The Instigator
cloebowie
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
VyridosVhasselion
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Is Santa Claus Good for Children?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/26/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 683 times Debate No: 98431
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

cloebowie

Con

This debate is whether Santa Claus is good for children or not. I can tell you why he's not, and you can tell me why he is.

Santa Claus is a bribe. Children are no nicer because of him. The children on his "nice list" are just as fake as he is.

Make the best debater win.
VyridosVhasselion

Pro

It teaches children to be incredulous. It teaches them that just because you are taught something at a young age by authoritative figures with some kind of moral motive, that that doesn't mean that it is necessarily true, or maybe even right.
Debate Round No. 1
cloebowie

Con

Although I applaud my opponent's interpretation of Santa Claus, that would be a misinterpretation, because, although Santa Claus can serve that purpose, he is not intended to.

My opponent essentially agrees that Santa Claus is a lie but argues that lies are to be told because they can be told as warnings of further lies. Not only does this way of thinking encourage paranoia but also discourages trust, which has already been discouraged throughout humanity enough. As much as I really do applaud my opponent's great effort and attempt to justify Santa Claus, he's still guilty, because he's still a lie, and even if the idea of something is good in theory doesn't mean it's good in itself. In other words, just because something can result into something positive does not mean it was positive to begin with; a convicted murderer can serve as an example of what happens when you kill someone, but that doesn't automatically make one a good influence.

Santa Claus is a bad influence because of what he has been intended to influence, which is that one should retain good behavior for the sake of toys, rather than the sake of oneself, nor the sake of others. Santa Claus understates right and wrong by equalizing it to a toy and coal. There are worst consequences in life than coal, and there are better rewards in life than toys. Your toy can be stolen from you, but you can never be robbed of who you are. It's better to be a person of value than a person with value, and if Santa Claus doesn't want to encourage this, then I don't want to encourage Santa Claus.
VyridosVhasselion

Pro

Hehe, I like this, now it's getting interesting.

Firstly I would like to say that lies have to be told to even consider that not everything others say is right. Also I wouldn't go as far as to say that it encourages paranoia, atleast in this case. I think that's a bit far fetched, if you have any examples I would love to hear them. The discouragement of trust is a bit tricky. Trust is a good thing if person xy has your best interests in mind, but can also be harmful if you don't know the motives of person xy. And ultimately children, or rather people in general, have to decide in which group person/statement xy falls. I don't think the existence or non-existence santa claus will harm children in any way, rather I think it's a safe way of teaching to not trust anything at first, and then to determine in which group person/statement xy falls.

To get to your second argument, children will watch and observe the actions of a parent as a guide of how to behave and act. Santa doesn't play a important role in the development of values. Rather it could be seen as motivation for kids to do what they believe is good, and to do what you think is good and right, to actually act according to your values is a healthy thing to learn.

By the way, what I'm writing doesn't always represent how I actually feel towards certain things, atleast in this case. Rather im trying to find the right answer for myself, and that can only happen through comparing different view points. I just discovered this site a day ago and wanted tostart debating, I didnt really care about what. Also great argumentation and eloquence on your half, I'm learning quite a bit here, which is all I could really hope for.
Debate Round No. 2
cloebowie

Con

Welcome to Debate.org!

It's an honor to participate in what I can't believe is your first debate. If I didn't glance at your profile, I would've never known, because you argue with what comes across as years of experience, like you've done this a million times. Seeing how excellent you are, at debates, there are plenty more to come, I'm sure, so I look forward to running into you again.

Saying parents should deceive their children to give them a sample of deception is like saying parents should bully their children to give them a sample of high school. It is not a parent's place to place their child in harm's way. You can give your child a reason to second guess, but don't let that reason be you, because then they will be second guessing you. It's just as crucial to have faith in life as it is to have doubt, and if children can't have faith in their own parents, who they're dependent upon, then they won't know who or what they can have faith in.

The realization of a believed lie can leave a child not only disappointed at the lie but more so at the person who told the lie. There's a difference between believing something and believing someone; there's a difference between being wrong and being wronged. If something disappoints you, you were wrong, but if someone disappoints you, you were wronged, because they were wrong. The difference between life failing to deliver and people failing to deliver is that life never said it would.

Santa Claus is not wrong as he is; it's people trying to make Santa Claus into something he's not that is wrong. I love Santa Claus as the fictional character I know he is; what I hate is him as the spiritual leader that parents want their children to think he is, and speaking of spiritual leaders, I don't think it's wrong to tell someone something that may or may not be true, such as the Son of God, for example, but for someone to tell another to believe something they their self don't even believe, I don't think is right.

As simple as it is to think children are a replica of their parents, it's not that simple. This is why parents like to know who their child is associating with. Because, although maybe not as much, they know any association will leave an impression on their child in one way or another, as well.

You never know who's going to play an important role in a child's life, which is why it's important that all of the roles are genuine, while the role of Santa Claus is not. One of my favorite people is a famous figure I've never met but have modeled my perception of life after. It doesn't matter how distant someone is; if you can observe someone, they can reach you, and if they can reach you, they can touch you, and if they can touch you, they can hurt you.

Giving to receive is not the same as giving to provide. Santa Claus motivates children to give (say, kindness) out of hope that they'll receive, which promotes high hopes and false expectations. Santa Claus incites doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, which is wrong. If you do something "right" for the wrong reasons, then it's wrong.

I couldn't agree more with the disclosure of your argument. I'm really bad though. I have this really annoying tendency, actually, to oppose anything someone says to me and not because I disagree with it, and I'll tell them that, that I'm not disagreeing with them but that I just love contrast and seeing things from every angle they can be looked at. I love having answers, and obviously, you can't have answers without first having questions, so I'm constantly questioning everything, and I love being questioned and having to answer questions I didn't think I had an answer to. Come to think of it, I think I started looking for answers when people started coming to me for answers. I like having information so that I can pass it along, really, because with knowledge comes potential that I don't have the energy to fulfill, so I have no use for it, but I know a lot of people who do, and whenever I gather new information, I'll think of someone and be like, "They need this information, and this information needs them." That's what motivates me to learn; so that I can teach.

Thank you very much for your attention to this matter. I never thought of Santa Claus in that light, so thank you for giving me something to think about. Most people just use Santa Claus as a bribe, but I liked the use of Santa Claus you had in mind so much better. Using Santa Claus, with that in mind, would actually be really cool. Way to make a child grow up introspective.

Make the best debater win.
VyridosVhasselion

Pro

This is probably not what you should do, but I really don't have anything more to say, I think we have a clear winner here.(not me). :D
This was actually a really great first time experience, I don't think I have ever been able to debate about something like this, at least not at this level, in 'real life'!
Looking forward to see you again too!
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by cloebowie 1 year ago
cloebowie
Exactly, haha.

Well said; I couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
Santa is good for children....Why ?...They learn that a big part of life is dreaming....And realy nothing else.
No votes have been placed for this debate.