The Instigator
debate_power
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Themba
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Is Putin Right In Sending Troops Into Ukraine?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Themba
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/18/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 905 times Debate No: 54977
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

debate_power

Pro

The U.S. is backing what are clearly Neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine. Why doesn't someone start off by telling me why we're not? Give factual evidence, please, and while you're at it, tell me why Putin is wrong in invading or doing it only for the attainment of more wealth.
Themba

Con

I'm not a fan of either the east or west titan but I definitely have contentions when someone give Putin a free pass.

Race is not a valid casus belli
"Race is a social construct, not a scientific one" ~Dr Craig Venter

Mere invasion for the sake of race is in no way justifiable. It is just a social construct, brought up by society as scapegoats to justify their worthless ideology. Without considering other factors, race is one of the worst reasons we've come across and it is incredibly embarassing for Russia to use such a tactic. Not only that, East Ukraine has only about 40% of its constituents as russians, they're not even close to being the majority[1.http://en.wikipedia.org...]

As for Ukraine, well the resolution is about Putin, so Ukraine being facsict is an entirely different subject.

Thanks for the challenge btw.



Debate Round No. 1
debate_power

Pro

Ah, you see, but the thing is that fascism changes everything.
The Russians might be a minority, but the thing is that the people now in power in Ukraine hate Russians as much as they do Jews or Poles.
We all ought to know that's incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to crush an ideology, but a lot can be done to limit, if not remove, the power of people who subscribe to a form of ideology. The fact that there are Russians in East Ukraine, and that they are the largest minority, puts them at risk. The fact that these Russians wanted in the first place to secede from Ukraine puts them at risk. The fact is, they saw fascism and now Putin is just protecting them from the Ukrainian heads of state because we all know that when someone goes against a system they are more likely to get discriminated against. Everybody assumes that Putin is doing it for the natural resources in Crimea and other parts of Ukraine without considering that there actually might be a real threat to the lives of these Russians. So what you deem a worthless cause that is unjustified could just be a practical measure against reprisals. Moreover the means of invasion were hardly diabolical.
Themba

Con

Fascism is merely used to hide Russia's original intentions

This is one big hoax, just like Iraq, everything is about oil, always has been. look at the picture



An estimated 200 to 250 billion cubic metres of natural gas sits within the black sea.[2.http://www.nasdaq.com...]. Not to mention oil, so all you're saying is we'd have to discredit everything and claim Russia is shielding its races from Fascism? Nonsense. There is clearly oil, obviously Russia would fight for it. Ukraine has been depressed lately since their hopes of energy dependence have been shattered. Thus, Fascism is mainly a shield for Russia to cling to when invading. Obviously, they wouldn't want to show their actual goals, hence using Fascism.

Furthermore, Their true intention is Oil and Gas, which dwindles down our question...Does Putin have the right?
the big answer is no either way. I've already told that race barely qualifies as a casus belli let alone fighting for oil on foreign soil.

Thanks
Debate Round No. 2
debate_power

Pro

Dear opponent,
This argument, however intelligent, is taking up all my time and efforts.
I've thought about this over and over, for hours on end, and the more I think, the more I realize I can't win this argument.
I concede. I still think Putin is right in invading due to my opinions, and you think he's wrong because he's invaded another country and therefore he's violating international law.
I think it's futile on my side, not because I can't find evidence and facts to back things up, but because the things I can be sure of other than the existence of fascism are few and not adequate, and I think this all comes down to opinion in the end. I can't find any information that I can be completely sure is true due to the truly convoluted nature of this issue. I still hold my opinions.
In any case, I'm glad to have found such a worthy opponent and I congratulate you.
Regards,
debate_power
Themba

Con

Aww, you don't have to think that long, I'm sorry I strained you too much, I was just having fun over the utilities of this site. You don't need to, all I want is that you have fun over this debate.Yeap, don't take my word for it, Putin may be justified in his actions. Thanks for the congratulations btw!!!!

My opponent has conceded, please at least give him the conduct point for being so respectful.

VOTE CON

Thanks so much to debate_power
Debate Round No. 3
debate_power

Pro

debate_power forfeited this round.
Themba

Con

My opponent conceded previously. Extend all arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
debate_power

Pro

debate_power forfeited this round.
Themba

Con

I'd like to thank my opponent for his good conduct and thank him for his concession.

Vote CON due to concession.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by dmussi12 3 years ago
dmussi12
Their party is not officially anti-Semitic, and as far as I know, not even the majority are. I'm not totally familiar with the situation though so you may be right
Posted by Cowmaneater 3 years ago
Cowmaneater
well most of the people in the new Ukrainian government belong to the Svoboda party which was the Social-National Party of Ukraine and both are far right, anti Semitic, and hate ethic russians. and the US and the EU are supporting the current Ukraine government and even helped make it according to the leaked Nuland call.
Posted by dmussi12 3 years ago
dmussi12
Why don't you provide evidence that the US IS backing neo-nazis?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
debate_powerThembaTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by MetalheadWolfman 3 years ago
MetalheadWolfman
debate_powerThembaTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Observation
Vote Placed by ChosenWolff 3 years ago
ChosenWolff
debate_powerThembaTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, and superior arguments. Pro used R2 to staate his premise, with not the slightest in terms of factual knowledge.