The Instigator
willemtoerien
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Betsy123
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Is Jesus the Sabbath

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
willemtoerien
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/16/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 615 times Debate No: 71750
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

willemtoerien

Con

Introduction

I see Christians all over posting how Jesus is the Sabbath, but the scriptures nowhere states this explicitly. The scriptures they usually provide are unrelated, vague, opinionated and contradictory.


They would usually refer to texts such as Matthew 11:28-30, or Hebrews 4:1-11


Matthew 11:28-30

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. – Matthew 11:28-30



The words used for “rest” in Greek is in verse 28, “anapauo” and in verse 29 “anapausis”.



Anapauo #G373: Take ease, to refresh.


Anapausis #G372: Tranquility.



I also want to define the word “yoke” here:



Zugos #G2218: Servitude.



So the text with its proper interpretation reads:



Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you ease. Take my servitude upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find tranquillity unto your souls. For my servitude is easy, and my burden is light. – Matthew 11:28-30



The whole chapter of Matthew 11 has nothing to do with the voiding fourth commandment. On the contrary, it is about yielding yourself servant unto Jesus and not unto sin as the cities did, more specifically the wise and the prudent.



Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? – Romans 6:16



Hebrews 4:1-11

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. – Hebrews 4:1-11



Paul was quoting verse 3 from Psalms 95:11:



Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. – Psalms 95:11



So psalmist that wrote this didn’t need to keep the Sabbath day holy as he’s clearly entered into God’s rest? The Hebrew word for “rest” in Psalms 95:11 is “m’nûchâh” which means abode, a place of resting, judging from the context of Psalms 95, the kingdom of God.



M’nûchâh #H4496: Abode, a place of resting, house, kingdom of God



So now let’s look at the Greek translations first and then I’ll put them in the text:



Katapauo #G2664: To cease or desist from labour. In Hebrew: “shâbath”.


Katapausis #G2663: Abode, a place of resting, house, kingdom of God. In Hebrew: m’nûchâh (#H4496).


Sabbatismos #G4520: “Sabbat-“ is a transliteration of the Hebrew word “shâbath”. “-ismos” means to keep. Thus word means the keeping of the Sabbath day.


Apeitheia #G543: Disobedience or willful unbelief.



And now for their interpretations:



Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his kingdom (katapausis), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into the kingdom (katapausis), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my kingdom (katapausis): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did cease (katapau!3;) the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my kingdom (katapausis). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of disobedience or willful unbelief (apeitheia): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them the kingdom (katapausis), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a keeping of the Sabbath (sabbatismos) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his house (katapausis), he also hath ceased (katapau!3;) from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that kingdom (katapausis), lest any man fall after the same example of disobedience or willful unbelief (apeitheia). – Hebrews 4:1-11



Israel was under the impression that the coming of the Messiah would come and free them from the servitude (yoke) of the Romans and establish an earthly kingdom and be their king. However, Jesus’ first coming was to first set them free from the bondage (yoke) of sin in dying as a humble man. So Jesus told them (verse 8) that there is another day of visitation. The fourth commandment was used as an example that we should keep it least we become an example of disobedience or wilful unbelief.


Betsy123

Pro

First I would like for you to go to this link, so you would have a better understanding about this.

http://www.gotquestions.org...

As you can see Jesus is the Sabbath.
Debate Round No. 1
willemtoerien

Con


The PRO relied on just linking a web page to make her argument for her. So, I’ll address the web page as if it was the PRO’s argument.


“The origin of the Sabbath goes back to Creation. After creating the heavens and the earth in six days, God "rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made" (Genesis 2:2). This doesn’t mean that God was tired and needed a rest. We know that God is omnipotent, literally "all-powerful." …, He never tires, and His most arduous expenditure of energy does not diminish His power one bit. So, what does it mean that God rested on the seventh day? Simply that He stopped what He was doing. He ceased from His labors.”


This I agree with. The word “rest” in English has a vast variety of different meanings and interpretations. It can mean “to cease”, “to relax”, “to sleep”, or even “to die”. A person reading the word can easily misinterpret it. The Hebrew word used for “rested” is the word “shâbath” which means “to cease”, not “to take repose”.



Shâbath #7673: To cease or desist from labour.



Then the PRO concludes in the first paragraph:


“This is important in understanding the establishment of the Sabbath day and the role of Christ as our Sabbath rest.”


By that definition you would conclude Christ means you will not have to work anymore. Before we jump to assumptions, let’s continue with the argument.


“God used the example of His resting on the seventh day of Creation to establish the principle of the Sabbath day rest for His people. In Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, God gave the Israelites the fourth of His Ten Commandments.”


Here the PRO suggests that God established the Sabbath day in Exodus 20:8-11. This is not true. The fourth commandment was established long before Jacob.



And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. – Genesis 2:3



To sanctify means to set something apart for holy use:



Qâdash #H6942: To set something or someone apart for holy use.



So Genesis 2:3 reads like this:



And God blessed the seventh day, and set it to be set apart for holy use… – Genesis 2:3a



The Sabbath is a memorial that God is the creator. As I recall, the Israelites had seven days even before Exodus…


“The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labours comes into play”


We just read that the Sabbath was a memorial of God being the creator. Nothing was written of it being attributed to the coming of the Messiah. Furthermore, again, is the suggestion here that the Messiah is going to provide a means not to work anymore.


“With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly "laboring" to make themselves acceptable to God.”


No scripture is provided by the PRO and this is why: The PRO is saying here that the Israelites could save themselves through their labouring. What does this labouring include?


“Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc.”


But scripture says you are saved by grace through faith.



For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: – Ephesians 2:8


For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. – Romans 4:13


Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people. – Exodus 33:13



“God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily”


Yes. He had them made a pattern of something which already existed. These pointed to Christ. For example, if you break the fourth commandment, you had to sacrifice:


“…sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross”


Let’s continue.


“(Hebrews 10:12). Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever.”


According to the pattern… After the sacrifice, did the high priest then rest, cease from his labour of atonement? No. There is still a holy place He had to enter, then after a most holy place, the sprinkling of blood, etc. Did you know after the sacrifice of the Christ, Christ became the High Priest in the heavenly tabernacle to which the earthly was just a pattern?



But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; – Hebrews 9:11



So no, Christ hasn’t stopped labouring. All Hebrews 10 in summary was saying is that the earthly sanctuary can never take away sins, only the blood of the Lamb can. It was only a pattern to the heavenly sacrificial system.



And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: – Hebrews 10:11



It has nothing to do with the creation and the seventh day Sabbath.


“Because of what He did, we no longer have to "labor" in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God”


Again, here the PRO says that before Jesus, the Israelites could be justified by keeping the law.


“Another element of the Sabbath day rest which God instituted as a foreshadowing of our complete rest in Christ is that He blessed it, sanctified it, and made it holy.”


The verse itself contradicts this statement. The seventh day wasn’t created as a foreshadowing, but as a memorial that God is the creator.



And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. – Genesis 2:3



“God sanctified Christ, just as He sanctified the Sabbath day”


Your wife is sanctified unto her husband and vice versa. Israel was sanctified unto God. Your first born was sanctified unto God. Just because something is sanctified doesn’t show it’s relation to the seventh day. All it means is as I have quoted. “To be set apart for holy use.”


“In Him we find complete rest from the labors of our self-effort.”


Again, here is a statement that before Jesus you could save yourself in keeping laws.


“We can now cease from our spiritual labors and rest in Him, not just one day a week, but always.”


The fourth commandment was nothing spiritual. This is spiritualizing the commandment away. For example, then a woman can argue, “Christ is my spiritual husband. Therefore no longer need to faithful to my physical husband.”


“Jesus can be our Sabbath rest in part because He is "Lord of the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:8).”


Just because Jesus is the creator of the Sabbath doesn’t conclude that He can be the Sabbath rest. Jesus is also Lord of the marriage as He created them male and female. Can they then commit adultery because of this? Of course not.


“When the Pharisees criticized Him for healing on the Sabbath, Jesus reminded them that even they, sinful as they were, would not hesitate to pull a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath. Because He came to seek and save His sheep who would hear His voice (John 10:3,27) and enter into the Sabbath rest He provided by paying for their sins, He could break the Sabbath rules.”


This is not at all the context. The Pharisees tempted Christ of breaking the fourth commandment, but Christ showed that it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath day.



How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. – Matthew 12:12



So no, Christ did not break the Sabbath rules as the PRO says, and became a transgressor of the law (a sinner) but magnified it and made it honourable.


“By saying, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27), Jesus was restating the principle that the Sabbath rest was instituted to relieve man of his labors”


First, the Sabbath as I have shown was created as a memorial that God is the creator. Not to relieve man of his labours. Secondly, all laws are created for man’s benefit.



O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! – Deuteronomy 5:29



“just as He came to relieve us of our attempting to achieve salvation by our works”


Again, a statement that before Jesus people could save themselves through the keeping of the laws.


“We no longer rest for only one day, but forever cease our laboring to attain God’s favour”


Another statement that we no should technically cease working.


“The writer to the Hebrews exhorts his readers to "enter in" to the Sabbath rest provided by Christ.”


If the PRO read my opening argument, she would see that this is not the case. The term “enter into my rest” actually means “enter into my kingdom (rest=katapausis)”. See my opening argument for more information.


Ironically, the PRO knows this:


“God denied that generation access to the holy land, saying, "They shall not enter into My rest" (Hebrews 3:11)”


Then I have a question. Why is it one place (using the same word, katapausis) holy land and the other place ceasing? This makes no sense.


“There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus”


Last time I checked, we still have a seventh day. Why not six as the seventh day is no longer needed?


“He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law”


The PRO is a bit confused. Earlier the PRO states that people had to justify themselves in the keeping of the law, now the PRO states that only Christ can do that?


“He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works”


Now PRO goes back and state that before Christ people had to redeem themselves in their own works.


Betsy123

Pro

Betsy123 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
willemtoerien

Con

Awaiting PRO's counter argument...
Betsy123

Pro

Betsy123 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
willemtoerien

Con

Still awaiting PRO's response...
Betsy123

Pro

Betsy123 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
willemtoerien

Con

PRO failed to have a response to my arguments.
Betsy123

Pro

Betsy123 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by willemtoerien 2 years ago
willemtoerien
@That1User

Correct. Still no implication of it refering to Jesus. The only thing coming close to the term in refering to Jesus in regards to the word "rest" are:
Jesus gives us tranquility (rest=anapauo/anapausis)
We enter into His Kingdom (rest=katapausis)
Posted by That1User 2 years ago
That1User
"Remember the Sabbath Day and keep it holy" -Exodus 20:8. When discussing the Sabbath, it is commonly use to discuss the day of the week in which the Jews rested (as well as Christians.) Thus, Sabbath rest means the rest of the Sabbath.
Posted by willemtoerien 2 years ago
willemtoerien
@That1User

I don't think there is such a distinction between "Sabbath" and "Sabbath rest".

The word "rest" has many different interpretations and meanings. It can mean, "to cease", "to relax" or even "to die." The word "Sabbath" means "to cease or desist from labour". It would be quite pointless to say, "Sabbath rest" for it would literally means "to cease to cease". Scriptures no where indicates that "Jesus is our Sabbath 'rest'" or that "Jesus is our Sabbath"

They proclaim Jesus to be the Sabbath as to say you no longer keep the fourth commandment.
Posted by That1User 2 years ago
That1User
Ah okay, thank you. I think an important distincition is to be made between Sabbath and Sabbath Rest. The Sabbath is a day of the week, while a Sabbath rest is the rest found in the Sabbath. Rest is defined as: "cease of work or movement in order to relax, refresh oneself, or recover strength." -Google. Since Jesus provides peace, Jesus provides rest like the Sabbath provides rest. Jesus also allowed for people to work on the Sabbath, and I think the peace that Jesus provides subsitutes the need for the Sabbath. I think this is what people are trying to say when they say "Jesus is our Sabbath Rest."
Posted by willemtoerien 2 years ago
willemtoerien
@That1User:

""May you please provide a link where people say Jesus is the Sabbath?""

There are many, but here are two as an example:
http://www.ldolphin.org...
http://www.gotquestions.org...
Posted by That1User 2 years ago
That1User
May you please provide a link where people say Jesus is the Sabbath? I never heard people say that before, perhaps I am out of the loop of Sabbathianity.
Posted by That1User 2 years ago
That1User
What? Why would Jesus be the Sabbath? The Sabbath is a day of the weak where Jews rested, and Jesus is the Son of God according to Christians. This Resolution doesn't make sense, lol.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Varrack 2 years ago
Varrack
willemtoerienBetsy123Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro FF'd and failed to give any arguments.