that can be misunderstood . Actually I think that you misunderstood this verse too Mr David , because , if seeing Jesus is considered as seeing God , then , slapping Jesus and spitting in his face (1) is considered as slapping and spitting on God ! Creator of the heavens and earth don't you think that it's a blasphemy to God?
Added to that , I don't think that we can understand the verse you quoted correctly, without reading from the beginning, "I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to myself",the place that he mentioned is the kingdom. Thomas misunderstood him and said, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?" (John 14:5).
He thought that the Christ spoke about a real road... Correcting him and explaining that it is a spiritual path, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life",this is how I understand the Christ claiming that seeing him is seeing the God
, as who ever witnessed Jesus miracles , he had actually witnessed God"s deeds!!These are not my words brother , these are Jesus' words "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."(John chapter 5 verse 30 )
Looking forward to your response.

(1):(Matt. 27:30)
david_gregg

Pro

Like you said it is one of the cornerstones in Christianity. I'm sure you know this Christianity is all by faith and works scripture states that. Now I have faith that everything in the Bible is truth, it's the true living word of God.

In Genesis 1:26 God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
please notice that he said "Let US" I personally believe that "us" is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Also I'm sure you know this. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And I also have faith in him as God, because I have personally seen people healed in the name of Jesus.
Debate Round No. 2
Ghassen

Con

Brother , you didn't post a verse in which Jesus say 'I am God " , you keep posting verses and you give them the explication you believe in , ask any atheist , if a king speaks , what wouuld he use , would he say :'I ..." or "We..." , does it mean , that the king is three persons in one ?? , the same thing about the meaning , you are according the explication you want to verses that can be understood in 1000 ,imagine that you are reading the verse you quoted to somebody who never heard about trinity , who never believed in , do you think he will get ( get not believe ) that Jesus is god ? ,believe me he won't unless he believe in that , he will try to give these controversial verses the explication he want , just cause they are not explicit as 'I am GOD , I am Jesus , I created you , Worship me ' , and what I meant is that if Jesus divinity is a cornerstone , then where is the explicit verse showing it ?I still want you to give me this verse ,a verse as explicit as 'God created the universe' , although we find that "He (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed.." Mathew 26:39 , which is very explicit , and which means , according to your logic Mr David , that God is praying to God!!
david_gregg

Pro

I looked in my Bible last night and found some things for you to look over.

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells Satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."

John 10:30 "I and My Father are one."

I pray this is what you have been looking for.
Debate Round No. 3
Ghassen

Con

Thank you very much brother ; well I asked you to give us some for the verse "I and the father are one." John 10:30 , again I think that you misunderstood the verse , since I believe Jesus Christ meant that he is one with the Father in the purpose,I hope you know this verse as well , in which Jesus said again that he and his Father are one : 'I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[a] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.' John 17:11 .Clearly the fact that the union is a union in purpose is not my explication,because in this verse The Christ himself explained what he meant , as you see , The Messiah prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one,in the purpose , obviously, he was not praying that all his disciples should somehow merge into one individual,or do you think that it's the meaning of the verse ? And when Luke reports that the disciples were all one, I don't think that you believe that Luke meant that they became one single human being, but that they shared a common purpose although they were separate beings (see Acts 4:32) ,just like
Jesus and the Father ,they are two, for Jesus said they are two witnesses (John 8:14-18),they can't be one as one is greater than the other (John 14:28).
Added to that when Jesus prayed to be saved from the cross, he said: "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." (Luke 22:42).This shows that they had two separate wills, although Jesus submitted his will to the will of the Father. Two wills mean two separate individuals,but due to the submission of Son of Mary , they shared the same purpose .Furthermore, Jesus is reported to have said: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46). If one of them forsook the other, then they must be two separate entities.
Furthermore , I think that you posted a verse from the Book of Revelation, which is an unreliable book since early Christians and elders of the Church - Marcion, Caius of Rome, Dionysius of Alexandria, Amphilocius of Iconium, Gregory of Nazianzus, Cyril of Jerusalem, Synod of Laodicea in 360 CE - disputed it.(1)
I think you noticed my brother that the verses you quoted , are not as explicit as the simple sentence 'I am God ' ,which can not be understood differently ..
Thank you

(1) Bible Research, an internet resource by Michael D. Marlowe. (http://www.bible-researcher.com...)
david_gregg

Pro

david_gregg forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by timou 3 years ago
timou
old bible found in Turkey mentionne rophet Muhammed pbuh, christians are lost , Jesus is prophet without father. God is God
http://anti-brainwash.overblog.com...
Posted by timou 3 years ago
timou
Jesus is prophet without father, islam came to show truth . i have alot scientific proofs that your media hide . use logic;
there is 1 God ,1religion and many rophets who have 1same message:to believe in one God=islam.
religion is islam .
Posted by Bishnu 3 years ago
Bishnu
Ghassen should be the winner.
Posted by larry1 3 years ago
larry1
The reason that Jesus came to earth was so that He could get into man. (by being born of man) and got man into God. (by resurrecting and ascending into the heavens which is the realm of God.) Also, although Jesus says He is the Son of God, the Father and Son are the same.
Posted by david_gregg 3 years ago
david_gregg
gregm55, I'm a senior in high school. I also study when I can. And $ days a week I have Bible studies. I would love to IM sometime.
Posted by gregm55 3 years ago
gregm55
One thing that people must remember is that they were in a different time and culture at that point. By Jesus saying something like "I am the Son of Man" would make as much sense as if someone told you today "I am RG3." Most people who know anything about football know who that is, and anyone who knew the gospels in Jesus' day would have understood the term Son of Man. It is always important when studying famous writings to learn the background behind them. I will ad that I am no apologist with a doctorate. I am a senior in higsh school. But I have studied scripture a lot and have learned from some amazing people who have taught me amazing answers. If anyone wants to get into a Biblical debate I would always be willing to try to prove my side of things.
Posted by david_gregg 3 years ago
david_gregg
Thank you gregm55, that is exactly right!
Posted by gregm55 3 years ago
gregm55
He also calls Himself the "Son of Man" which is an allusion to Isaiah in the Old Testament who prophesized that the Savior would be called the Son of Man because he was God in flesh.
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