The Instigator
Karmicjeans
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
c2000e
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is Socialism worth fighting for in America?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 333 times Debate No: 68365
Debate Rounds (5)
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Karmicjeans

Pro

As a libertarian socialist myself, I do believe socialism is a better system than capitalism. However, is it worth fighting for in America, or are people too far into the capitalist system for anything to be done? I say a change is possible, no matter how many centuries of propaganda, people still have the ability to move forward. What about you? Do you disagree with socialism? if so, why?
c2000e

Con

I would like to start out by stating, I don't believe you are fighting for a lost cause. I say this because in the recent years the country has been passing a large amount of bills or other documents that promote socialism in a variety of ways. An example of this is taking people's money that work hard, long hours and taxing them extremely hard so they can pay for people's health care who haven't worked a single day in their life. As a student in school, it may surprise you I would be debating this topic, but the issue of socialism has even invaded high schools in the recent years. In this part of the country, and I'm assuming this happens all over, the school provides free meals for students who "can't afford" to pay for their lunches. Therefore now my family is paying for their lunches. Now, this doesn't seem like a big deal until I hear a huge number of instances of other students openly stating they lied on the forms because their parents didn't want to pay. Now isn't this the ideal of socialism? Take money from the hard working and honest and give it to the homeless who don't even try to work and the people who lie, practically stealing from other families, so they can get free handouts? Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against homeless people, as long as they don't take welfare without trying to get a job to ever get off of it.
Debate Round No. 1
Karmicjeans

Pro

I would just like to point out, you have the wrong idea of what socialism is. Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production, i.e. workers in a factory democratically choosing what to do with what they produce, rather than having 20 people on top who make choices for everyone else and keep 40% of the profits for themselves while thousands of workers have to split the rest among themselves, which is really unfair, considering that workers are the ones who do the actual work. Now, moving on to your next point about welfare programs. You generalize that people who are on welfare are lazy and haven't worked a day in their life, are you really in a position to judge? Assuming you're middle class, you're most likely not. Most people on welfare do have jobs, it's just that they also need to take welfare because, well, minimum wage is just not enough to feed a family. By the way, getting a job as a homeless person is just not easy. At all. To fill out a job application, you need:
a) an address (which homeless people obviously lack)
b) a phone (this too)
Also, you claim that people constantly lie to get welfare, do you have stats to back this up?

http://thinkprogress.org...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
c2000e

Con

I would like to start out by addressing your statement that I "generalize that people who are on welfare are lazy and haven't worked a day in their life..." I apologize if I was unclear in my statements because what I actually meant was that I don't mind if people are on welfare as long as they try to get a job or at least do something. However, if somebody on welfare does nothing but sit around all day, then I will become upset. Once again, I apologize for my statements if they were unclear in any way.
I would also like to apologize for my lack to provide sources. I am fairly new to this website and in my "newbie" way of thinking, I failed to provide sources. Here is a source for the statement I made about lunch money: http://educationnext.org...
Near the beginning of your argument, you claim I have the wrong idea of what socialism is. I completely understand that socialism is collective ownership. This is the problem. People enjoy owning things. If you take the time to explain to people what socialism really is, not just that it's sharing wealth.
To continue onto welfare, if you or I, or anybody else, are on welfare, we should not have kids. That's not an optional statement either. If you cannot support yourself without help, you absolutely should not have kids. having kids o trying to raise a family is iffy on minimum wage too. The issue isn't that minimum wage is too little, it's that people are making bad choices to have kids while on minimum wage. We shouldn't punish people who have struggled to build their own businesses and succeeded because people who haven't had their "big break" yet are making bad choices. However, if you had kids prior to either of these situations, then I have absolutely nothing wrong with somebody being on welfare with kids or working on minimum wage with kids (They probably happen simultaneously).
Homeless people are not completely helpless. There are tons of homeless shelters throughout the country that I personally know would be very glad to let a person use their phone to get a job. Also, this gives the person trying to get a job an address too. Problem solved.
In your previous argument you stated "20 people on top who make choices for everyone else and keep 40% of the profits for themselves while thousands of workers have to split the rest among themselves... is unfair..." Do you have any statistics you can provide to prove this? Also, you can't generalize all CEOs and other top management personnel into a single category of lazy and greedy. I have a feeling most of them don't take as much money as you think and they're definitely not as lazy as you suggest either.
Debate Round No. 2
Karmicjeans

Pro

Karmicjeans forfeited this round.
c2000e

Con

In the current situation, I really have no idea what to do as I have never witnessed someone forfeiting a round prior to this debate.
Thank you for taking your time to have this debate with me.
In conclusion of my argument, I would like to change my original statement. I do think socialism is a lost cause in the United States of America. However, this is only when people are actually educated about both sides of the argument.
Debate Round No. 3
Karmicjeans

Pro

Karmicjeans forfeited this round.
c2000e

Con

c2000e forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Karmicjeans

Pro

Karmicjeans forfeited this round.
c2000e

Con

c2000e forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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