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Is King Dedede One of the Best Characters in Super Smash Bros for Wiiu/3DS? Reissue

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/19/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,258 times Debate No: 80754
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
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Note: this is a reissue of a previous debate I failed to make time to argue in.
Here are the rules:
1) Debaters will make their statements using lists, such as this one, but they can use any form of it (1. 2. 3. , a. b. c., etc.). I will use this one that the rules are made of.
3) Debaters will list at least one source of information to back up their arguments. The same source can be used for different arguments, but a source must be listed on all arguments made.
4) The category says games; however, pretend it says video games or something similar.
This was my original argument when I first issued this debate:
"My first argument is that King Dedede is not low on the smashboards tier list. he is #26 of 48. Here is the link: There is another tier list I would like to mention, which can be found at, And King Dedede is one of the second best characters."
I make another argument: Just because King Dedede is slow doesn't mean he has potential. Players who practice may adapt to his speed.


Great to meet a fellow smasher!
Put forth your contention.
Debate Round No. 1


Thank you for accepting the challenge. I make 4 points. Prima Games is the source for all of these.
1) King Dedede is the 3rd heaviest character. This is good because then it is harder for opponents to launch him.
2) Despite being a heavyweight, King Dedede has multiple jumps, allowing him a better recovery and aerial mobility.
3) King Dedede's attacks have good range, good knockback, and do massive damage. His side smash, though it has long startup, has incredible range and can do up to 24% damage! Even his dash attack can KO lighter opponents with under 100% damage! King Dedede's throws also have good range.
4) King Dedede is great at edge-guarding. Since he has a good recovery, he can jump off the stage, suck opponents in, spit them out, and still be able to recover. If this doesn't work, or if King Dedede wants to stay on the stage, he can just through a gordo at the opponent. Gordos are interesting when it comes to edge-guarding.

So as you can see, King Dedede has many strengths that prove that he is a good character in Super Smash Bros.


'King Dedede is the 3rd heaviest character. This is good because then it is harder for opponents to launch him.'
This comes coupled, however with the responsibility of having a huge hurtbox(compared to top tiers such as Mario, Zamus, Sheik etc.) This, coupled with his weight, makes him combo food- Sheik fairplanes him to death, Mario can juggle him with D-throw and fastfall Uair. Dedede has no combo breaking moves[1], therefore he can't get out of these easy combos. His fastest move comes out only on frame 6, which is pathetically slow compared to, for example, Mario, who has excellent frame data,[2] with a frame 2 jab and a combo-breaking Nair which comes out on frame 3 (extremely fast).

A image illustrating the size of Dedede's hurtbox

Dedede has an excellent recovery, but since Sm4sh recoveries are easily the best in the series (excluding Brawl MK), this is irrelevant. Dedede does NOT have good aerial mobility, because he's so slow. His air speed is the worst in the game[3].

In addition to this, however, they have loads of starting and ending lag. This makes him one of the most punishable characters in the game(like Ganondorf), because if he whiffs one, it's a free grab. His side smash is entirely telegraphed, and is easily avoidable. His dash attack is hysterically bad, it's even more telegraphed than side smash. Dedede's throws are nothing to write home about, the dthrow Uair chaingrab can be avoided by airdodging or good DI.

No. He has a terrible edgeguard game. His moves are all so slow that they are easily airdodgeable. Gordo is very bad for edgeguarding, as if you hit it (with a 3 frame Nair,say) it goes back towards Dedede.

C1 Bad matchups
According to smashboards, the best source that we have for smashbros, Dedede's matchups against high tier characters are terribad.
65:35 to Diddy(zoned by banana, juggled, peanuts)
50:50to Rosaluma(I disagree, Dedede is juggled by Rosaluma to death)
70:30(unwinnable) to Zamus(strong punish game)
65:35to Sonic(2fsat4u)
55:45 to Yoshi(Eggs, sikk punish game)
60:40 to Falcon, Villager, Pikachu, Luigi and Mario(Falcon styles, Villager slingshot shuts dedede down, Pikachu is in combo heaven, and so are Mario and Luigi)
65:35 to Fox(great air game vs a terrible one)
65:35 to Megaman(lemons and projectiles shut dedede down)
60:40 to Ness(Pk Fiya, PK Fiya and the back-throw)
60:40 to MK (BEFORE buffs)

It's pretty clear that Dedede has a hard time with top tiers. This makes him not a good character by the rules of tier lists.

The slowness with which his moves come out means he must be a bait and punish character. However, Gordo is not a good enough projectile to zone properly with- it's slow and predictable. He's basically like Ganondorf, but with better recovery.

This has been fun! I look forward to next round.

Debate Round No. 2


In this round I will counter my opponent's arguments. I make 5 points. (Note that they are not in the same order that con stated con's arguments)

1) Dedede's special moves are undeniably awesome. First, the Gordo throw, which Prima Games says is your best bet if "opponents are just trying to camp you." Moreover, "[Gordos] are... powerful yet consistent projectiles that can deal up to 14% damage with knockback that can KO under 150%, which makes them [extremely] reliable and useful on average.... The ability to bounce the Gordos in different trajectories also gives the move greater trapping capabilities. The hammer swing in the initiation of the move additionally produces its own hitbox that deals 12%, which can also hit opponents into the subsequently tossed Gordo for immense damage." [1] "Gordo Toss is one of the most important moves in your kit and, while being a double edged sword, has amazing potential." [2] Dedede's neutral special can, according to Prima Games, be used as a ranged counter. King Dedede is invincible on startup. Furthermore, King Dedede can heal by eating items. Healing items recover 50% more damage if you eat them!

2) My opponent admits that, ' Dedede has an excellent recovery, but since Sm4sh recoveries are easily the best in the series...' Even though Sm4sh recoveries are the best in the series, King Dedede has ONE OF THE BEST IN THE GAME[2][3], that means that he has one of the best recoveries in the whole series. Compared to other fighters, Dedede has great recovery, and Con just uses the excuse that most recoveries are good in Sm4sh.

3) "[DEDEDE'S DASH ATTACK] IS THE BEST ATTACK EVER. INSANE KNOCKBACK. YOU FALL ON YOUR FACE AND PEOPLE DIE. Seriously... [It] can be very strong in certain situations. First of all, the hitbox is disjointed and can hit an opponent under the stage or on a ledge. If you get the timing right this will destroy anyone trying to recover/sitting on the ledge without invincibility. Also, it is great for punishing landing lag, wait until they are vulnerable, then catch them out for an easy kill." "KD3 has a fairly average grab range, but great options when throwing the opponent. FThrow and BThrow are both reasonable options, but DThrow has great combo potential, so we want to be using that the most." "Down throw is the only one worth talking about in my opinion, so here we go. It has amazing combo potential, and depending on the opponent and percentage you can either follow it up with an aerial of your choice."

4) King Dedede can strike back at Mario. [4]

5) "[O]nline, not a lot of players know how to deal with him..." [5]



Uhh, okay.

R1 Please name a projectile that is
a) As slow as Gordo, with Gordo only being generated on frame 6[1] and becoming active on frame 28[2]. Compare that to Mario's fireball, active on frame 17[3], or Sheik's needles(frame 5!)[4], both excellent zoning tools.
b)Can be hit back at the user without the aid of a reflector.
Neutral special is poor, and is only useful as a gimping tool(Nair is much better for that)

If we look at Pro's source, Dedede has the 3rd best recovery in the game. However, this is pretty irrelevant. Most characters have an excellent recovery. The purpose of recovery is simply to get back to the stage. Dedede's recovery also suffers from the same problem as Duck Hunt's- there's no hitbox on the top.[5] This makes him gimpable, along with his huge hurtbox.

Uhh, no. It's extremely telegraphed. Even with the new shieldstun, it's the simplest of things to shield or spotdodge, It has poor knockback for such long startup and ending.

Dedede's throws are okay, but he lacks a kill throw.

This is cute, but this was done against a CPU. This means that it will have no DI. With proper DI, this combo is escapable at 15-odd percent.[6]

For Glory is filled with scrubs. It's pretty irrelevant to use it as evidence.
Anther's Ladder is better, but if we look at statistics [7] Dedede does pretty poorly against the likes of Sheik, Diddy, Mario, Ness etc.

BoP is on Pro.
However, I do not feel that this debate has fully explored all the possibilities of Dedede. I've challenged my opponent to another debate, as an extension of this one. Please vote on that based on its own merits, and that of this debate.

6.)Labbing vs. Dedede
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Benjiboy960 2 years ago
Oh. Yeah. Do Sheik's needles make a gordo bounce back? As you say...
Posted by PointyDelta 2 years ago
More arguments next round.
Posted by PointyDelta 2 years ago
Your second tier list is very very bad.

Duck hunt in A?
Greninja in A?
Posted by KingofEverything 2 years ago
Very interesting. I love video games.
No votes have been placed for this debate.