The Instigator
Jhessa
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Valladarex
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Is Jesus deity?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Valladarex
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 689 times Debate No: 32979
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

Jhessa

Pro

Rules:
Both parties must respond to points made by the opponent. (I thought this was common knowledge, apparently not.)
That is the only rule I foresee needing.

First of all I am convinced that God is very much real, alive and active. I believe He inspired men to write His word through His own guidance and because of this we can take Scripture as being authoritative on all of its subject matter. That being said.

I believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God and He is co-equal with Him. I believe this for several reasons.
1. He says He is.
2. God says that no god was formed before Him and none will be formed after Him. Isaiah 43:10
3. God says He will not share His glory (Isaiah 42:8) Jesus says his Father glorifies him. (John 8:54)
4. We are told to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit.

I'll give a few specific Scripture passage that I believe prov my position.

1. Jesus openly claimed to be deity. Examples.
John 10:29- "I and the Father are one."

2. His power over Satan and his demons.
Matthew 4:1-11- Jesus rebuked Saran in his attempt to get Jesus to submit to Him.
Matthew 8:29- The Fallen angels recognized Jesus. "Why are you bothering us now Son of God?, Have you come to torment us before the time?" They knew exactly who He was.

3. His power over nature.
Matthew 8:23-27- (Vs. 26) "And he said to them, "Why are you afraid, O you of little faith?" Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm."

4. His power over death.
Matthew 20:17-19- Jesus states that he will be betrayed, crucified, and that He will raise again on the third day.
John 10:17-18- "I have authority to lay it down and to raise it up again."

5. He gives eternal life.
John 10:28- " I give them eternal life and they will never parish"
Valladarex

Con

Opening Statements

I'd like to thank my opponent for giving me the opportunity to debate this topic. I hope we will have a great debate on the divinity of Jesus.
I believe there is no convincing evidence that any revealed religion is accurate, including Christianity. I think that there are errors in every religious text for the major world religions today. Also, I am an agnostic Deist. This means that I believe an impersonal creator of the universe is more likely than not.
Since Pro makes the positive claim that Jesus is a deity, he has the burden of proof.

Rebuttals

"First of all I am convinced that God is very much real, alive and active. I believe He inspired men to write His word through His own guidance and because of this we can take Scripture as being authoritative on all of its subject matter. That being said."
I'd like to know why you are convinced that God is active. As I can't prove a creator of the universe is inactive, the burden of proof for this is on you.
That being said, I'd like to know how you decided the bible is the most likely book to be inspired by God. There are many religious texts out there, including the Tanakh, the Avestas, the Quran, the Vedas, and the Homeric Hymns. I don't see how you came the conclusion that the Bible is the authoritative book of God.

"I believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God and He is co-equal with Him. I believe this for several reasons.
1. He says He is.
2. God says that no god was formed before Him and none will be formed after Him. Isaiah 43:10
3. God says He will not share His glory (Isaiah 42:8) Jesus says his Father glorifies him. (John 8:54)
4. We are told to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit."

1.Many founders of religions claim to be God or a prophet for a God or multiple Gods. Also, you are assuming that the writers of the book are being truthful. I see no reason to believe them over any other religious text writer in history.
2. You assume that the bible is true and accurate. It would make sense that this would be in any holy book, as the texts are meant to be the word of god or gods. Therefore, it would be a conflict in interest if other books were also true, unless the new holy book being written is meant to be an expansion of older ones. Examples of expansions include Christianity, Islam, Latter-Day Saints and more.
3. Not sure how this proves that Jesus is divine. If one wanted to act like a God, one would say the same. Then again, he might not have said that at all. We are depending on the testimony of the apostles.
4. Again, not sure how this proves Jesus is divine. Religious rituals are a common way to prove your commitment to a God, whether that God is the real one or not.

"I'll give a few specific Scripture passage that I believe prov my position.

1. Jesus openly claimed to be deity. Examples.
John 10:29- "I and the Father are one.""

This would make sense for a man to say if he wants to people to think he is divine. It doesn't give the resolution any merit though.

"2. His power over Satan and his demons.
Matthew 4:1-11- Jesus rebuked Saran in his attempt to get Jesus to submit to Him.
Matthew 8:29- The Fallen angels recognized Jesus. "Why are you bothering us now Son of God?, Have you come to torment us before the time?" They knew exactly who He was."
That's sounds like an interesting story, just like many written in classical antiquity. There is still no evidence presented to prove that this actually happened.

"3. His power over nature.
Matthew 8:23-27- (Vs. 26) "And he said to them, "Why are you afraid, O you of little faith?" Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.""
Another interesting story, with no evidence to back it. There are stories of prophets doing miracles in many other religious books too.

"4. His power over death.
Matthew 20:17-19- Jesus states that he will be betrayed, crucified, and that He will raise again on the third day.
John 10:17-18- "I have authority to lay it down and to raise it up again.""
Matthew states that Jesus states he knows the future. This was written after Jesus' crucifixion. We don't have evidence that this actually happened.

"5. He gives eternal life.
John 10:28- " I give them eternal life and they will never parish""
No evidence to prove that anyone was given eternal life. Taking this on faith is not a convincing argument for the divinity of any person.

I'll let you respond, as we have plenty of round to debate. :)
Debate Round No. 1
Jhessa

Pro

Jhessa forfeited this round.
Valladarex

Con

Well that's unfortunate. If pro wishes to reply, he can respond to my earlier comments.
Debate Round No. 2
Jhessa

Pro

Typically I get notified when someone accepts challenges. Must have missed it. Sorry about that Con.

"First of all I am convinced that God is very much real, alive and active. I believe He inspired men to write His word through His own guidance and because of this we can take Scripture as being authoritative on all of its subject matter. That being said."
I stated this at the beginning to give direction to the debate I was aiming for. Maybe I should have been more clear on this. I wanted to argue my points assuming the Scriptures were true. This was not meant to be a "prove the Bible in 5 easy steps" debate. I think this would've been clear realizing the only work I cited was the Bible.

Everyone of Con's rebuttals deals with the validity of the Bible. This is a separate debate all together.
Valladarex

Con

""First of all I am convinced that God is very much real, alive and active. I believe He inspired men to write His word through His own guidance and because of this we can take Scripture as being authoritative on all of its subject matter. That being said."
I stated this at the beginning to give direction to the debate I was aiming for. Maybe I should have been more clear on this. I wanted to argue my points assuming the Scriptures were true. This was not meant to be a "prove the Bible in 5 easy steps" debate."


I assumed you were stating your beliefs. It seems like most people wishing to debate the existence and divinity of Jesus make it clear that they believe in the bible. You made no indication that I should have also assumed the bible is true.

"I think this would've been clear realizing the only work I cited was the Bible."

I've actually had plenty of debates where Christians use the bible as their primary source of evidence for the existence of the God of the bible. I totally assumed you doing the same.


That being said, I'm sorry this debate didn't turn out they way you wanted it. The title did say "Is Jesus deity?". This usually assumes the debate could be about whether or not Jesus is a deity and whether or not there is convincing evidence for it. If you wish to try to debate this claim without faith-based assumptions, I'd love to continue.

If not, then I guess that's the end of this. I have no intention of trying to using the bible to show that Jesus isn't a deity.
Debate Round No. 3
Jhessa

Pro

Jhessa forfeited this round.
Valladarex

Con

Looks like there won't be a debate.
Debate Round No. 4
Jhessa

Pro

Jhessa forfeited this round.
Valladarex

Con

Vote con, as pro failed to prove his resolution.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Jhessa 3 years ago
Jhessa
I think you are right. Next time I will be more clear.
Posted by YouShallKnow 3 years ago
YouShallKnow
Hello Jhessa!^^,

I think you've intended this to debate to be between two Christians/Bible-believers (or at least, a debate under an assumption that all of what the Bible says is true).

But then, you haven't clarified it well, and so you've got the wrong opponent (a Bible-unbeliever)!hehe

Or so it seems.. hehe
Posted by Jhessa 3 years ago
Jhessa
Thank you for the heads up I was looking to engage them. I do understand why they would steer clear of this sort of thing.
Posted by philochristos 3 years ago
philochristos
I asked on the religion forum a while back if there were any Jehovah's Witnesses on this site. There turned out to be a couple, but unfortunately, they don't participate in formal debates. I hope you find a good opponent, though.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
JhessaValladarexTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious. If anyone thinks I need a real RFD for this debate, P.M. me and I'll write one.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
JhessaValladarexTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF for conduct, plus not defending his claims.