The Instigator
evgeniakalogera
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TyJack11x
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Is Russia behind the war in Ukraine?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 795 times Debate No: 69602
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

evgeniakalogera

Con

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Opening Argument
Round 3: Rebuttal
Round 4: Closing Statement

My position in this debate is completely against.As we know today in Ukraine there is war.More precisely civil war between west and east Ukraine. Russia is not behind this and as an alternative it is the only country which trying to help the Ukrainian people.
TyJack11x

Pro

I accept your argument, and good luck to you sir.
Debate Round No. 1
evgeniakalogera

Con

Everything started from Maidan, a protest movement against the government. People were convinced for integration in Europe and be against the oligarchs in the government.Armed neo-fascist elements from the West increasingly became involved, further radicalizing the protest, attacking police, occupying government buildings.Hundreds people died in that protest and most of them were killed in one day shots by "unknown snipers" who shot simultaneously the opponents of the government and law enforcement agencies. Yanukovych did not give the order to open fire on unarmed demonstrators, the police didnt have fireguns. Special services of Ukraine said that no one was killed or shot at the "Protest". So who killed people? Check this youtube link to learn the truth https://www.youtube.com...
Finally Yanukovych was convincing to flee on February 21. And what happened after that? The oligarchs replaced by fascist oligarchs. Copying the Maidan protest groups of local Donbass(the east Ukraine) citizens already in February began to occupy government buildings, calling for a referendum on the region's autonomy and possibly its secession and annexation to Russia. These groups were initially unarmed, they were demanding local autonomy from the central government which banned the Russian language in the country.
Kiev's reaction only confirmed the worst fears of the Donbass population. Kiev almost immediately declared the protesters "terrorists" and launched a so-called "anti-terrorist operation" against them. There was no desire for negotiation, but to crush militarily. And since the Ukrainian army was a mess and didnt want fight its own people, the government created and armed a National Guard, consisting of poorly trained volunteers that included ultra-nationalists and neo-fascists.Until today there is genocide of civilians in south-east of Ukraine and the "West" (U.S., EU, NATO) bears a heavy responsibility for its unflinching support and encouragement of the Ukrainian government . Furthmore the West has supported or even created the propaganda of the Kiev government. That propaganda portrays the Russian government as solely responsible for the conflict and is silent about Kiev's own irreconcilability, its serious war crimes against the non-combatant population of Donbass and the serious economic suffering it is imposing on the entire population.In Ukraine, now there is a realization of the West plan to destroy Russia. And Ukraine is most likely a consequence, not a cause. The reason is Russia. Everything is done in order to have close to Russian borders Russophobian state that hate everything Russian, the history, sharing the secular living. Next to Russia should be friendly country, BUT they want Russophobian state.
It is quite obvious that since the fall of the USSR, the U.S.,being supported from Europe, aiming to limit the Russia's geopolitical influence and at surrounding it with unfriendly states. Despite promises made to Mikhail Gorbachev, these states have been integrated into NATO, from which Russia is excluded. That has been the West's policy in Ukraine. The EU's association proposal, which was at the origins of this crisis and which deeply divided country to choose between Europe and Russia.Think logically the only country who gain from this war is America.And is not the first time.
TyJack11x

Pro

I actually see a large amount of strategic value in Ukraine, one thing about Ukraine is it has a dominating position over the Black Sea, the only country that has a better position is Turkey. Also the country has a population of 45,373,000, Russia's population is 143.3 million, to increase your population by 45 million is a very good thing when you need a larger work force. Ukraine's labor force is 22 million strong that is a lot of manpower! If Putin really wants to bring back Russian might Ukraine is a great start. The Crimea region of Ukraine also hosts a large strategic value and that is... force projection. See there is a large naval base in Crimea, Russia's Mediterranean task force operates out of it. Additionally, control of Crimea provides Russia with important strategic defense capabilities. While it may lack modern vessels, the Black Sea Fleet remains capable of addressing naval threats from other states in the region to Russian interests within the Black Sea. Its warships are well equipped with advanced supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles, air defense systems, and torpedoes. Crimea is also home to the BSF 11th Coastal Defense Missile Brigade, which uses the K-300P coastal defense system, armed with the very capable Yakhont anti-ship missile.

Sources:

http://csis.org...

http://countryeconomy.com...

http://www.statista.com...
Debate Round No. 2
evgeniakalogera

Con

I agree in some parts,the Ukraine indeed has a great position over the Black Sea also this country is extremelly rich in natural sources and minerals. It would really help to bring back the Russia if Putin could control all of this. BUT Putin does not aim to dismember Ukraine, nor does he plan to recreate the Soviet empire. Furthmore he is prepared to accept Ukraine's neutrality and its closer economic ties with Europe. What he does not want is a hostile, fascist Western-oriented Ukraine. Russia, shares a 2500 kilometer border with Ukraine.Russia's sensitivity to this question should not be too hard to understand,considering the deep historical, cultural, ethnic, family and economic ties that bind the two societies.
From your argument i got that you support Russia's involvement in the annexation of Crimea. The West condemn this issue as a hypocritical and imperialist aggression but, you didnt see in the News? The vast majority of the population of Crimea, (over 93%)which never felt itself to be Ukrainian, was happy, many even overjoyed, with the annexation. Local Crimean governments have wanted as far back as 1992, only to be rebuffed by Russia. In every national election, Crimeans have voted overwhelmingly for pro-Russian Ukrainian parties. Putin has not explained the annexation in terms of geopolitical interest but the duty to protect Russian populations outside Russia's borders.Maybe it is lie,but what is the most important in this case?Better life for the Crimea's people.Surelly they are in better situation than Ukraine and their economy improved eventually.

Yes you are right it is a large naval base in Crimea which was existed in the years 1976-1996 and reconstructed in 2014. Back in time it was Soviet Union base and they had all the rights to use their property as they wished.Now again Crimea is Russia,so it is officially russian territory,russian army and russian military base.Every country has that and i dont see nothing wrong in that.

Though,to have military base in other country, it needs to have permission of that country.For example US has base overseas in many countries,the reason is avoid war and bring peace. :-D
TyJack11x

Pro

TyJack11x forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
evgeniakalogera

Con

evgeniakalogera forfeited this round.
TyJack11x

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for this debate.

My conclusion is that my opponent shows no facts, he denounced my arguments showing no proof I was wrong. In the end I see no reasons why Putin an ex-KGB agent of the great Soviet Union would not want his country to be powerful again, the KGB were virtually secret police only strong nationalist would join. He also played the same game in Georgia.

"Putin defends the Soviet-era intelligence service to this day. In recent comments to a writers' group in Moscow, he even seemed to excuse its role in dictator Joseph Stalin's brutal purges, saying it would be "insincere" for him to assail the agency where he worked for so many years. Fiercely patriotic, Putin once said he could not read a book by a Soviet defector because "I don't read books by people who have betrayed the Motherland."
(the above post is the third paragraph down, first link)

Links

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

http://www.theguardian.com...
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by airmax1227 2 years ago
airmax1227
Vote by MasterDbater18xray in favor of Pro removed

RFD:

"Pro provided multiple sources for his information con did not label any sources. Pro also used better arguments. I know nothing on this subject before the debate but i am now confident with what i learned. Both made good points but pro drove it home."

Reason for removal: The accounts share an IP which invalidates any vote placed by either account for the other. The members are encouraged to contact me as soon as possible.

-Debate.org Moderator
Posted by RavenDebater 2 years ago
RavenDebater
What do you mean by them being behind it? As in directly involved in their rise, or by sustaining them by passive support?
Posted by debate_power 2 years ago
debate_power
I don't think I would state that Russia is the only one trying to help the Ukrainian people, though.
Posted by debate_power 2 years ago
debate_power
The war is between Ukraine and the separatists, is it not? Russia is hardly behind it; the war is a reaction to a revolution. In any revolution there is a reactionary force. The reactionary force in this case is the separatist one; apparently, because the separatists are against the illegitimate Ukrainian government, they are labeled agents of Moscow. The West admits that it supported the revolution.
No votes have been placed for this debate.