The Instigator
jason122690
Pro (for)
The Contender
Zidane
Con (against)

Is Taiwan an independent country from the PRC ? and if it is should the world/UN recognize it?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/29/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 507 times Debate No: 102808
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (0)

 

jason122690

Pro

From the beginning of the Chinese Civil War, Taiwan had never been controlled by the PRC (The Communist China,) when the Nationalists were defeated by the Communists, they retreated to Taiwan and established a stable democracy there. The US even recognized Taiwan as a country until the 1970s. They withdrew their recognition because they wanted to have a more stable relationship so they could defeat the Soviets, which basically killed the international recognition of Taiwan. Taiwan has a different government than China, a different currency system, and in the point of history, it was never occupied by the Communist forces, thus, I believe that Taiwan should be recognize as an independent sovereign nation.
Zidane

Con

Thank you for your opportunity to give me a chance to write my argument Sir.
Hope we can understand each other, and allow me to refute the sovereignty of Taiwan

For me Indeed, Taiwan had never been controlled by foreign government, but, the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, they (PRC and Taiwan) were both China, just with different ideology, the one is communist, now PRC, and the other is the nationalist, now Taiwan. And just to remind you, Taiwan is a 'government' in exile, they retreat from they're own homeland.

Are they independent from PRC?
Maybe, because they're not dependent to the PRC, but Taiwan is under PRC's 'sphere of influence', under heavy threat, so Taiwan is determinism under PRC's possibilism. No, because Taiwan formed after a civil war, consider the union and confederate, they both have the claim to annex each other, unfortunately, today, the nationalists were smaller than the communists, therefore it is more possible for the PRC to annex Taiwan, not vice versa.

Should the UN recognize it?
By my sympathy, yes, so if one day a foreign country attack Taiwan, the UN will help them.
By my previous argument, not really, please consider my argument that state them as not sovereign.

So that's my argument, and once again, thank you, I'll be waiting for your rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 1
jason122690

Pro

Hi, thank you for accepting my challenge over whether should Taiwan be an independent country from the PRC or not. I understand your argument about how Taiwan cannot be recognized as an independent country but there are a few points that I would like to clarify.

First of all, in your first argument, you said that because both the Nationalists and the Communists claimed the same region, therefore, they cannot coexist with each other. But however, Taiwan has actually loosened up its territorial claims and give up the claims that state that the Nationalists owned both Taiwan and the mainland China. In the 1990s and 2000s, Taiwan has also gone through "Taiwanization," which both the Taiwanese people and the government celebrated Taiwanese as a separate cultural identity apart from just "Chinese." This actually made a lot less aggressive than the PRC in some ways.

The other part of your argument states that because both of the countries made claims about annexing the other, a war between these countries would happen someday and since Taiwan's military forces are comparatively smaller than the PRC's, so Taiwan would definitely lose to the PRC if this war actually happen. Although Taiwan's military forces are indeed smaller and weaker than PRC's, however, if this war actually happened, Taiwan would actually gain another powerful ally, the US. Although the US withdrew its recognition of Taiwan in the 1970s, it also passed the Taiwan Relations Act which states that if China were to violate those principles, the United States, in accord with the Taiwan Relations Act, will help Taiwan defend. The US has also been selling Taiwan defensive weapons for Taiwan to defend itself if China were to violate Taiwan. This would highly discourage the PRC from attacking Taiwan.
(https://en.wikipedia.org...)
(http://www.taipeitimes.com...)

Lastly, I would just like to make an argument from a point of view from Taiwan's history that is that the PRC had actually never controlled Taiwan. After the Japanese withdrew from Taiwan, the Nationalist force entered Taiwan and PRC never touched Taiwan. This can be one of the reasons why Taiwan should belong to the Nationalists, hence, they can become an independent sovereign country.

And Taiwan should definitely be able to join the UN since the UN Charters Chapter II Article 4 states that "Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations." Taiwan should be able to join the UN and have its voices heard and so that they can be able to defend itself. Also, the Nationalists are actually one of the founding members of the UN and the only reason why it was kicked out is that that US wanted to remain a peaceful relationship with the PRC. Therefore, I believe that Taiwan should be able to join UN again.

So, this is my argument. This is my first debate so sorry if I'm too informal or my grammar's horrible. Thank you!
Zidane

Con

Thank you for giving an opportunity to refute your rebuttal. Allow me to explain some of these things.

"Taiwan has actually loosened up its territorial claims", Resource? I haven't found it. And remember, history wrote that the civil still has no peace treaty or armistice, therefore, they both still China, with different regime, until present day.

"if this war actually happened, Taiwan would actually gain another powerful ally". How come? they are 'still' in a civil war until now, this is a matter of 'national' problem, since they are still one China, and if someone intervene, it might be condemned by the 'international media'. The only thing that USA can do, legally, is to send voluntary fighters, not to create a front in China. Remember that UN will hardly intervene since China is one out of five of the permanent 'security council' members, which can veto every single UN intervention attempt.

"PRC had actually never controlled Taiwan". Yeah, but they control Beijing, the city which grant legitimacy over Chinese peoples. Also, Taiwan can not become an independent sovereign country, considering that they're vulnerable at claim over Taiwan itself since it is part of China.

Taiwan can not join the UN, legally, considering the procedure to join the UN are as following :
1) The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter.
2) The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members " China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America " have voted against the application.
3) If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State.
4) Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted.
(Source : http://www.un.org...)
Look at step 2), where the permanent security council has right to veto Taiwan's request for membership, including PRC, therefore, as long as PRC rejects Taiwan's independence, there will be no hope.

And so my rebuttal ends here, Sorry for my bad English, thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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