The Instigator
Fallen_Angels
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
V5RED
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Is Marching Band a Sport?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
V5RED
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/13/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 600 times Debate No: 79677
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (20)
Votes (1)

 

Fallen_Angels

Pro

I believe that marching band is a sport because in the dictionary as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment. I am in Marching Band and I will tell you now that we practice just as much, if not more, than our school football team.

We physically exert ourselves trying to get to our spots in the correct amount of time, with even sized steps, and without trying to run into each other. Don't forget about the music either, we have to play it memorized, in time, while marching in time, watching the drum majors, and getting to our spots without injuring anyone.

You have to know where you are going. We also do a lot of the same stretches that the football team does. And by the end of rehearsal my band director says, 'if you aren't tired then you didn't exert yourself enough' you have to exert yourself physically, which is part of the definition of a sport, and mentally. It isn't as easy as most people thing.

Also, the brass have to hold their instruments at least ten degrees above parallel the entire ten to fifteen minute show. The low brass have it the worst because we have huge bells and, to be honest, I think the tubas have it the worst because they have to carry about 40 feet of brass on their shoulder. We also go to competitions like the soccer and football teams. We are also scoring points on how well we're doing. If the football or soccer teams do bad they don't score. But, they don't have five judges walking with them on the field and then three more about 60 feet away from them.

You cannot use the 'band kids are out of shape' argument either. If you look at the football team, there are some out of shape guys, just like in the band.

We also march seasonally. Football is a fall sport, at least at my school, where as at my school, we have two weeks of camp learning the music and the fundamentals of how to march correctly in the summer, we march all fall, and then we don't stop until after the Christmas Parade.

Now, I know for a fact that concert band isn't a sport because you sit and play your instrument there, and you don't have to have good horn angles. But, it really makes me mad when people say marching band isn't a sport because we work just as hard, if not harder, than the other sports by doing what I described earlier, but just in case you forgot, I'll say them again.

We have to keep good horn angles, at least 10 degrees above parallel, we have to get to our spots on different places on the field in the correct amount of time, keep our feet in time, watch the drum majors, play the songs in time, play the songs memorized, think about where you're going next (I didn't mention that one), take equal sized steps.

Now, one I forgot to mention was to march correctly, if you're forwards marching you have to put your toes way up in the air and take roll steps. When you are backwards marching, you have to go up on your toes and not drop down as you take the steps.

Another one that I forgot to mention is that we have everything below our hips face the direction we're going while our upper bodies are facing the bleachers. There will be moments that we get to face the direction of travel, but that if for the general effect, which we get judged on.

Also, you have to keep in the form and in your lines front to back. This means that you have to be even more aware of the area around you so that way you don't march into someone, but you also have to keep your lines and spacing left to right and front to back. Even if you know what you're doing and you do it completely right and everyone else in your line does it completely wrong, you are wrong because you didn't keep the form.

We have to pay more attention and be more mentally aware of the surroundings because you can't tackle anyone, but we also have to exert ourselves physically. If you want proof of how hard it can be, go see if you can watch a rehearsal and also see if you want to try what we do, because you also aren't allowed to bob up and down while marching.

Everyone thinks that it's easy, but it really isn't. You have to keep the correct posture, the correct form, even the correct form of marching because if your are out of step or bobbing up and down it's really obvious that you are wrong. If you don't think it's a sport fine, but in my mind it will forever be a sport because I know just how much effort it takes, especially when competing against other bands because you have to not be nervous after seeing them perform really well so you can march well. Just remember, if you go and try to march and you haven't ever done it before, you will crash and burn if you try to do it because marching isn't the way you see it done in movies. And one more small thing, I didn't realize that the other teams in school were asked to march in the parade section of the Maple Leaf Festival.
V5RED

Con

This could easily turn into a lexical argument(that is an argument that only exists because we are using the same word to refer to different concepts, not because we actually believe different concepts)

I will concede every single thing you said regarding your training and effort, but is it reasonable to refer to an activity as sport because of the training and effort involved?

Beauty contests also require massive amounts of training and effort. The women need to exercise and diet to maintain a slim figure, they often need to also be able to perform some sort of talent while having had very little food for the past few days, and as implied in the name, it is a competition because there is a winner and a loser.

Professional wrestling is incredibly difficult to perform correctly, the performers need to be in incredible shape and have incredible skill both in the ring and on the microphone and they are "in season" the entire year. There is a competition. The outcomes of the matches are predetermined, but they are, on average, determined by the popularity of a wrestler which is determined by his or her performance in the ring and on the microphone. Thus the competition exists, albeit indirectly. They arguably work harder than any competitor in any sport. That said, professional wrestling is not considered a sport.

Strippers, especially pole dancers, need to keep themselves in shape and they compete in that all the strippers in the strip club are trying to acquire a finite amount of money that has been brought to the club by its patrons.

If you think marching band should fit into the category of sport, then you should also think that beauty contests, professional wrestling, stripping fit into that category. Do you think those three are sports? If so, why not?

I reserve the term sport for physically demanding competitions where your performance is directly influencing that of your opponent. I am not even sure if golf should be considered a sport since you do not require an opponent to play a full game of golf.
Debate Round No. 1
Fallen_Angels

Pro

I hadn't originally known anything about beauty contests before, but now that you mention the others that aren't considered sports, yes I do consider them sports. Not only because of training, but because you have to work hard when your either A) performing or B) in a match.

But, I think that Marching Band should be considered a sport because, yes we train, but we are out on the field every weekday morning at 7:00 AM.

I believe that it is honestly misconception that Marching Band is easy when it isn't as easy as it looks. Do you think a person who's never marched before is going to get the hang of it really fast? I don't, only because we have to multitask which is actually insanely hard when you aren't used to it.

In band there are also winners and losers, like in football, if you lose the play offs then you're done for the season. Now, in band we don't do that, but we do go to competitions where there is a winner and loser. First, we have the first round, where they decide the ten out of, normally, thirty to fifty bands that get to go to finals. Then in finals, the judges decide based off of how well you march, how well you know your music, and have your torsos facing towards the bleachers when you aren't supposed to face the direction of travel.

Also, I believe that anything that requires exerting yourself physically and has competitions, should be a sport. I'm not sure if stripping or golf should be sports, but I do know that they require hard work and training, so I'm leaning more towards yes.

I had never known that wrestling wasn't a sport until now. I had always considered it one because, in the little bit of wrestling I have seen, it takes a lot of effort, training, and keeping in shape.

I had never watched beauty contests because the one time I tried to watch one, it didn't matter if they didn't want to do it or not, there was someone that forced them to.

Now that I know some things that are examples of things not considered sports, I think not only marching band, but the others are sports as well.
V5RED

Con

I already conceded that marching bands work hard, there was no need to bring it up again.

Professional wrestling is not a sport, amateur wrestling(what high schoolers, college students, and olympians compete in) is a sport.

I am surprised you accept stripping, beauty pageants, and professional wrestling as sports. Is there any physical activity you would not consider a sport? My mother walks her dogs over 10 miles per day, is she participating in a sport? A person being filmed in a sex scene for pornography must be in good shape to perform for so long. Is porn a sport? Movers have to work very hard to move things from one place to another. Is moving a sport?

When you say sport do you really just mean physical activity? If so, then it would seem you have watered the word down so much as to render it useless when you say it.
Debate Round No. 2
Fallen_Angels

Pro

I know that you've conceded that they are hard work, but I honestly think that if they have a competition and they have to be active in order to reach a certain standard that it should be a sport, no porn is not a sport because there is no national competition to see who's better.

No, walking a dog isn't a sport, the people walking the dogs are doing it for the dogs sake, not because they want to all the time.

And you may say that Marching Band is a sport but, the definition of a sport is: activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

We don't have join band so not only do we entertain ourselves, we entertain the others who actually watch and listen to us.

Did you know that in marching band, we have to drink at least two cups of water a water break so nobody passes out from dehydration? It's even more at football games and competitions, it is because we are physically exerting ourselves (the definition of sport) so much. And don't turn that back to hard work because by that definition, the football team is just doing a lot of hard work.

And do we score points? Yes. Physical activity? Yes. I know you don't think it's a sport, but my point isn't to convince you, it's to convince everyone else.

And yeah, we do work hard, you don't want to leave with a bloody nose or a broken jaw, you better pay attention because it is as much physical activity as it is mental. Even if something happens, you have got to make sure you keep marching and playing or else you will get a long lecture from the coach about how it's your fault that you made the team lose.

I would also like to see a football player put marching shoes on and march the way we do.

Drum Core runs a mile a day to make sure that they are able to do what they need to do to entertain others (entertainment is also part of the definition of sport.)

And while you consider things like baseball, soccer, and track as sports because they are physically demanding. But, marching band is more physically demanding.

Playing the instruments take up a lot of air, for most of our music we are pretty much running because the tempo of the song, but even using that much air and walking is difficult.

Also, I would love to see someone stand with their upper bodies facing one way while their hips and below face another. Because if you think it's easy to stay like that for 10 minutes for the shows and then the hour that we are moving like that in rehearsals. Do you get abs from how you move in soccer, football, basketball, or baseball?

Have you ever tried to march correctly over a football field? Because I think that you think it is easier than what you are letting on.

People don't commonly know that we stretch for band. But we have to unless we want to be injured later on. We also run so that way we can build up enough stamina and breath support to play strong throughout the entire show.

Is there physical activity? Yes. Do we go to competitions? Yes. Do we score points? Yes. Is there teamwork involved? Yes.

For the teamwork, you have to trust that everyone else knows where they are going in order to keep the form correct. If the person to your right, since we guide right, is wrong or the person in front of you is wrong, you still cover down to them to make them look like they're right. Because if you don't, it doesn't matter if you were right or not, you were still wrong. So, you have to do the sportsman like thing.

We also have to keep ourselves from breaking from set. It doesn't matter if a bee lands on you or your instrument or if your arms are burning.

Now, try imagining carrying a tuba while keeping your upper body from moving while marching at 180 beats per measure. It may sound easy, but easier said than done.

Marching Band isn't like what Taylor Swift thinks we do or what Spongebob thinks we do. They make it seem like all we do is either sit in the bleachers or fool around.

That isn't the concept at all. Do you know a high school team that practices for at least two hours five days a week? Because I don't.
V5RED

Con

I had to fish through your reply for anything new that I had not already accepted. Here is your reply with anything that has already been accepted by me removed

"porn is not a sport because there is no national competition to see who's better.

No, walking a dog isn't a sport, the people walking the dogs are doing it for the dogs sake, not because they want to all the time.

And you may say that Marching Band is a sport but, the definition of a sport is: activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

We don't have join band so not only do we entertain ourselves, we entertain the others who actually watch and listen to us.

And do we score points? Yes. Physical activity? Yes. I know you don't think it's a sport, but my point isn't to convince you, it's to convince everyone else."
http://www.nydailynews.com...
https://en.wikipedia.org...
There appear to be porn competitions and there is a national judging panel to see who was the best, so porn must be a sport.

I do not agree with your definition of sport. I said that from the beginning, and there is no one definition for the term. Your definition fails because it is too broad. A rock off contest fits that definition. A dance competition fits. An eating contest fits.
Debate Round No. 3
Fallen_Angels

Pro

You had said nothing about our point system so please tell me how that is different from other sports.

And if I am not a legal adult yet and I am a fairly innocent person, how was I supposed to know that there were competitions? And no, porn isn't a sport because it is for personal pleasure and pleasure for the creeps of the world.

And actually, the definition of sport that you don't like is the definition that's in the dictionary, if you don't believe me, look it up. And if you actually took my advice here, you know that it isn't one that I just randomly made up.

I actually consider dance a sport too because they have practice, competitions and are judged based off of how well they do.

And I have no reason to see why an eating contest is one because all you do is eat and get out of shape. It isn't physical exertion. I thought you out of all people would have seen that, you know, seeing as you seem to think that you are about 100% smarter than I am.

But still, not the point. We're supposed to be talking about marching band, not everything else that you would think is a sport, you got off topic.

And to be honest, do you honestly think that I would have started this debate if I wanted to talk about every other sport?

Please tell me how you think marching band isn't a sport because all you have said is that it isn't a sport, but you have given me no real reasons why.

I'm actually willing to bet that in a marching band rehearsal we do more work than some sports teams because we run the show several times, we learn normally seven to ten new sets a rehearsal, and then we go back and add the music while cleaning all of the work we did too. And I know you admitted that we do work hard, but the dictionary's definition of sport is what I have already said twice, even if you don't agree with it.

For most sports, and I mean the stuff high school does, I don't see them carrying around heavy objects. A football isn't heavy, a soccer ball isn't heavy, a volleyball isn't heavy, and a basket ball isn't heavy.

And even though you don't think that it's a sport, the definition disagrees. Marching Band and the definition of sport get along very well and there are people that don't see that they pretty much go hand in hand.
V5RED

Con

"You had said nothing about our point system so please tell me how that is different from other sports."
Most sports have points based on objective criteria. Some of the criteria for marching band are objective, like being in sync. Some are subjective, like whether the performance conveys a mood to the audience. My objection to your scoring system is that it is not necessarily based on what was done, but on how the judges feel about it. That, however is not the main reason I do not consider it a sport. My main objection is that your performance has no effect whatsoever on your opponent. I do not consider a performance that does not require, and is not influenced by, an opponent to be a sport. Even racing is influenced by your opponent. You will run harder and faster if you face better opponents.
http://sunnyslope.guhsdaz.org...

"And if I am not a legal adult yet and I am a fairly innocent person, how was I supposed to know that there were competitions? And no, porn isn't a sport because it is for personal pleasure and pleasure for the creeps of the world."
Marching band is a sport because it is for the pleasure of the audience, but porn is not because it is for the pleasure of the audience? That makes no sense.

"And actually, the definition of sport that you don't like is the definition that's in the dictionary, if you don't believe me, look it up. And if you actually took my advice here, you know that it isn't one that I just randomly made up."
The definition you find in one dictionary is in no way binding or absolute. It is just how the manufacturers of that book define the word. There are many dictionaries with different definitions. It is a fallacy to assert that your dictionary is the only one that can be used.

"a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other"
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

"a R03;game, R03;competition, or R03;similar R03;activity, done for R03;enjoyment or as a R03;job, that R03;takes R03;physical R03;effort and R03;skill and is R03;played or done by R03;following R03;particular R03;rules"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org...

"And I have no reason to see why an eating contest is one because all you do is eat and get out of shape. It isn't physical exertion."
Yes it is. People train for eating competitions. I have watched documentaries on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com...

" I thought you out of all people would have seen that, you know, seeing as you seem to think that you are about 100% smarter than I am."
I never said I am smarter than you or anyone else. I have no way to prove that or even a definition for smart.

"But still, not the point. We're supposed to be talking about marching band, not everything else that you would think is a sport, you got off topic."
Discussing various things that are clearly sports is helpful in evaluating whether something that is not clearly a sport should or should not be considered a sport.

"I'm actually willing to bet that in a marching band rehearsal we do more work than some sports teams because we run the show several times, we learn normally seven to ten new sets a rehearsal, and then we go back and add the music while cleaning all of the work we did too. And I know you admitted that we do work hard, but the dictionary's definition of sport is what I have already said twice, even if you don't agree with it.

For most sports, and I mean the stuff high school does, I don't see them carrying around heavy objects. A football isn't heavy, a soccer ball isn't heavy, a volleyball isn't heavy, and a basket ball isn't heavy.

And even though you don't think that it's a sport, the definition disagrees. Marching Band and the definition of sport get along very well and there are people that don't see that they pretty much go hand in hand."
Again, restating that you work hard is not helpful. Also, your definition is not something I am bound by. I never agreed to it nor was it stated in the conditions for the debate that it would be debated using that definition. You offered that definition in your opening, but you never limited the debate to it, and quite frankly it is a poor definition. It would mean that if people play soccer in an empty stadium it is no longer a sport because it is only about the competition at that point, not entertainment. Sports need not be entertaining to be sports. They only need to be physical competitions wherein your performance that day determines whether you win or lose and your performance has some sort of influence on your opponent.
Debate Round No. 4
Fallen_Angels

Pro

Fallen_Angels forfeited this round.
V5RED

Con

On to voting.
Debate Round No. 5
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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rasa sayang yang terus menerus meluap, heavy rotation

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i want you (i want you) i need you (i need you)
i love you (i love you) bertemu denganmu
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i want you (i want you) i need you (i need you)
i love you (i love you) di lubuk hatiku
rasa sayang yang terus menerus meluap, heavy rotation, heavy rotation
Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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hendrakazama24
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Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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Posted by hendrakazama24 1 year ago
hendrakazama24
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Posted by AlwaysTheRightChoice 1 year ago
AlwaysTheRightChoice
It really takes no skill to do marching band it took my class two tries to get it down perfectly when we did it but a real sport you have to play for your entire life to be good at it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
Fallen_AngelsV5REDTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeited